my 9 rabbits :3

[Seraphina]

Circle wrote:

If an accident will happen, you can't stop it.

And as for pet thieves,

thats the difference. if an accident will happen, you can't stop it. but you can. Which is what we're all talking about with neglegance and responsibility.

and if your pet is at large, meaning off your property, then by law it really isn't someone stealing your pet.

 

[Pipp]

Seraphina's last two posts are excellent and you should pay attention to them.

While I agree that cooping her up in a cage isn't good, neither is letting her run free in the neighbourhood.

Rabbits breed like rabbits because less than 20% make it to the first year in their natural environment. One in fifty might make it to five. Nature designs them to protect themselves, eg: not showing signs of weakness or illness even when very sick, but nature also designs them to be eaten.

The wildlife in the neighbourhood will become aware of her over time. And trust me, it is no fun for a rabbit to be hunted, she'll love exploring in the day time but she'll also be in constant terror from dusk to dawn when you can't see her.

Please at least secure your yard and set up protection elements as suggested.


sas :expressionless

 

[Circle]

You said that "Wisconsin is home to some of the most deadly snakes in the country. And the rarest."

There are only 2 poisonous snakes in WI and none near at all where we are. They're far west in WI on that map in the site you gave me.

And I don't understand how predators will get to her overtime when the predators do know that there are A LOT of wild rabbits in our neighborhood. The smell of rabbit would already be everywhere. Her scent would blend in with every other rabbit scent.

 

[kuniklos]

Two that are deadly to people. That says nothing of the other varieties, of which do not need a toxin to kill their prey. And the two you mention are purely concentrated in those regions. Just two of 14 species.

It's not just smell they have, they have heat sensors to find their prey. These are pits on the sides of their face that helps them lock onto the tiniest bit of warmth of appropriate size. Prey can hide, and stand still, but a snake can still find them.

 

[Kipcha]

I would like to mention that Oreo, the rabbit we took in off the street, was terrified of people and would not let strangers near him. The owner said if we could catch him, we could have him.

Rabbits do tend to run under cars when someone comes, and it only takes a butterfly net to catch an 'uncatchable' rabbit.

No matter how smart she is, you have to remember... She's a rabbit. It IS entirely possible to catch one. And it would not be "thieving" if your pretty much letting her roam outside. In all honesty, it would be a rescue.

 

[Happi Bun]

Seraphina wrote:

Circle wrote:

If an accident will happen, you can't stop it.

And as for pet thieves,

thats the difference. if an accident will happen, you can't stop it. but you can. Which is what we're all talking about with neglegance and responsibility.

and if your pet is at large, meaning off your property, then by law it really isn't someone stealing your pet.

:yeahthat:

It is very irresponsible to let your pet rabbit live freely outside. Not to mention could probably be viewed as abandonment or as a stray if Animal Control finds out. I'm not saying that to be mean, please understand. I rescued three domestic rabbits that their owner dumped outside so they were running around freely. They were at the mercy of the elements, wildlife, and people. Is that a good existence? No. These animals are not wild, they should not have to fend for themselves. One of the rabbits rescued had a severe case of ear mites, all of them were pretty banged up and dirty and two of the three were underweight.

I agree completely with rabbits living indoors, but I also know under certain circumstances they are best housed outside (feral rabbits being a good example). However, under no circumstances do I think they should just be 'let go' to fend for themselves. They should be kept in some kind of enclosure that has places for them to get out of the elements and be safe from predators. They also still require a human to provide fresh water and proper nutrition.

:twocents

 

[Circle]

Happi Bun wrote:

Seraphina wrote:

Circle wrote:

If an accident will happen, you can't stop it. 

And as for pet thieves,

thats the difference.  if an accident will happen, you can't stop it.  but you can.  Which is what we're all talking about with neglegance and responsibility.

and if your pet is at large, meaning off your property, then by law it really isn't someone stealing your pet.

:yeahthat:

It is very irresponsible to let your pet rabbit live freely outside. Not to mention could probably be viewed as abandonment or as a stray if Animal Control finds out. I'm not saying that to be mean, please understand. I rescued three domestic rabbits that their owner dumped outside so they were running around freely. They were at the mercy of the elements, wildlife, and people. Is that a good existence? No. These animals are not wild, they should not have to fend for themselves. One of the rabbits rescued had a severe case of ear mites, all of them were pretty banged up and dirty and two of the three were underweight.

