I think I almost lost Dill :(

[Pipp]

Dill came within a hare's breadth of anemergency ER visit at 4 AM. I had called the ER vet to say we were coming in. I had my boot son, he was in the carrier.

I was pretty sure it was gas --it came on suddenly, I could hear his tummy gurgling a bit. But in spite of working on him since around dinner time Sunday through to 4 AM, he was cold,lethargic and glassy-eyed, he looked just awful -- I'd put him down in some odd position and he'd just stay there.

He would geta bit better after Simethicone, but then worse again, and he seemed to appreciate the tummy massages, which were pretty much an hour on, hour off, probably a total of four hours of steady massage, movement and vibration therapy.But he just kept getting progressively worse on the off hours.

By 3 AM, I was feeding him warmish, diluted juice -- he hadn't had anything to eat or drink since early afternoon I think-- he wasn't fighting the syringe, and half of itwouldjustdribble out, he wasn't even swallowing.

I didn't have any pain meds, and I was beginning to wonder if it was something else, like an internal injury or poisoning or something.By the time I made the call to the vet,he really looked likehe needed one. Unfortunately the ERvet isn't all that bunny savvy, but Ifigured thatif I could just get them to give him a shot of pain meds and take an x ray, I'dhave a better idea.

(BTW, they wanted to give him gut motility drugs, this wasn't a stasis issue, but do they really help gas attacks?)

Ithought I was at thelimit for Simethicone,butseeing asI wore most of the first two doses, I thought I'd try a fourth I think around 2:00 AM,and I made it a big one.I'm not sure if that's what made the difference.

As I was grabbing my coat,I put in another big pile of hay to guard against the cold -- and lo and behold, Dill started nibbling on it. At first I thought he was just cutting the strands, but he actually ate some it. I took off my bootsand called the vet to say we were on hold.

Within five or 10 minutes he was racing around the living room like nothing had happened.

Bunnies. :shock:

I think I'm going to try and have pain meds on hand for future attacks. I'm not sure the vet will agree to give me any,though. But I do believe with these attacks it's the pain causing the shock and hypothermia which is the killer, not thegas itself.

I also think they're different from the stasis gas attacks, but that may be a chicken or the egg thing. As I understand it, stasis is usually a symptom of something else, gas can be a cause, but also a symptom of stasis.

Feedback welcome. :caffeine



sas :yawn:

 

[naturestee]

I'm so glad he's okay!

It sounds a little like Sprite's bad gas attack last spring, except hers lasted longer. She responded to gas meds at first and started to nibble again, then got worse again. She was sob loated it was visible, and gas meds weren't doing anything anymore. Tummy massages helped, especially since my hubby is aw hiz at making gassy animals fart. Eventually she started having mucousy diarrhea after the tummy massages then she felt worse,so we massaged again. More diarrhea/mucous after wards, and then she started to perk up and eat again.

I did call the vet when it became obvious that simethicone was no longer helping. Unfortunately the bunny savvy vet wasn't in and the only one available was a vet who can do surgery on rabbits but isn't very comfortable diagnosing/treating them. We talked about her symptoms, what I was doing, and how she was responding and the vet said I was doing everything that she could think to do, so nouse in bringing her in. Several hours later we were able toget her system moving again.

I actually did figure out the cause of this later. I had given them a huge braid of handmade, freshly dried willow which they destroyed/ate in one day. Willow contains a chemical very similar to aspirin. Fey gets stasis from Metacam, a related drug. :headsmack Not long after that they both got mild diarrhea. Fey got better at the same time Sprite had he r massive gas attack. I'm assuming that Sprite has the same sensitivity to painkillers that her sister Fey does.

SAS, were you offering a heat source to him? That would help moderate a crashing body temp. As much as Sprite hated it, I would snuggle her to warm her up whenever I picked her up for meds or massages. Silly me didn't think of the rice sock at the time.

 

[melanie]

Hi I read your posting with some interest. I have recently lost my bunny, Jack. He suffered from Stasis brought on by a gut infection. It was exceptionally sudden - he died within 12 hours. I had checked him before going to bed and when I went to him in the morning he was in a bad way. I can't help wondering if I had massaged him like you have described if it may have helped in any way. Also what is Simethicone? I have 2 other bunnies and if they show any signs of not eating etc... I will be straight to the vets but if there is some first aid I can administer first or en route I would be grateful for the advice.

