I think Freya is obese

[Space Monkey]

I used to be a bit more active here as I was learning about rabbits as a first time rabbit owner. We've had her since July 2021 (she was born March 2021, we got her from the State Fair). Freya's journey was well documented for the first several months here.

If anyone remembers, she had a botched spay last summer. The vet messed up one of her eyes BADLY. It took months to heal. Good news is it's completely healed.

So I've documented over the past couple of years that Freya has never been a hay eater. Any advice you could possibly give me has been tried and has failed. She simply will not eat it regularly. She became very skinny her first few months here while we tried to get her to eat it. She didn't grow up on it at all. As a show rabbit, having gotten her from the State Fair, I've learned that this isn't a priority as they don't keep them as pets. She would have been sold off as a meat rabbit or a schoolroom pet in a tiny cage had we not bought her. And indeed when we inquired to buy her they thought we wanted her for a classroom play thing. So we saved her in my opinion.

So being on a pellet and greens diet (and we always keep hay in there to this day even though she hardly eats it because maybe one day it will click for her; at best she nibbles once in a great while), I've noticed she's a much, much fatter girl than she once was. I saw some old pics of her and she was so tiny. Now when I pet her I can feel her jelly rolls. She free roams throughout the day and has a very large habitat. I can't starve her with hay so I don't know what to do. She goes to the vet regularly for nail clippings and general wellness checks and she's in great shape outside of weight. Teeth are especially exceptional. But man she's a fat girl. She's a Mini Satin, supposed to only be a maximum of 4.5 lbs. Last summer at the time of her spay she was 4.4 lbs. Now she's well over 5. I don't know how to help her. She is very happy all around though.

Here's the obese girl guarding her salad.

 

[JBun]

Hey, welcome back!

What kind of pellets is she on, grass based or alfalfa, and the fat and protein percentage?

 

[Mileybun]

Miley was obese a while back for the exact same reason, she can't eat hay due to genetic malocclusion and the damage the elongated roots have done to her jaw
She never had hay growing up either which the vet certainly thinks is another reason!
We cut her nuggets down to literally three or four a day, and switched her onto a nuggets for mature rabbits (she'll be 7 this year) with lower fat and the highest fibre I could find (they're science selective four plus if that helps!)
We upped her greens a lot as she never used to eat much of it, but I can see your bunny already gets lots which is great.
Treats were cut down massively, she only has 1/4 hay based treat bar a night in exchange for doing her routine of tricks (which she is very good at I may add!), and I've been reading the back of the bag or packet for pretty much everything I buy her
You'd be surprised at the fat levels in some of the "healthy" treats!
Also upping exercise levels! She's a free range house bun but also very lazy, so we've been encouraging her to move around more.
We weigh her once weekly now and she has dropped down to the heavier side of healthy which is great

 

[Space Monkey]

Hey, welcome back!

What kind of pellets is she on, grass based or alfalfa, and the fat and protein percentage?

Oxbow Essentials Adult Rabbit Food

Timothy Hay based, 14% crude protein and 2% crude fat. The Alfalfa stopped when she was somewhere between 6-9 months (can't remember exactly).

 

[Blue eyes]

What quantity of pellets does she get daily? Is the hay feeder in the photo the only place where hay is kept for her?

The openings of the hay feeder are rather small and not convenient for a rabbit to get the hay. If that is the only source, I'd suggest providing an open container to put hay in. I'd also suggest putting some fresh hay in every day. If hay sits for more than a day, most rabbits tend to lose interest in it. Something about putting fresh hay in their space can entice them to eat it.

The greens plate in the photo is an enormous amount of greens. Is that what she's been eating every day?

 

[Space Monkey]

What quantity of pellets does she get daily? Is the hay feeder in the photo the only place where hay is kept for her?

The openings of the hay feeder are rather small and not convenient for a rabbit to get the hay. If that is the only source, I'd suggest providing an open container to put hay in. I'd also suggest putting some fresh hay in every day. If hay sits for more than a day, most rabbits tend to lose interest in it. Something about putting fresh hay in their space can entice them to eat it.

The greens plate in the photo is an enormous amount of greens. Is that what she's been eating every day?