I agree completely with rabbits living indoors, but I also know under certain circumstances they are best housed outside (feral rabbits being a good example). However, under no circumstances do I think they should just be 'let go' to fend for themselves. They should be kept in some kind of enclosure that has places for them to get out of the elements and be safe from predators. They also still require a human to provide fresh water and proper nutrition.

:twocents

You obviously didn't read my other posts where I said I ALWAYS provide food and water for my rabbit. T.T And my mom's even getting her Revolution for kittens for her fleas the next time she stops at the pet store.

 

[Circle]

My rabbit wouldn't run under cars. She'd run into someone else's back yard and keep going. Rabbits can run for a 1/2 mile straight. I doubt anyone would go to the trouble of hopping fences and everything for a 1/2 mile to catch her. And she's much too quick to just be chased down.

I also know quite a lot about how snakes hunt their prey. Brownie wouldn't even go near one. She's afraid of even a squirrel!

 

[Dustiechick]

Circle, perhaps you could have the best of both worlds? You could still let brownie go outside and enjoy herself but without the worry of her safety. I have set up a weighted mosquito net (kind of like a tent-bough it at Canadian tire but it would probably have something similar at home depot.) and put a lawn chair inside for supervision brownie will still be able to explore a fair distance as long as you get a large size.

 

[Bunnycat]

I know we've had some trouble with personal attacks, and I don't mean to be rude... I know you care for your rabbit a lot, but if you really do, you would do something more to keep her safe.

To say that your rabbit "lives for danger" is a little ridiculous. You can't just assume that your rabbit won't run under a car, or won't get near a snake just because she's smart. Desperate times call for desperate measures, and if she is in trouble and the only thing she can do is run under a car, she just might. What if she doesn't see or notice the snake? You can't keep claiming that it won't happen simply because she is an intelligent rabbit. Almost anything can happen.

I'm not going to get into religion, but you cannot say that your god will protect her from everything... what about all of the other bunnies you lost? What if your god put you here as a means of protecting your rabbit? That could be its way of helping her.

Simply because something bad has not happened in only two weeks does NOT mean that something won't happen. A new predator could move into the area, and a million other things can happen. You can never know, and you can never be sure.

You could at the very least block off the hole that leads to the outside world. You can also give her a hutch and give her free time to run around when you're out there to watch her. You seem smart, and the forum members are trying to work with you to help your rabbit, and I really hope that you put serious thought into what we are saying.

 

[plasticbunny]

Save your breath, guys. This person is clearly more interested in being stubborn and hard headed at the risk of her pet's life, than she is in listening to the MANY well-educated opinions of those who have tried to help her.

It's not like we have healthy, happy rabbits that have lived long and fulfilling lives... Sometimes at the risk of our own furniture, money, and sanity. And it's not as though this person has already lost three baby rabbits at very young agesas a result ofridiculously neglectful behavior. Who are we to judge?

It doesn't matter that rabbits are nature's prey and just about anything can and will eat them. Clearly this person's rabbit is a mutant rabbit who is not appealing to any predators and could take on an army if it had to - oh, and ENJOY the fight, because she's a DAREDEVIL. Hmmm, maybe this person should capture and bring in some big scary hawks or snakes or cats or dogs or raccoons or ETC, ETC, ETC, the list goes on and on. It would be SO MUCH FUN for this bunny to race around and try dodge attacks from these fast predators. Gee, mom sure does know what's best.

But, like I said, this conversation is so beyond pointless. Clearly it takes more than 3 deaths at the hand of stupidity to open some peoples eyes. She won't listen, she just wants to be right... And she's willing to use every dumb excuse to justify this horrible display of animal cruelty.

"Oh, God WANTS my rabbit to live outside. He'll watch out for her and keep her safe."

Maybe all of these bunny deaths is God telling you that you're too immature to own pets.

"My bunny LIKES running for her life - she's a daredevil, just like me!"

How can this even be dignified by a response?

Sigh. I'm so sad for this rabbit. I'm sorry, Brownie, we tried. Guess I'll keep an eye on the Rainbow Bridge section, I'm sure that's where I'll see you next.

 

[Kipcha]

Have you ever seen her in a situation outside the yard? Because every time you have posted, it has been talking about her coming up to you in the yard. But can you really guarantee her behviour outside of it?