 

[naturestee]

Simethicone is baby gas meds. You can look up the dosing amount for a rabbit here:
http://homepage.mac.com/mattocks/morfz/rx/drugcalc.html

Rabbits with gas often have tight-feeling bellies and may have more gurgly sounds than normal. Usually we treat stasis buns for gas just in case, as it does build up when the intestines aren't moving. It can also be a cause for stasis but not always.

I'm so sorry you lost your baby Jack.

 

[JimD]

I'm glad he's okay!!

 

[lalena2148]

Sometimes, I think my buns will be the death of me with their scare tactics! :craziness

Glad Dill is ok! I'll pray to make sure he STAYS that way and doesn't go and scare you like that again! ray:

Here's some flowers for you: :bouquet: :hug2:And get some sleep! :bed:

Nose rubs to Dill.

 

[JimD]

melanie wrote:

Hi I read your posting with some interest. I have recently lost my bunny, Jack. He suffered from Stasis brought on by a gut infection. It was exceptionally sudden - he died within 12 hours. I had checked him before going to bed and when I went to him in the morning he was in a bad way. I can't help wondering if I had massaged him like you have described i fit may have helped in any way.

Hi melanie,

I'm so sorry about Jack.

If it is a GI infection the best thing to do is get them to the vet for treatment.
Our S'more had GI Stasis brought on by an infection several months ago.I took her to the Vet within the first 24 hrs of her not eating or pooping. Without treating the infection, you'd most likely be fighting a losing battle.
(Note: S'more is fine now!)

~Jim

 

[Haley]

The lady whorunsmy local rescue always keeps metacam on hand for any gas/stasis problems. She said she gives them that before any simethicone, because shes noticed that they are experiencing such intense pain, that they usually start to improve after a dose. I would ask your vet about keeping some on hand for cases like this.

Have you ever read James Herriots books? He has some great stories about how an animal on the brink of death could come back just by being temporarily relieved of pain. Its really amazing how much the body canheal itself once its stopped focusing on the pain.

Poor Dill and Poor sas! Hes lucky to have such an experienced and attentive mommy. Heres hoping for no more of these scares!

 

[Pipp]

melanie wrote:

Hi I read your posting with some interest. I have recently lost my bunny, Jack. He suffered from Stasis brought on by a gut infection. It was exceptionally sudden - he died within 12 hours.

So sorry for your loss, Melanie. Did you have a necropsy done? Jack was only four months old,right? Young bunnies are more susceptible to intestinal ailments,it's quite likely it was something else.

Butfrom my experience,when an adultbunny suddenlygets sick, itmost often starts with a gas attack. And moving to keep the rabbit warm,administering Simethicone-based gas med sandattempting to break up thelarge gas bubblesin the system can save his/herlife. It is absolutely the first line of defence around here.

As noted, it's the pain from the gas that does most of the damage,either by sending the rabbit into shock or by causing an appetite loss that leads to Illeus/GI Stasis.

A bunny heading into a GI tract slowdown, or stasis, due to a gutfloraimbalance, a bugor a blockage will more likely see smaller poops and then no poops, orrunnycecalsor even diarrhea, and then gets gas as a result of the slowed gut. But when a bunnysuddenly goes fromactive and eatingto looking like death warme dover,in my experience, it's agas attack kicking offthe works.

Whatever the problem, you can't really go wrong with Simethicone (it's a very safe, inert drug), gentle tummy rubs or even vibration therapy(like putting the bunny on top of a washer or dryer or taking him/her for a ride in the car -- I just used a vibrating toothbrush on Dill),andhydration. Even if it's a slowdownor a blockage,warmish waterandjuice, or betteryet, Pedialyte, with help move any masses through their systems.

And I agree that pain meds are a huge tool, but I'm reluctant to getinto vet territory here, you have to know for sure it's gas or stasis-related pain (and then as Jim noted, you have to find and treat the cause of the stasis).Simethicone, gentle massage (in the lower part of the tummy) and Pedialyte are pretty safe no matter what. I know that Dill is prone to gas, the only reason I was ready to take him in was to get pain meds. If I had Metacam, or even baby Motrin, I would have used it.

Butto recommendthat step, I feel more comfortable saying thatyou do have to know for sure what you're treating,although if it's looking bad,definitely go for it.They really can be life-savers.

naturestee wrote:

Rabbits with gas often have tight-feeling bellies and may have more gurgly sounds than normal. Usually we treat stasis buns for gas just in case, as it does build up when the intestines aren't moving. It can also be a cause for stasis but notalways.

