Is this cage ok ?

[ZRabbits]

Excuse me?  What solid information are you stating.  From the Rabbit Society, Rescue Groups?  Sorry, with what I've read here about how some of these rescue groups handle business is appalling and in some cases inhumane.   Who's actually watching them?  I guess it's better to talk acreage for bunnies than actually their well being.  

I was appalled to hear that a rabbit can be neutered the day it leaves.  Or the day the adoption is final.  Look at the thread about the 3 amigos from Florida.   And you tell me that some are worried about the health and well being of a rabbit.  That's neglectful.  And it's bad business.  And it's bad rep.

And who is he to say that pet store crates are cheaply made?  Has he or she have a study on that?  Oh, they don't.  Then someone shouldn't assume.  Also when someone calls other bunny food other than Oxbow dog food.  Hmmm,  I think there is a agenda here.  And I'm not playing it. 

Not ignoring anything.  And I think you should go back and re-read what really was said and let's not forget or ignore the fact that the implication of a hoarder was thrown in there.  And please don't assume. 

Thank you for your comments.  Have a nice day. 

 

[MyBabyHasPaws]

Well alrighty...Carry on!
OP, the cage looks fantastic. You give your bun plenty of free time

 

[Pipp]

okay, Nelsons_Mom made an inappropriate remark, ZRabbits has been edgy and combative throughout the thread, it's been edited, maybe now well, but hey, it was a schmauze.

I'm leaving in ZRabbits last post because it's combative about about rescues and not a person, and that's fine. Personal attacks are not fine.

I will respond to the cage question in another post.

Any posts from NM addressing ZR or ZR's opinions, and vice-versa, will be deleted.

sas :nonono:

 

[Pipp]

maisy&layla wrote:

This is the cage that I have for my rabbit. Does it have everything she needs ? and is there enough space etc ?

She has;
a house with straw for sleep/naps.
Watter bottle
daisy chain(wood) to chew and play
Carrot(wood) to chew/play
Purple tennis ball
food bowl
Litter box

 

Maisy&layla, no offence, don't take it personally, but this is a terrible set up and pet stores are wrong wrong wrong to be selling these cages and most of the toys.

1) Rabbits live in burrows, more than anything else, they instinctively require overhead cover and greatly prefer access to a small 'burrow box', preferably one with a small entrance and a second exit. At least they need something low and overhead, eg: a shelf to hide under.

2) Rabbits instinctively HATE being picked up because in their natural environment, that's akin to being grabbed by a hawk or another predator. A cage that opens from the top is awful for them.

3) Rabbits love and need traction. 'Binkies' are not something joyful, (although they do love the freedom of movement), its practising escape mechanisms. A plastic floor, even covered with litter, does not allow them traction and escape. (Neither does corroplast, linoleum and other flooring, but the pet store plastic is the worst. It is also very hard on the skeletal structure. Babies born on pet store plastic will often be splay legged or have other deformities.

4) Rabbits need hopping movements. Even if the cage was big enough to hop in at all, which it is not, hopping 'up' is better exercise than hopping across. A shelf or the top of a box (with traction) to hop up and down from is a healthier option.

Personally I'd take the top off of the cage and use the bottom as a hay and/or litter box and use wire cube shelving panels with zip ties, or set up an exercise pen, around it.

ETA: For toys, the box can be chewed and replaced as often as you want. You can also stuff paper towel or toilet rolls with hay and let her chew that, and/or supply pesticide-free twigs, branches like apple, pear and willow.

Hope this helps!


sas :bunnydance:

 

[ZRabbits]

I respectfully disagree with you on this one. I have crates that I can access from the top. My bunnies never get upset regarding that. Matter of fact they greet me each time. In the wild, they can be swooped up. But I don't see any predators in my house. Or in my bunny run.

Regarding traction in a plactic floor crate, grass mats work for and my bunnies. No problem there.

Nic Pens use corroplast, linoleum and other flooring, Many people have come on here and complained about their bunnies chew this stuff. Interesting.

Regarding hopping up, some bunnies don't like it. You find them stuck up at the top or huddle at the bottom. I've read posts of people on this forum about that such thing. Or falling which could cause injury. And in the wild bunnies don't hop up. They are on the ground.

I'd like to see the study regarding kits on plastic and problems. It would interesting. But please do not give me something from House Rabbit Society. I'd like true independent studies. But I'm sure you won't be able to find it. I'd do my own research.

Keeping your bunny on the ground, since they don't like to be picked up, would be more healthier than building levels for where injury could occur from level to level.

A good crate with an x-pen for exercise is perfect.

BTW, see you are a moderator. Where are you with the personal attacks on me and my Tribe? I'm waiting. I want an answer. Or are you going to ignore it because you like the Nic Pen too. Please, I thought moderators were supposed to biased. From what you said, don't sound like it to me.

