Metacam (Lara RIP)

[TreasuredFriend]

I'm learning as I go too, BunnieRosanna, with our sanctuary bunch and disabled buns.

Would your vet be available for consultation by Phone as to the extra bolster dose of metacam?

Karla receives a bolster dose of metacam. Our vet felt it would not impair Karla's overall health or be damaging considering Karla is in continuing hospice care. Hope that helps.

At first I speculated WRT e.c. with her leg out? Nerve and bladder concerns sounds logical. Hope that myheart can advise on her boy Patrick.

Being by her side is a comfort, and seeking help from a vet. Hugs and ray:s.

 

[BunnieRosanna]

tonyshuman wrote:

I don't know for sure as I have only had to give Metacam in one situation--post-neuter. It is supposed to last for 12 hours, so I would play it by ear as far as the pet sitter goes. If she's acting like she's in pain, then go for it. I would expect her to actually need an additional dose nearer the 8 hour after the last dose mark, rather than in the middle of the day.

Thank you so much tonyshuman - I didn't realise it only had a 12 hour time on it!

To keep her "topped-up" I agree another dose in the AM will help.

Igive her dose with her dinner at 8pm so she can rest during the night when we do, what I may do (once I have discussed with vet) is to give another dose (TBC) inthe morning (8am) before I go to work.

 

[TreasuredFriend]

tonyshuman wrote:

I don't know for sure as I have only had to give Metacam in one situation--post-neuter. It is supposed to last for 12 hours, so I would play it by ear as far as the pet sitter goes. If she's acting like she's in pain, then go for it. I would expect her to actually need an additional dose nearer the 8 hour after the last dose mark, rather than in the middle of the day.

Watch Lara's facial expression. Good input from tonyshuman ^

 

[BunnieRosanna]

TreasuredFriend wrote:

I'm learning as I go too, BunnieRosanna, with our sanctuary bunch and disabled buns.

Would your vet be available for consultation by Phone as to the extra bolster dose of metacam?

Karla receives a bolster dose of metacam. Our vet felt it would not impair Karla's overall health or be damaging considering Karla is in continuing hospice care. Hope that helps.

At first I speculated WRT e.c. with her leg out? Nerve and bladder concerns sounds logical. Hope that myheart can advise on her boy Patrick.

Being by her side is a comfort, and seeking help from a vet. Hugs and ray:s.

Thank you again TreasuredFriend (quite literally :innocent)...I am seeing the vet Wed 3rd so will seek support for a top-up of metacam before I leave for work in the AM.

Feel so guilty I am gone for so long in the day but would not go in if she was going downhill....I have a very understanding boss ray:

I Googled WRT as I do not know what that is? do you mind enlightening me?

Thank you!

 

[TreasuredFriend]

My apologies for abbreviating in forum lingo.
WRT is with regards to.
HTH is hope this helps.
TLC = what you are giving to Lara. Tender Loving Care. :hug::hearts

Glad you have an understanding boss.

 

[myheart]

Sorry I am unable to advise with regards to Patrick. His tumor was free-floating and encapsulated enough that it did not spread and did not require pain-meds.

I did however, need meds for Luna when she was diagnosed with kidney stones. She started out on metacam, and when it was found that the number of stones had increased, she was prescribed Tramadol in a compound form.

I would say that you shouldn't be too afraid of trying to make Lara as comfortable as possible. I was so thankful that Luna had something as strong as Tramadol "to take the edge off" of her pain. From whatI've heard, kidney stones hurt like heck in humans, and I don't even want to think of the pain Luna endured.

You will know when Lara needs more, and by the sounds of it, she may already need it with her back leg troubles. It is good to hear that she is still eating, drinking, and has a good attitude. TreasuredFriend always says to watch for the 3 A's; Appetite, Attitude, and Affection. If any of these are lacking, then you will know that it is time to change something for her, and that will probably include the strength of her pain meds.