I don't care how smart your rabbit is, a frightened rabbit is going to hide under something low and with a solid overheard protection. A car offers the perfect place, and I have seen many fightened rabbits wandering around outside and every single one makes a beeline for under a car. The rabbit gets frightened and instinct takes over, just like a terrified person.

Not to mention running half a mile straight, absoloutly terrified, is just asking for a heart attack. Speaking as someone who trains rabbits to have more stamina then most, just because a rabbit CAN do something, it does not mean they SHOULD, especially when it is done in terror.

I have two rabbits that, in my humble opinion, are bigger daredevils then Brownie sounds. Jabberwocky is just crazy energetic, loves bouncing around and nipping things (Not people, just things) and having a jolly time. I have to be careful because when I'm in my room, he tries to jump out the window. We're on the second level.

Babbitty is the definition of a daredevil. I take him for walks outside, and he will literally try and chase cars. He fears absoloutly nothing.

Just because they are daredevils and spirited, does not mean they are suited for a life outdoors. I feel more protective over them because of it.

However, her personality seems to contradict some things you say. You say she's a daredevil and would not be afraid to fight something, yet say she can run half a mile to get away because she's smart enough to be afraid of it. It's just... Odd.

I strongly feel I know a little more about how a frightened rabbit reacts, I have taken a fair few rabbits off the streets. Buttercup, Thumper, Skittles, Oreo and plenty others have lived free range outside in the past, and yet do far better indoors.

Question, why do you believe she was "miserable" downstairs? Because to me, when you describe her personality when she was down there, it sounded like a completely happy bunny. She may not have been happy in the cage itself, but you could solve that by merely securing the yard.

I personally think you are attaching far too many human emotions to your rabbit, such as her holding a grudge against you for a long period of time. She may be a little grumpy at first, she will adjust. She's a rabbit. No matter what personality, intelligence or situation, she is a rabbit and will always be a rabbit.

 

[TheJadeRabbit]

Circle wrote:

I also know quite a lot about how snakes hunt their prey. Brownie wouldn't even go near one. She's afraid of even a squirrel!

Enlighten us? I am asking. What do you know about how snakes hunt there prey? Just a question.

 

[Circle]

First of all, a personality is something that in fact does contradict itself a lot. We're all people here. You should know exactly what I mean. Brownie, yes, is a daredevil, but she's also afraid of strangers and other non-rabbit animals. I never said Brownie was fearless. And I have seen her outside in other people's backyards. I've seen her fight wild rabbits and been chased by the neighbors (kids) across the street. She gets away fine. I have also seen raccoons, possums, and cats. She's still fine. And Brownie loves good fights and in my house she does things that would hurt her just for the thrill of it. She seems to live on thrills. An example is when I turn the vacuum on. She would be afraid, but at the same time thrumming with excitement. It's like she's trying to see how far she could go. She can't stay in the house; she can't be litter-trained. And she can't stay in her cage; she wants to run around. I guess we could do the mosquito netting thing around our fence, but I don't know how that would work out. And I believe that rabbits do have many human emotions. I think they can be hurt, embarrassed, contempt, shy, proud, everything. They certainly know everything going on around them.


And as for snakes. I know they see heat and they sense the vibration of animals through the ground, even if it's not moving. Nothing can sneak up on a snake because they'll sense you, even in the air. Their sense of smell is incredible and that's how some track down prey they've poisoned. I know all that and more or less. I watch a lot of animal planet.

 

[Bunnycat]

Oh jeez. Everything we have said is proving to be wasted.
You say that you've seen her fight wild rabbits and be chased by kids and that she's fine... Do you really want her to have to fight wild rabbits? Do you want her to be chased around and scared? Who's to say that nothing will happen if she's gotten away a couple of times? What happens when a wild rabbit or person or other animal really hurts her?

How do you know if a rabbit lives on thrills or is an adrenaline junkie? You're just guessing and giving her qualities that are much too human. Yeah, rabbits are smart, but they're not humans.
Of course a rabbit doesn't want to stay in their cage, and they shouldn't stay in a cage all day. That's why a lot of people let them free roam for at least several hours a day and put them back in their cage at night for safety.

"And I have seen her outside in other people's backyards"
Your rabbit shouldn't be in someone else's yard... Brownie would be so much safer if you at least confined her to your own yard.