BTW, saw on facebook, what you said about putting people in the litter box. Wow, what a concept.

 

[Pipp]

ZRabbits wrote:

I respectfully disagree with you on this one. 

I'd like to see the study regarding kits on plastic and problems.  It would interesting.  But please do not give me something from House Rabbit Society.  I'd like true independent studies.  But I'm sure you won't be able to find it.  I'd do my own research.  

BTW, see you are a moderator.  Where are you with the personal attacks on me and my Tribe?  I'm waiting.  I want an answer.   Or are you going to ignore it because you like the Nic Pen too.  Please, I thought moderators were supposed to biased.  From what you said, don't sound like it to me. 

BTW, saw on facebook, what you said about putting people in the litter box.  Wow, what a concept. 

This is far from 'respectfully' anything.

I am the owner of the forum. You of course are entitled to your opinion, however, you are not entitled to express it disrespectfully nor engage in personal attacks.

Thank you for your cooperation.


sas :X

 

[Blue eyes]

Maisy & layla,

I can see that you have put much effort into getting together a home for your bunny. I wanted to applaud you for housing her indoors. It seems that many house outdoors in UK (just my impression), but I'm glad you chose indoors.

That said, I would say that bunny needs a much larger area. You are on the right track with supplies, but I wholeheartedly agree with Pipp and Nelson'sMom that your bunny would appreciate a more roomy cage. I know mine like to stretch all the way out on the floor and there simply isn't room for that in your cage. I do like the idea of utilizing the base for a litter box and putting that in a NIC cage or x-pen. If you haven't seen such cages, there is a link on this forum. I'm not sure where to find it but I know it had "cages" and "2012" in the title, so you should be able to search it.

Sounds like you want what's best for bunny, so once you take a peek at what others have done for cages, you will likely be inspired to improve things for your baby.

 

[MiserySmith]

Seeing the joy of a rabbit kept in an xpen/NIC cage/homemade pen is worth moving it IMO.
My guy loves splaying out all about his cage. When we got him he was in a cage about half the size of yours, very poor for the little guy. It actually brought his personality out more when we got him home and set up in a much bigger cage as well.
He also ADORES his level I added to his xpen. He spends 70% of the time in his cage on or beneath it.
I absolutely agree with Nelson'sMom.

 

[fantaysah]

Eh. I agree and disagree... rabbits are like dogs they are all different with their own personality. Some prefer a smaller home and a separate play area and some require a large home. You just have to get to know your bun. In the wild yes they are burrow animals but i find mine hate the house they have and try to shove it out of their cage. They would rather be in the open. They say they don't like drafty places but mine lounge n front of the ac. Mine love zooming up and down their levels but fall sometimes and we don't have anything for traction they love the bare plastic and dig everything i put in there up! I think you should consider all of the opinions but go with what works for you in the end. If your bun likes his small house and gets out enough its fine and doesn't make you a bad owner. I think the bad vibes in the thread were because they were not stated as this worked for me etc. But were stated like it has to be done a certain way Or your wrong and it doesn't. mine are happy and comfortable and are both very different and what works for one will not always work for another.base your decisions on the reactions of your fur baby

 

[maisy&layla]

Thanks everyone for the information and views!

I will be looking into building her a new and larger cage in the next few days. At the moment I feel the cage is an ok size for her but as she grows she will need more room.

Once I have started to build my own cage I will post pics and update on how Layla is enjoying her new cage.

As I did state we let her out the cage whenever we are in and she gets a lot of excercise be it running, clibing or jumping.

 

[I_heart_Fraggles]

:whistling

 

[MiniLopHop]

silversky2668 wrote:

All I'm going to say that in college, you have to support your information with valid sources showing that you have done your research, which Nelsons_Mom has definitely done here. And you're the one making fun of her, trying to belittle the fact that she is saying she believes (as does the ASPCA and many absolutely wonderful, hard-working rabbit rescues) that rabbits need a lot of access to space because they are not small-cage animals. Whether that space is given by NIC panel setups or an xpen or some other means doesn't matter. You can't argue that rabbits are one of the most neglected pets out there as there are many irresponsible breeders, sellers, and owners of rabbits. There NEEDS to be a change to how rabbits are viewed as pets, and I think Nelsons_Mom is doing a good job of trying to get information out there. Maybe not everyone can give their rabbits 24/7 access to a lot of space, but they need A LOT of time to come out, not just a couple hours and then stuck in a small cage for another 22 or less.

I looked at your blog and it looks like you have a wonderful run setup outside, and your rabbits look well-taken care of . But I don't think there's anything wrong with other people promoting more space for rabbits. She's arguing for better rabbit care, not against it, and I'm rather shocked at how you can ignore the solid information she's given and say she's being immature and unintelligent. All you've given for your support is your blog (which is a very nice blog, yes), but there's much more information out there that is helpful and SHOULD be researched before making decisions about rabbits. I think both of you, and most of the contributors on this site, have valid ideas to share and it's sad to see those ideas belittled rather than read with an open mind.