I couldn't be more clear that we've tried everything with the hay. She gets fresh hay in the litter box every other day when the whole box is changed out. The hay feeder is simply an addition to her pen. She likes to jump over it and rarely nibbles on a piece. She rearranges the hay in her box and poops and pees all over it. We've tried all sorts of different hay, hay mixtures, treats in hay, greens in hay, loose hay, a plate of hay, hay in a manger over the litter box. Everything you can think of has been tried for 2 years. She will not eat it. She was very skinny her first few months here because I believed the internet when they said she would die without it and her teeth would go bad. Instead she went into Stasis in those first few months because we tried the unlimited hay, 1/4 cup of pellets, limited greens that seemingly works for other rabbits. She wasn't eat enough, she was skinny, her poops were small, and then boom, Stasis. Now at about 20 months of unlimited pellets and a large salad every day has her pooping great, acting great, her teeth are great, no Stasis, her general health is great, but she's gotten to be chunky. The vet savvy vet is aware of her diet and isn't surprised. Rabbits raised for show and/or meet and classroom cages, and particularly her breed as a Mini Satin, don't always get proper diets and tend to do well on pellet diets. An issue with over breeding. And yes that's her daily salad. It gets put in there every evening and she eats it at her pleasure until it's changed out for a new salad the next evening. If this is the source of the problem with her weight then we can make the salad smaller. She started getting a larger salad because she's still a tiny breed even if she's gotten fat and wasn't going through it fast enough before we would have to throw so much of it in the trash due to rot. We can't shop every day or two, only once a week. The more we gave her to prevent waste, she kept eating it all, so we thought, "well, if that's what she wants". We could maybe buy smaller quantities on shopping day and give smaller salads and have her off greens for 2-3 days until the next trip, but changing her diet does scare me some. She almost died once already when I tried the "right" diet.

 

[Mileybun]

I would think it's probably the pellets causing her weight gain in this case

 

[Space Monkey]

I would think it's probably the pellets causing her weight gain in this case

If this is her source of hay essentially, what can I do?

 

[JBun]

Salad isn't really going to contribute to weight gain. It's mostly water and isn't something I would worry about contributing, provided you aren't adding carrot, fruit, or grains. She's just getting more pellets(calories) than she needs. So it's just a matter of reducing pellet amounts to the point that she is only getting the amount she needs to maintain a healthy weight, or changing to a lower calorie pellet.

If you aren't wanting to reduce pellet amounts (for whatever reason), if you haven't tried plain grass hay pellets(different from rabbit food pellets), that may be an option to try(can't remember if this is something you tried or not). Standlee has timothy and orchard grass pellets(equine, livestock 40lb bags) available online, or sometimes in farm stores. I've used the timothy ones, and my rabbits ate them without any problems, but just depends on how picky your bun is. They are a larger size than normal food pellets. If you try this option, you would need to reduce the oxbow pellets some, then make up for it with adding in the hay pellets.

Or there's the sherwood free choice timothy rabbit food. It has lower protein, and higher fiber than the oxbow, so should help with reducing calories when feeding an equal amount to the oxbow. It's for buns that can't or won't eat loose fed hay, to give them the added hay and fiber they need, included as part of the food pellets. May be another option, if you haven't tried this one already.

 

[Space Monkey]

Salad isn't really going to contribute to weight gain. It's mostly water and isn't something I would worry about contributing, provided you aren't adding carrot, fruit, or grains. She's just getting more pellets(calories) than she needs. So it's just a matter of reducing pellet amounts to the point that she is only getting the amount she needs to maintain a healthy weight, or changing to a lower calorie pellet.

If you aren't wanting to reduce pellet amounts (for whatever reason), if you haven't tried plain grass hay pellets(different from rabbit food pellets), that may be an option to try(can't remember if this is something you tried or not). Standlee has timothy and orchard grass pellets(equine, livestock 40lb bags) available online, or sometimes in farm stores. I've used the timothy ones, and my rabbits ate them without any problems, but just depends on how picky your bun is. They are a larger size than normal food pellets. If you try this option, you would need to reduce the oxbow pellets some, then make up for it with adding in the hay pellets.

Or there's the sherwood free choice timothy rabbit food. It has lower protein, and higher fiber than the oxbow, so should help with reducing calories when feeding an equal amount to the oxbow. It's for buns that can't or won't eat loose fed hay, to give them the added hay and fiber they need, included as part of the food pellets. May be another option, if you haven't tried this one already.

I'll look into these pellets. Thanks a bunch JBun.

Her fat is spilling over onto her plate

 

[Mileybun]

Those sherwood pellets look good! Shame we can't get them in the UK!

 

[Orrin]

One of our rabbits was having a problem because we were feeding alfalfa-based pellets. So, we found a source of timothy-based and gradually switched over to them. (In our experience we've learned that rabbits do not like changes of any kind.)

At first, the problem girl did not like the timothy pellets; but, over a period of many weeks she adapted and seems to like the timothy.

We also switched from local baled timothy to Sherwood timothy.

