LAGAMORPH//ABSCESS/not for beginners

[jamesedwardwaller]

I WISH I DID NOT HAVE TO WRITE THIS,BUT,/.YESTERDAY MY GRANDDAUGHTER(11YR.)FOUND A FACIAL LUMP-LEFT LOWER JAW-ON HER 4 YEAR-OLD-HAVANA-RABBIT-LARGE DEWLAP-,:/.THERE IS AN OLD OPENING WHERE AS PUSS MAY HAVE ALREADY DRAINED-,ALL VITALS,TEMP./POOPS/EATING/WEIGHT,NORMAL and-INFO BEEN LOGGED,,as standard proceedure,.I STARTED HER ON BAYTRIL/METACAM,.YES,BEEN THERE BEFORE,,BUT I AM A DAY LATE AND A DIME SHORT,..INSPECTION IN THE MOUTH,TEETH/REAR MOLARS SHOW NO INFLAMATION-,THIS MIGHT BE A LUCKY BREAK FOR HER AND ME,..I AM CURRENTLY INSPECTING/EXPECTING THE LUMP TO SUBSIDE./.IS THIS A DUMB IDEA OR SHOULD I SCHEDULE SURGERY ASAP,..sincerely james waller [email protected] :nerves1

 

[Bo B Bunny]

I moved this so you might get better responses.

I believe that you need to see the vet ASAP.

 

[Maureen Las]

The first thing that you should do is see a vet that is knowledgeable re. rabbits

Surgery is not always necessary with abscesses although most of us feel that baytril is not a strong enough drug to take care of it.

I will give you some articles to read re. abscesses
Many of us have had our rabbits treated with injectable penicillin ( bicillin) and usually another oral drug.
A vet would need to do x-rays to see how much of the jaw bone and teeth are involved

http://www.rabbitsonline.net/view_topic.php?id=11791&forum_id=10

 

[DeniseJP]

I agree with Bo B Bunny... we had a doe with a lump on her back... while it had drained there was a lot of debris still on her back - the veterinarian removed a lot of gunk that had encysted... I never would have believed it could happen but the vet was kind enough to show me what she had removed. She did make a full recovery.

Good luck with your bunny....

Denise

 

[jamesedwardwaller]

thank you all for the quick response,i was still online working on my avatar/pictures,..baytril is all i have(no penicillin-g),..the only knowledgeable/trustable specialists,are both on maternity leave-go figure,.and 1 moved,--round trip thru seattle traffic is 70 miles-,so you see i am in a bit of a pickle,/.currently i have her(sweeden) isolated in an adjacent stall/for easy access/and observation,./i am currently dealing with feline parvo-virus/5 month old kittens/tied up tight finacially(over 6 g,s)-they were scheduled for vaccinations/.how do you like that for luck,i am afraid to drive on the freeway-,.the search is on for a specialist,never fear bankruptcy is here,..sincerely james waller

 

[Pipp]

Hi James,

Welcome to RO and hi from up north of you, sorry it's not a happy occasion.

You seem to know what you're up against. The fear I guess is that while the teeth may look fine, the tooth root could be causing the problem, and they're hard as heck to see or diagnose. Or the abscess could be involving the bone, or have tentacles spreading elsewhere. (And even if they go away, they have a nasty habit of coming back somewhere else).

You can probably pick up PenG at a feed store for not much money. A vet will tell you what you're up against, but it's a pretty good bet you'll get injectable antibiotics regardless. Cleaning it with Betadine may also be a good thing to do.

Have you noticed any difference with the Baytril? And can you tell if the lump is shallow and unattached or does it seem to have tentacles or an attachment to the bone or anything?

It's so hard to tell. I've been lucky. With the last three facial abscesses I've dealt with, one turned out to just be a piece of hay or grass or something stuck in her lower lip/gum and it just took a little cleaning and one penicillin shot; the second two were because of a fight with one bunny bitten through the bone in the lower jaw, the other with a cheek and upper gum pus-fest. Both cleared up with constant cleaning and shots every two days for a couple of months in addition to oral antibiotics (Chlor Palm) every 12 hours for a month.

None needed x-rays seeing as the origins and margins were clear.

Good luck with the bunny ... and sorry 'bout the kitties.


sas ray:

 

[Pipp]

PS: Did you go to SnoWood Veterinary? I heard they were good, but I assume they're the ones you were referring to on maternity leave?

 

[jamesedwardwaller]

yep,snowood,..i just sent an email to dr.carter,(awaiting response)..could try dr.haas in bothell.,/.any good.??..the emergency was probably 10 days ago,but i do believe radiographs are in order,..sincerely james waller

 

[jamesedwardwaller]

howdy,northern partner...sweeden-(havana rabbit)-has normal vitals,body temp,(101.7*)eating drinking,weight is being monitored/the worst may be over and i am appaulled that this was not caught -(large dewlap.)-earlier,prey animals die easy,./baytril was given to fight -what if any bacteria may be left,fever or not,.and a little metacam for pain,.day late and a dime short/..i believe radiograph,s are in order as you suggest to get a holistic picture:nerves1,my facility is overwelmed with sick critters,..i raise exotics/lagamophs/homers/and domestics,ie. discarded/injured ./.its a full plate,..i was able to fund it all myself,but that has all changed,...sincerely james waller:cry2:?:rollseyes:cry1:

 

[Pipp]

Dr. Noemie Haas in Maryville? Not much evidence re: treatment of rabbits. But the site lists Dr. Tiffany Brooks as specializing in rabbits. :?

