My bunny may have kidney problems

[Flashy]

How are you Tash? Has talking on here helped?

I come up to Chelsmford at least twice a week at the mo so if I can do anything to help, feel free to ask, I'm more than happy to

 

[tonyshuman]

Here is a link to typical things the vet may test for in a blood test: http://diaglab.vet.cornell.edu/clinpath/modules/chem/sapanel.htm

 

[Bobminda]

Flashy wrote:

How are you Tash? Has talking on here helped?

I come up to Chelsmford at least twice a week at the mo so if I can do anything to help, feel free to ask, I'm more than happy to

Yes it certainly has helped I must admit and thank you for your kind offer !

Thanks again Flashy.

P.s your buns look sooooooo cute, but must be a handful as there are so many :bunnydance:

 

[krsbunny]

Hi all!

With the ongoing dental disease, I would hesitate to hasten toward decreasing calcium. I have done quite a bit of research in the course of updating Rabbit Health in the 21st Century (it will be a while before it's done)... but one of the things I have learned from reading about diet inHarcourt-Brown's Textbook of Rabbit Medicine is that it truly is all about dietary balance ... the ratio of calcium to phosphorus (and to a lesser extent magnesium) is more important than the amount of any of these.

Now I wish I remembered more of high school chemistry!

Kathy Smith

 

[naturestee]

OMG it's Kathy Smith!:shock:

Welcome to the board! Or shall I say welcome to posting? I just noticed your join date.

 

[Maureen Las]

OMG Kathy Smith !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Your books are lying at my feet as a reference

can't believe you're here....

I know there is alot of confusion out there related to calcium and what to do with it with kidney /bladder issues

Welcome to the forum !!!!!!!!!!!

any imput is greatly appreciated

 

[Bobminda]

Update on Bob

took bob in today for a urine test and the reults have shown that there are high levels of protien in the wee to which the vets said is a indication of the kidney disease

However she has said the are meds that could help him and wants him to go back in for a blood test to investigate further

I'll keep you posted

 

[krsbunny]

Very interested in hearing what meds she has to suggest.

Meanwhile, you might start with some herbs: fresh parsley and dandelion are good for kidney function and most bunnies enjoy these. Burdock root and Milk Thistle seeds strengthen both kidneys and liver and are viewed as "treats" here. Uva ursi leaves have are also good for the urinary tract and, again, are eagerly devoured by my kids who need them.

Good luck! Sending good thoughts your way.

Kathy Smith

 

[ra7751]

Wow....I just saw this thread. I am highly concerned that your vet may not be on the top of his game. Is there any way you can post the entire lab? Labs are pieces of the puzzle that need to be put together. I would like to take a look at the other values.

My first thing I would do it to start sub-q fluids. I would really pay attention to his diet. Pellets are the primary reason proteins are high....and if they are high for extended periods of time, stress to the kidneys will result. The thing to watch for when doing the fluids with a possible kidney issue is edema in the chest cavity. Was a titer for EC performed with the labs? If not, I certainly suggest doing one. Spores from EC causes all sorts of renal issues. I would also like to see some rads to see if there is any calcification in the bladder and/or kidneys. I highly suspect that your rabbit might have an elevated glucose level too.

Just a thought about calcium levels. While it is true that rabbits metabolize calcium in an unusual manner, there is a concern called Metabolic Bone Disease. It is always a nutrtional issue. MBD is a combination of factors involving calcium/phosphorus ratios and access to Vitamins D2 & D3. The D vitamins are attainable thru only two methods.....exposure to direct unfiltered sunlight or supplements. MBD can present as all sorts of problems including weight loss, fur loss, dental issues in which the teeth can migrate or even fall outand in extreme cases, severe seizures as well as other clinical presentations. Calcium is a vital part of a healthy body....but like all other elements, in proper levels.

Has a full urinalysis been performed? If a kidney issue is in play, we need to know what is in that urine. The information provided by the blood labs and the urinalysis should bring things more into focus. And again, if possible, either post the labs or send them directly to me....my e-mail is listed.

In the meantime, make sure hydration is good....and remember that leafy greens provide a lot of hydration. You might want to add some canned pumpkin to his diet (NOT pie filling....canned pumpkin_ This is highly nutritious and many rabbits will eat it willingly. If you have some high quality alfalfa hay available, crush the leaves into as small a pieces as you can and mix in with the pumpkin. Feed a variety of high nutritional greens such as kale, dandelion greens and carrot tops. I would have no problem with your rabbit receiving an injection of B Comp ( a vitamin) as this usually helps to stimulate their appetite and makes them generally feel better.