And that's the last I'm having to do with this topic post. I hope the OP takes the information that has been given and makes an informed decision that is the best for her rabbit and will give it the best life possible

:yeahthat: Dear OP, I think you have the right idea. Clearly your bun is still small so the cage probably feels the right size and is comfortable for now. It is good that you are thinking about possible expansion for the future depending on how large she gets. I'm glad to hear she gets lots of run time,as that is also good for encouraging muscle and bone development as she grows. Please do not let the arguments detract from the joy of your new baby.

 

[Samara]

I have a mixed set up at the moment because I'm attempting to bond Gubble and Atticus (neutered males), who are surrounded by my girls. I have a 6x3 NIC panel'd condo that has Atticus, Pidge and Starling in it, which when done will have a den section and a level with ramp. I have Gubble and Molly next to the enclosure in a store bought cage currently.

I have stick-on linoleum as the floor to the condo but I put down fleece on top. What I plan on doing is attaching a plywood floor on the condo and I'm still deciding on what the covering over the plywood is. I'm open to suggestions!

My point in describing all of this is that Gubb/Molls current cage has an open top AND front door design. I don't ever take them out from the top...it's personally too awkward for me and if I'm feeling awkward I have no business picking up an animal in that state, you know? I use the top portion for cleaning or delivering treats, but only with them because they aren't panicky at hands from above like the others.

I think the store bought cages are over-priced, but do have their uses in combined NIC pen designs. You could attach it to a NIC panel if it had a front door and use it solely for hay or something like that.

Pipp, what kind of set up do you use for your buns? I'm always looking for suggestions as to flooring, especially where I'm mid-build with this NIC condo.

Edit: Adding a link with pictures: http://raisincane.weebly.com/nic--house-rabbits.html - if you scroll to the bottom it shows the current set up.

 

[wendymac]

This is from ARBA:

And here's the link to the entire article:
http://arba.net/PDFs/CAW.pdf

 

[Samara]

Hmm. Wendy, do you think I'm doing a disservice to my buns by having it be 3ft wide and not 4? I can see where dimensions certainly make a difference. Atticus is 10lbs, so by the chart he should be in 4 square feet minimum. The 6x3 condo I have is bigger proportionately, but it technically doesn't (?) meet the 4 square feet standard...

:shock:

Poop.

 

[wendymac]

To get the square footage of your cage, you multiple the length times the width. So your cage is 18 square feet, which is a LOT more than the minimum!

 

[Samara]

I can't math. :baghead

 

[wendymac]

LOL! I use my calculator. hahaha

Here's my take on the whole thing. People I think get too carried away on cage sizes and forget the rabbit's basic needs: Food, water, shelter, and the ability to hop a bit. I don't know how much time most folks spend watching their rabbits, but I watch them a LOT. Maybe it's my breeds (French Lops and Californians) but the majority of them do NOTHING. Sure, they'll hop and do a few binkies. Then they lay down. They sleep. So, while it might make the humans feel better giving Fluffy the entire run of the house, or cage space that takes up an entire room, I don't feel that it's necessary. If your bunny is happy, eating, and pooping, gets time to stretch their legs a bit every day, they're probably fine.

 

[BunMommaD]

wendymac wrote:

LOL! I use my calculator. hahaha

Here's my take on the whole thing. People I think get too carried away on cage sizes and forget the rabbit's basic needs: Food, water, shelter, and the ability to hop a bit. I don't know how much time most folks spend watching their rabbits, but I watch them a LOT. Maybe it's my breeds (French Lops and Californians) but the majority of them do NOTHING. Sure, they'll hop and do a few binkies. Then they lay down. They sleep. So, while it might make the humans feel better giving Fluffy the entire run of the house, or cage space that takes up an entire room, I don't feel that it's necessary. If your bunny is happy, eating, and pooping, gets time to stretch their legs a bit every day, they're probably fine.

I could've have said it better myself! Completely agree!

 

[majorv]

wendymac wrote:

LOL! I use my calculator. hahaha

Here's my take on the whole thing. People I think get too carried away on cage sizes and forget the rabbit's basic needs: Food, water, shelter, and the ability to hop a bit. I don't know how much time most folks spend watching their rabbits, but I watch them a LOT. Maybe it's my breeds (French Lops and Californians) but the majority of them do NOTHING. Sure, they'll hop and do a few binkies. Then they lay down. They sleep. So, while it might make the humans feel better giving Fluffy the entire run of the house, or cage space that takes up an entire room, I don't feel that it's necessary. If your bunny is happy, eating, and pooping, gets time to stretch their legs a bit every day, they're probably fine.

We have one active breed and one inactive breed. Even the active ones run around for a little bit, get their jumping doneand then plop down and do nothing for quite a good while.