And yeah, tough times for rescues, about to get tougher.

Is the abscess on the jaw or the dewlap or ???

sas :clover:

 

[Maureen Las]

Well James.

You certainly are welcome here. We just love compassionate rescue 'types"( I read your profile)and it does sound as if you have knowledge of rabbits.

I hope that we can help you with her.

Maureen

 

[ra7751]

Hi James,

I have dealt with jaw abscesses quite often. As a rule, I do not open the abscess as I have found that only tends to bring on additional concerns. There might be a time when I would absolutely need to open and abscess, but I have not been forced to do that yet.

The challenge in fighting an abscess with drugs is getting an effective drug(s) to penetrate the encapsulated pus surrounding the core of the abscess...and actually get to the core of the infection. In most jaw abscesses, it is the result of molar root impactions. Baytril is certainly not up to the task of attacking an abscess (or anything else for that matter). I don't use Baytril period..for anything....and I am finding more and more vets that feel that way also. And the core of the abscess contains both faculative and obligate anaerobic bacteria....those do not require oxygen in which to live. The best drug treatment I have used....and successfuly many times....is a precise combination of Penicillin (a specific concentration of Pen G....a combo of Procaine and Benzathine) along with Zithromax at high end dosing. I have found this to be the most effective drug treatment for these abscesses. There is also pain management usually with a NSAID and a narcotic aspect. Since you are using Metacam, keep in mind that this drug is extremely rough on the liver especially if the animal is even slightly dehydrated. And NSAIDs should not be used long term or at high dosing. Used correctly, they are very helpful in treating an abscess.

And you have to at least entertain the possibility that this isn't a true abscess. There are a few possibilites...including a bot.....that could be the cause. I am not familiar enough with the climate and insect population in your area to suggest that it could be a bot or some other parasite.

I would definitely seek the advice of a rabbit savvy vet. The problem with an abscess, if that is the problem and it's not properly handled, is that the infection can damage the structure of the bone and that can lead to some serious issues down the road which might include additional dental issues with the molars or fusing of the jaw.A visual inspection is not a viable substitute for appropriate radiographs.

Good luck.

Randy

 

[tonyshuman]

I really agree that x-rays are in order. That way you can get a better picture of the size of the abscess and ensure that it is not something else, as Randy said. Abscesses can be very difficult and it is important to get a good vet on your side to kick them. Have you checked the list in our Library?

 

[irishlops]

good luck. (wellcome to the fourm on a sad busy note)

 

[Malexis]

I live in the area also, and i was reading this post and saw you mention Dr. Haas i just wanted to say that i have heard that dr.haas is not ver good with treating exotics.. I was also going to go there but decided against it.

 

[jamesedwardwaller]

thank you for your response/malexis?,..dr.haas,/maas in bothell,.your message has been well recieved,..i did get a referral form dr.holly carter(my dvm specialist)she is on leave of abscence from sno wood hosp.since last july,..5pm appt in the renton highlands bird and pet clinic dr.fuxa/specialist,..we will see how it goes,./.i live in lovey kent,downtown off meeker,..i hope lovlier seattle is treating you well,..sincerely james waller:nerves1:rollseyes:biggrin2:

 

[Malexis]

Yeah, i havent personally had experience with Dr.Haas so im not sure im just letting yo know what others have told me. Keep us updated on her app with dr.fuxa? Hope everything goes well... Yea i live not too far from kent, weathers getting nicer where i am

 

[naturestee]

Hi, I just thought I'd note that someone I met this weekend had recently dealt with a tumor on the side of his rabbit's face. From it's position and quick appearance it looked like a jaw abscess but vet examination (I think using xrays, etc) found it to be a fleshy mass which was removed and biopsied- nonmalignant tumor. It's been several months now and the rabbit healed so wellI couldn't tell that not too long ago she had a big chunk of her face surgically removed.

I definitely think xrays should be done to check for tooth involvement. Tooth roots can be overgrown without the rabbit showing any visible signs of dental problems (been there), and those overgrown roots are more likely to cause abscesses. If that is the cause of the problem, the tooth usuallyneeds to be removed before the abscess will be able to heal.

ray:

 

[jamesedwardwaller]

thank you,nice here too,but i want to move south,..stay tuned...sincerely james

 

[jamesedwardwaller]

yes an appt. has been set for 5pm-today renton highlands/pet and bird clinic/dr.fuxa,-exam with radiograghs will tell the story ,..sincerely james