Now, her problems have gone away; she loves those timothy pellets; and, her weight seems to have leveled out.

Good luck! But, remember that your rabbit might possibly take weeks to accept to any changes.

 

[Blue eyes]

I couldn't be more clear that we've tried everything with the hay. She gets fresh hay in the litter box every other day when the whole box is changed out. The hay feeder is simply an addition to her pen. She likes to jump over it and rarely nibbles on a piece. She rearranges the hay in her box and poops and pees all over it. We've tried all sorts of different hay, hay mixtures, treats in hay, greens in hay, loose hay, a plate of hay, hay in a manger over the litter box. Everything you can think of has been tried for 2 years. She will not eat it. She was very skinny her first few months here because I believed the internet when they said she would die without it and her teeth would go bad. Instead she went into Stasis in those first few months because we tried the unlimited hay, 1/4 cup of pellets, limited greens that seemingly works for other rabbits. She wasn't eat enough, she was skinny, her poops were small, and then boom, Stasis. Now at about 20 months of unlimited pellets and a large salad every day has her pooping great, acting great, her teeth are great, no Stasis, her general health is great, but she's gotten to be chunky. The vet savvy vet is aware of her diet and isn't surprised. Rabbits raised for show and/or meet and classroom cages, and particularly her breed as a Mini Satin, don't always get proper diets and tend to do well on pellet diets. An issue with over breeding. And yes that's her daily salad. It gets put in there every evening and she eats it at her pleasure until it's changed out for a new salad the next evening. If this is the source of the problem with her weight then we can make the salad smaller. She started getting a larger salad because she's still a tiny breed even if she's gotten fat and wasn't going through it fast enough before we would have to throw so much of it in the trash due to rot. We can't shop every day or two, only once a week. The more we gave her to prevent waste, she kept eating it all, so we thought, "well, if that's what she wants". We could maybe buy smaller quantities on shopping day and give smaller salads and have her off greens for 2-3 days until the next trip, but changing her diet does scare me some. She almost died once already when I tried the "right" diet.

As others have already noted, the pellets are the likely cause of the obesity. That is why I asked about the quantity of pellets. Sherwood has pellets made specifically for rabbits that don't eat hay. That's a great alternative.

I only asked about the hay based on the photo. Can't tell you how many times people have said they "tried everything" but then realize they had not. So just was checking based on photo and since you mentioned that she "hardly eats it," which I took to mean that at least she does occasionally try. Wanted to be sure she has easy access other than the hay box. But I see that you also offer it abundantly in litter box. The Sherwood pellets are made for such a rabbit as yours!

 

[Nancy McClelland]

Our rescue Coal was a 9+ pound mini rex. Looked like a blob with eyes and ears. For the first 4 months she got nothing but orchard grass and a small amount of veggies. After 2 days she started eating hay--took 2 years to get her to a normal weight and she only got a teaspoon of Timothy pellets twice a week. Peter also did not no what hay was but started eating his 2nd day with us and got to the point where he didn't eat very much pellet and preferred Orchard Grass.

 

[Jocee]

I find giving plenty of fresh grass is wonderful for keeping my bun healthy and at a good weight. Some of you may not be near a lot of grass. I live on a farm, so I've got paddocks of it, but if you can find some fresh grass to pick and give your Bun daily, might help.

 

[samoth]

The greens plate in the photo is an enormous amount of greens. Is that what she's been eating every day?

Uh oh... we're not supposed to put that sort of thing out twice a day?

My doe is similarly obese. She just loves to eat. All the time. And not usually hay. Even after cutting pellets down a lot, she's still hefty.

In contrast, my buck eats more pellets & treats than she does, and doesn't gain weight. He's not super food-oriented in general, though, and he does eat more hay.

 

[samoth]

I find giving plenty of fresh grass is wonderful for keeping my bun healthy and at a good weight. Some of you may not be near a lot of grass. I live on a farm, so I've got paddocks of it, but if you can find some fresh grass to pick and give your Bun daily, might help.

I've been doing this -- grass, dandelions, & raspberry leaves.

However, at some point, RHVD is going to hit my area of the US, and I have a lot of cottontails visiting my yard (probably because I feed them). I'm not sure what I'll do at that point.

 

[beachpaws]

I've been doing this -- grass, dandelions, & raspberry leaves.

However, at some point, RHVD is going to hit my area of the US, and I have a lot of cottontails visiting my yard (probably because I feed them). I'm not sure what I'll do at that point.

You can gets your buns vaccinated! My two girls are on year two of being vaccinated against RHVD. The vet can order the vaccine if not in stock.