Try to get those labs for us.

Randy

 

[Bobminda]

krsbunny wrote:

Very interested in hearing what meds she has to suggest.

Meanwhile, you might start with some herbs: fresh parsley and dandelion are good for kidney function and most bunnies enjoy these. Burdock root and Milk Thistle seeds strengthen both kidneys and liver and are viewed as "treats" here. Uva ursi leaves have are also good for the urinary tract and, again, are eagerly devoured by my kids who need them.

Good luck! Sending good thoughts your way.

Kathy Smith

Thanks Kathy

I'll give those ago, not sure where to get the burdock root and milk thistle seeds from thou ?

 

[Bobminda]

ra7751 wrote:

Wow....I just saw this thread. I am highly concerned that your vet may not be on the top of his game. Is there any way you can post the entire lab? Labs are pieces of the puzzle that need to be put together. I would like to take a look at the other values.

My first thing I would do it to start sub-q fluids. I would really pay attention to his diet. Pellets are the primary reason proteins are high....and if they are high for extended periods of time, stress to the kidneys will result. The thing to watch for when doing the fluids with a possible kidney issue is edema in the chest cavity. Was a titer for EC performed with the labs? If not, I certainly suggest doing one. Spores from EC causes all sorts of renal issues. I would also like to see some rads to see if there is any calcification in the bladder and/or kidneys. I highly suspect that your rabbit might have an elevated glucose level too.

Just a thought about calcium levels. While it is true that rabbits metabolize calcium in an unusual manner, there is a concern called Metabolic Bone Disease. It is always a nutrtional issue. MBD is a combination of factors involving calcium/phosphorus ratios and access to Vitamins D2 & D3. The D vitamins are attainable thru only two methods.....exposure to direct unfiltered sunlight or supplements. MBD can present as all sorts of problems including weight loss, fur loss, dental issues in which the teeth can migrate or even fall outand in extreme cases, severe seizures as well as other clinical presentations. Calcium is a vital part of a healthy body....but like all other elements, in proper levels.

Has a full urinalysis been performed? If a kidney issue is in play, we need to know what is in that urine. The information provided by the blood labs and the urinalysis should bring things more into focus. And again, if possible, either post the labs or send them directly to me....my e-mail is listed.

In the meantime, make sure hydration is good....and remember that leafy greens provide a lot of hydration. You might want to add some canned pumpkin to his diet (NOT pie filling....canned pumpkin_ This is highly nutritious and many rabbits will eat it willingly. If you have some high quality alfalfa hay available, crush the leaves into as small a pieces as you can and mix in with the pumpkin. Feed a variety of high nutritional greens such as kale, dandelion greens and carrot tops. I would have no problem with your rabbit receiving an injection of B Comp ( a vitamin) as this usually helps to stimulate their appetite and makes them generally feel better.

Try to get those labs for us.

Randy

Thanks Randy, I'll try and get the report sent to you. Ive got to make a appointment tomorrow for the blood test so i'll ask for the results then !

 

[ra7751]

I would urge extreme caution in using holistic/herbal/eastern type treatments. They may have unknown contraindications with conventional medicine. I am not against holistic meds at all, but not at the same time as conventional. One of my vet clinics use holistic treatments and itis interesting....but it is notused in conjuction with their conventional treatments. Andholistics can often influence false levels in labs. In this case and at this time, I would avoid holistics. I would possibly use them once the medical condition is resolved just as a supplement to a healthy lifestyle. But at this point, I suggest avoiding any holistic type treatment until you get a proper resolution to the issues at hand.

Randy

 

[naturestee]

Did they do a blood test too? Xrays or ultrasound? Any sign of infection in the urine?

Sub-q fluids are often used to help flush the kidneys of toxins. You can see discussions of this in Myheart's thread on Luna. If you can find them, fresh or frozen cranberries are great for the urinary tract and some studies are finding them to have a preventative effect on infections in the kidneys/bladder. Unsweetened cranberry juice would also be a good choice.

Kathy, where do you find those whole versions of the herbal remedies you mentioned?Dandelion greens are in some grocery stores around here but I wouldn't know where to get Uva ursi or burdock root in the middle of winter.