 

[Pharfly]

This thread should have been locked a long time ago, since we are all just wasting our time. Well time too go and cuddle my 2 buns, who are safe in their cages inside my home

 

[Happi Bun]

Circle wrote:

You obviously didn't read my other posts where I said I ALWAYS provide food and water for my rabbit. T.T And my mom's even getting her Revolution for kittens for her fleas the next time she stops at the pet store.

My apologies, apparently I missed where you put that. I hope that is not only thing you took from my post though. You seem to be ignoring or brushing off the BIG issues. That fact nothing bad has happened to her YET means very little. Everything is fine until the moment it's not.

People RESCUE rabbits that are dumped outside for a reason. It is not a better life for them, their life span drops dramatically, and they often die horrific deaths by predators or illness.

I'm completely baffled why you refuse to listen to the experienced members! You could build her a big hutch or pen outside and that would be a million times better than just letting her roam free.

 

[Kipcha]

I know of people around who wait for animals to wander into they're yard (People are going to notice a rabbit frequenting in their yard, I would), lock the gate, and let their dog lose. It is NOT safe for your rabbit to be in other people's yards. People are the most dangerous factor here.

Personally, if I saw a domestic rabbit coming into my yard, I would catch it and keep it. You do not need her to go under a car if she's in a fenced yard. There, she is EXTREMELY easily caught because there is nowhere for her to go. Even if I knew who it belonged to, I would keep it because it just isn't a responsible way to handle a pet. And I am sure that there are others here who would too.

By the way, when you say "First of all, a personality is something that in fact does contradict itself a lot. We're all people here. You should know exactly what I mean." you're right, we're people. But BROWNIE is NOT. She is a rabbit.

By the way, you said there were no dangerous predators in your area, and then turn around and talk about how you've seen racoons and cats. News flash, they're dangerous too.

 

[Seraphina]

you say she's a daredevil but she'd Never approach a snake
you say she's a thrill seeker but she's scared of squirrals?

Squirralsare the least of Brownies problems.

Kipcha's post is perfect. A 'daredevil' rabbit needs more protection because they're more likely to get hurt. But your rabbit doesn't sound like a daredevil at all being scared of squirrals and not approaching snakes. Your rabbit doesn't sound like a thrillseeker when it thumps at the vacuum cleaner. Rabbits run and thump because they're scared. Not to be confused with Binkying when they're happy, which sounded like what your rabbit was doing when it was living in your basement! where you claim it was miserable.

People's personalities do not contradict with what they do. your being a teen(which i know you are), over anaylizing your rabbit's 'feelings' and what she wants. She's a rabbit. Animals live on one thing.. instincts. They don't hold grudges, they don't seek danger.

And lastly... guess which animals are most frequently hit by cars... Deer and rabbit. your rabbit is not any smarter than the hundreds of wild rabbits that die every year from cars.

plasticbunny and pharfly are right... this thread should be locked. We're all upset with your rabbit and your choices. I hope you choose the mosquito netting, or plug the holes your rabbit can escape.

Running = scared
Binkying = happy

your rabbit runs outside, and binkys in your basement. you can't get any more obvious than that.

 

[Circle]

Feral rabbits live a bad life because they're COMPLETELY on their own. My rabbit isn't. She's still gets food, water, and help with fleas and ticks. She isn't "incredibly skinny" or about to die any minute. And if she can get IN a yard, she can just as easily get OUT. No one would be able to lock her in their fence. If it was that easy, I could do it. She's safe from all people. Including those kids that were chasing her. And just because Brownie's a rabbit doesn't mean she's not complex. Sorry for thinking of her highly and not reducing her down to "just an animal." When I said "dangerous animals" I meant coyotes and mountain lions. I'm aware that there are smaller animals that pose a threat to rabbits as well. My rabbit is a daredevil in her own way. She seeks thrills but she isn't outrageously stupid. She was happy in the basement, but she's not allowed down there or in our house anymore if she's not in a cage, and that's the problem here. Outside she's happier than if she were caged, and even happier than she was inside, where I'm pretty sure she was bored a lot of the time. My rabbit did hold a grudge against us. She was mad for months. That's how I've learned to respect her and not do things she doesn't like, like pick her up or anything else like that. My rabbit is afraid of cars and knows how to look both ways before crossing the street. Don't say rabbits don't do this, because they do. So do other animals crossing by themselves; I'm not making this stuff up. Some apparently don't, but she's not one of them.

How do I lock this thread?