Don't be afraid of the possibility of giving her Tramadol. Metacam will work up to a point, but beyond that point, Tramadol will probablybe the safest. If she gets too sleepy on it, ask the vet for a weaker dose. Luna had no side-effects from it, and was able to hang out with Patrick and Zappa, as well as get into trouble as usual. Every-bun is going to be different in how they handle any drug/pain med anyhow, so you won't know how Lara will be with it until you try.

Hope I've helped a little. So sorry you have to go through this. Knowing you're going to lose your wonderful friend sometime, anytime, isextremely difficult to deal with. It was that way for me with Luna because the vet warned me that kidney stones in rabbits are always fatal. It's the comfort-care and love that makes the difference. We on the forum are all here for you to talk with. Please don't ever feel that you are alone in any of your heartache and decisionswith Lara.

ray:for Lara and the time she has with you. Enjoy each other, love each other, and learn from each other. You will be surprised at the things Lara has to tell you.

myheart

 

[BunnieRosanna]

TreasuredFriend wrote:

My apologies for abbreviating in forum lingo.
WRT is with regards to.
HTH is hope this helps.
TLC = what you are giving to Lara. Tender Loving Care. :hug::hearts

Glad you have an understanding boss.

Thank you.... I need to get with the program

 

[BunnieRosanna]

myheart, thank you so much for that advise I am very grateful for you insight as you have been through the decisions and the heart ache. It's incredibly painful watching Lara deteriorate, your words are so kind.

I hear more bad things about these drugs than good - all I want to do is ensure she is not in pain rather than create nasty side effects. To try Tramadol is to know.

I liked the advice you and TreasuredFriend gave about the three A's. So far, so good on all accounts. I get lots of love & nose licks still and even a bit of rexy attitude (ear flicks of annoyance) if I am fussing around her face too much which is proper Lara personality.

I will keep the three A's close to me over the next days and weeks.

I am thinking a lot about when I know she will be ready to go or, if I will have to make the difficult decision to put her to sleep.

I wish she will go peacefully and quickly, I do not want to be calling the vets out to have her put down if I think her pain is enduring without the pain med's doing anything. Only time will tell.

Thank you everyone :innocentI will update again soon.

 

[myheart]

It's never a problem to offer support. I don't know how I would have made it through all of the sub-q's I had to give to Luna if it weren't for the support of other forum members. I still hate to do sub-q's, but am very glad I know how to give them.

When you are in tears and feel like you can't do it anymore, this is the place to come to for someone to say that you are doing a good job with Lara's care and that she needs you to be strong. I don't know how many times I had to hear/read it to make sure Luna received the fluids she needed.

Be strong for Lara, and she will give you all the smiles and joy you need to make it through tomorrow. :hug2:

myheart

 

[Sweetie]

Metacam is every 24 hours, that is why they say to give it once a day. Buprenex is every 12 hours. You can give buprenex twice a day. But metacam, you can only give once a day.

But in the case of Lara, I think that every 12 hours, metacam can be given if Lara is experiencing more pain. But always consult with your vet first before giving more pain meds.

 

[BunnieRosanna]

Thanks, Sweetie - the number of hours before medication can wear off varies.

We will consult the vet about it. I did give her 0.05 with her pellets and salad this morning. Even though such a small amount, it will keep it topped up in her system for her sleep hours so she can be comfortable.

 

[tonyshuman]

I think it also depends on the way the drug is formulated. I have gotten it in a 12 hour formula.

http://www.medirabbit.com/Safe_medication/Analgesics/safe_analgesics.htm

Its half-life is 15-20 hours.

 

[Sweetie]

BunnieRosanna wrote:

Thanks, Sweetie - the number of hours before medication can wear off varies.

We will consult the vet about it. I did give her 0.05 with her pellets and salad this morning. Even though such a small amount, it will keep it topped up in her system for her sleep hours so she can be comfortable.

You are welcome! I hope that Lara stays nice and comfy.

 

[TreasuredFriend]

Karla's discomfort or mobility spine & easement-relief from one Buprenex injection lasts longer than a daily metacam dose.