Also, while reading up on dietary treatments for cats and dogs in kidney failure, I've seen mentions for supplementing B vitamins which tend to be lost by damaged kidneys- something to ask your vet about so you could get a proper dosage. It also mentioned that Omega 3 fatty acids seem tobe helpful although they're not sure why yet. That can be supplemented for rabbits with flax seeds or flax oil.

All the best to you and little Bob!

 

[Bobminda]

naturestee wrote:

Did they do a blood test too? Xrays or ultrasound? Any sign of infection in the urine?

Sub-q fluids are often used to help flush the kidneys of toxins. You can see discussions of this in Myheart's thread on Luna. If you can find them, fresh or frozen cranberries are great for the urinary tract and some studies are finding them to have a preventative effect on infections in the kidneys/bladder. Unsweetened cranberry juice would also be a good choice.

Kathy, where do you find those whole versions of the herbal remedies you mentioned?Dandelion greens are in some grocery stores around here but I wouldn't know where to get Uva ursi or burdock root in the middle of winter.

Also, while reading up on dietary treatments for cats and dogs in kidney failure, I've seen mentions for supplementing B vitamins which tend to be lost by damaged kidneys- something to ask your vet about so you could get a proper dosage. It also mentioned that Omega 3 fatty acids seem tobe helpful although they're not sure why yet. That can be supplemented for rabbits with flax seeds or flax oil.

All the best to you and little Bob!

Hi,

There was no mention of any infection in the urine, Ive got to make a appointment tomorrow for the blood test & No xrays or ultrasounds have been done as yet.

It seems a lot of people are questioning the level of expertise from my vet so i think as a matter of course i will get a second opinion from another vet before any treatment is started.

Also just wanted to say to you all a BIG THANK YOU for all your comments and advise.

I'll post more info as and when i have it

Tash

 

[Bobminda]

Hi,

Picked up bob's new medication this afternoon (Prilium 75mg)

It's not cheap either, £50 for a small bottle.

He has got to have 0.1ml for 30 days and should help withthe protein problem.

It's appartently designed for dogs but Rabbit's are also benefitting form this at lower doses.

He will have a blood test in 3 weeks time.

Tash

 

[Flashy]

I've not heard of Prilium, but hopefully someone will nand will chime in, but I hope both you and Bob are doing ok.

x

 

[naturestee]

Interesting medicine choice. What does the vet think this will do for thekidneys? The info I'm finding says it's an ACE inhibitor which has the effect of decreasing blood pressure by dilating the blood vessels. Maybe to increase flow to the kidneys?

Let us know how he does on it.

http://www.prilium.co.uk/

http://www.noahcompendium.co.uk/V_AOk-toquinol_UK_Ltd/Prilium_75mg__150mg_and_300mg/-32042.html

 

[Bobminda]

naturestee wrote:

Interesting medicine choice. What does the vet think this will do for thekidneys? The info I'm finding says it's an ACE inhibitor which has the effect of decreasing blood pressure by dilating the blood vessels. Maybe to increase flow to the kidneys?

Let us know how he does on it.

http://www.prilium.co.uk/

http://www.noahcompendium.co.uk/V_AOk-toquinol_UK_Ltd/Prilium_75mg__150mg_and_300mg/-32042.html

Shejust said that it should help with the protein levels, the way the vet was talking it seems a few other rabbits have benefitted from it, your right it may help the flow to kidneys.

We'll have to wait and see.

She did say that we need to keep a close eye on him incase the blood pressure drops and starts getting dizzy/light-headed to which we should stop the drops.

tash

x

 

[tonyshuman]

Maybe the vet found that Bob had high blood pressure? If so, high blood pressure can damage the kidneys. http://kidney.niddk.nih.gov/kudiseases/pubs/highblood/

Putting him on this medicine will keep his kidneys from getting damaged if high blood pressure is the concern. In the interim while blood tests are not available to determine the cause of the extra drinking and protein in urine, this can preserve kidney function. What I've read about humans with proteins in the urine is that it is an EARLY indicator of kidney failure. http://kidney.niddk.nih.gov/kudiseases/pubs/proteinuria/

 

[Bobminda]

Hi All,

Just wanted to update all those who posted messages about my BOB.

He has stopped losing weight and has actually gained weight which the vet seems to be a sign that his protein levels have improved.

He is booked in for a blood test next week to confirm a few things but it seems the med has done the trick !

Tash X