Actually, I have to check but I think Dill's belly feels unusually soft, at least at first.I think that may be a common symptom. I think thedoughy tummies vs. hard tummies needs looking into.

sas

 

[aurora369]

I was worried about Dill too!! He looked so bad when I left your house last night.

I'm glad to hear he made it through. When a rabbit stops fighting, and is so lethargic like that, my heart just sinks, because you know they are really sick.

Good job on the gas techniques, I'm glad he's his happy little self now.

--Dawn

 

[TinysMom]

I was speaking with a rescue worker over the weekend and she said something along the lines of - with the number of bunnies I have - I should have the vet teach me to do sub-Q fluids and then keep that on hand with the appropriate amount needed (from the vet). That might be another option as far as keeping him hydrated -where you know he frequently has problems.

I keep baby aspirin on hand all the time and when Ginger starts to get bloat - she gets simethecone and the baby aspirin at the same time....usually she starts relaxing within the first hour or so and it is just my personal belief that it is because of the aspirin .....or half aspirin. I think it helps enough with the pain...that she can relax and fight the gas.

Just my .02

Peg

 

[grumpybabies]

I'm sorry i know nothing about gas and medication, but i think it would be wise for the vet to give you medicine to keep with you, i do believe it will save lives, and i'm so happy Dill is ok now.

 

[LuvaBun]

Oh, my poor little Dill . I am so pleased he is better - good on you for the tummy massages etc.

I am going to get some pain meds in, just in case. Only thing is, I'm not sure what the UK equivalents are onder:. If anyone has any ideas,I'd appreciate is.

Give Dill extra cuddles from me.

Jan

 

[Rabbit Hutch]

rimidyl aka carprophen (acute pain)

metacam aka meloxicam (chronic pain)

 

[Pipp]

Rabbit Hutch wrote:

rimidyl aka carprophen (acute pain)
metacam aka meloxicam (chronic pain)

Yeah, thanks for pointing that out. Metacam is tossed around here a lot, but it's not very useful in thiscase, it can take8 to 12 hours to workandhas to begiven with food to a well-hydrated bunny. I usually have some around, though, because of Pipp's molar spur issues, which is why I mentioned it in this case, but I have been guilt yofmentioning it as the primary example of a pain med in conjunction with all kinds of pain, andthat's notright.

I was actually asking the vet for a shot of Butorphanol (with a butchered spelling/pronounciation), I actually was tryingto look it up to mentionthat for this post,but I still didn't have the name right and ran out of time.Ialso confused myself by thinkingTorbutrol,but that's the same thing as Butophanol. But it's an important point.

I haven't had much experience with Rimidyl.

sas

 

[Spring]

Wow, sounds like a nightmare! Brings back horrible memories at those rock bottom times when Pepsi had gas. Very stressful.

So glad Dill is better!

Simethecone can be a god send in times of gas!

 

[Rabbit Hutch]

Re - Butorphanol

Studies have shown that Torb has been ineffective as an analgesic and does not actually provide any pain relief.

 

[Pipp]

Rabbit Hutch wrote:

Re - Butorphanol

Studies have shown that Torb has been ineffective as an analgesic and does not actually provide any pain relief.

Love to see the studies. The experts we rely on here, Susan Brown, etc, all continue to prescribe it. This seems to be a pretty sweeping generalization and not very accurate. No time to look it up at the moment, maybe there's something very very recent,but I haven't read anything in the past that would have changed my recommendation re: Dill's treatment. All the vets I've dealt with/researched say it's a great drug for a gas attack, it works quickly to reverse the shock, etc.

From what I remember, it also wears off very quickly, so it's not as useful in a STASIS attack, which is more prolonged, and it's an opiate, not an NSAID (although it if makes the bunny happy, the bunny will eat, which canultimately solve theproblem). There is a difference between gas and stasis -- stasis is still a symptom, not a cause, something that seems to get lost in translation.

The important thing is to see a vet and determine why the bunny is in pain (or stasis) and treat accordingly.Using any pain meds withoutvet supervisioncan mean the pain/symptoms areonly masked,which can befatal.

sas

 

[maherwoman]

Wow...I'm so happy that sweet Dill is okay. Poor boy...

Reminds me of the emergency vet visit we had with Maisie some time ago...so happy both our babies are okay, and my love to those whose bunnies didn't make it through such a thing. That's so hard,and it happens so fast...

My love to all,

Rosie*

 

[Bangbang]

woahhhh this is new too me... gas?? bunnies?? what!?!?!!?
I'm glad Dills ok that sounds terrifying!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!