:confused2: for what it's worth,

 

[BunnieRosanna]

Karla issuch a beautiful girl and has such great care - does she grind her teeth and shiver when you know it's time to give more pain meds?

We have some pain med injections (pre-measured) in the fridge from Lara's last horrendous statsis issue and wil only use them in an emergency i.e. if it's during the early hours. The vet gave us about 4 injections to take away with us.

It begins with b, like buperphorine?? spelt wrong...

 

[tonyshuman]

Buprenex is the brand name for buprenorphine

 

[BunnieRosanna]

tonyshuman wrote:

Buprenex is the brand name for buprenorphine

That's the one! thanks!

 

[rabbit_friend]

From what I've read, most vets would add famotidine or sucralfate with daily long-term metacam to reduce risk of ulcers. From my and friends' experiences, females seem to have more trouble with stomach pain from metacam. My rabbit gets .75 ml for 10 pounds (but only when she needs it, not every day).

 

[TreasuredFriend]

All the info is beneficial to bun parents. Thanks myheart and everyone for posting.

BunnieRosanna, Karla's facial expressions is what I rely on most. I can tell when her management pain med is wearing off. Yes, she will shiver a bit, and lightly grind her teeth after therapy sessions or mucho scooting about the bedroom floor. The eyes are the indicator. Also if she's uncomfortable feeling, she will grunt.

The Special Needs' book suggests sulcrafate. Our vet suggested it also.

Personal experience: Karla was getting or had taken a combo of things like tramadol, gabapentin, amantadine, plus sulcrafate to coat her stomach and ward off ulcers... Then in Dec. '08 I came close to a PTS decision. Her face was miserable. When I withdrew the various compatible supplements and went back to plain metacam, her facial expression changed. She was happy again, despite her limited mobility. FWIW.

rabbit_friend, I'll search on famotidine. And good to know the dosage your gal gets of metacam. We all want the safest, and best, for our buns. thanks again tonyshuman for your biomedical expertise.

-> Buprenex is kept in a dark or shaded container. It is a narcotic as well! <-
Store away from light is what I've been told.
I am careful when I withdraw Karla's amount into a low-dose, short needle syringe. I tend to use my diabetes syringes as I get squeamish on longer needles from the vet clinic. eek.
-- It is NOT to be exposed to light. -- Didn't know if your vet had passed that info along? I keep Buprenex from lamp light and daylight when I'm drawing up and administering.

Sidenote: our vet first suggested a Buprenex dose higher than the amount that I give Karla. :confused2:
I was extremely skeptical.:shock: Very much so!! I called in to report that Karla became spacey and was comfortable with the .12 to .15 as needed for discomfort and pain easement. Any higher amount would have been scarey, sent her over the brink I feared. I didn't understand if there was a slight misjudgement or error calculating dosage amount? With insulin & reactions, I don't mess with more insulin than required. Felt the same with Karla's Buprenex.

Lots of TLC and love to Lara. :hearts Inspiring to learn of everyone's devotion to their companions.

 

[BunnieRosanna]

Hi everyone - we went to the vets yesterday. Lara was x-rayed and had a general check-up. The tumours have grown another 30% and the vet says that it is anytime soon now

We got some Tramadol from the vet and he recommended twice a day at 0.02 ml in addition to keeping the metacam going at 0.15ml per day.

He was not sure why her legs had gone lazy, he thought maybe arthiritus but we doubt that it is.

We discussed end of life - he did recommend putting her to sleep when she literally is huffing and puffing trying to breath which sounds awful. I really want a vet to come out to us when it is time, not have to spare her the stress of a car journey.

This morning though, she was still, slit eyes and not eating her breakfast. There was none of this heavy breathing though? So glad we had the tramadol and gave her 0.01. She is resting now and had a bit of salad and a treat of apple and carrot. Her face showed pain - despite having had the metacam 10 hours earlier. So upsetting and worrying....we only said to the vets the day before we felt she was no where near going downhill and then this happens the morning after!

Will keep an update going.