I need some help-possible fur mites?

[gentle giants]

Before I give details here-none of these guys have been to the vet, I am going to go in and talk to my vet today (hopefully he is in!) and ask him about this. But right now, my husband is out of work, and we are broke as ****.

I have several groups of bunnies living together, and that is where things seemed to start, andI had just assumed there had been arguments between bunnies and a little fur had been pulled. But now there are several doing this, and it's getting worse. Symptoms are: Patches of thin fur, or even bald skin. Abrupt onset. IN a couple of them, they are losing a lot of weight as well, and that is what really scares me. I have a young harly doe that I brought in the house, she looked so wobbly that I wanted to be able to hand feed if needed.

I have a JW doe that literaly lookes like someone took a set of clippers to her, she has a short "buzz" of fur over her shoulders and neck left, that's it. Although behind her shoulders, the fur looks pretty much normal. And this happened fast, within about 32-48 hours. ON all of them, anywhere the skin is bald, the skin looks normal, I can't see any evidence of flaking/dandruff, or even any signs that they have been scratching at it. They are all eating quite well,, I have the ones that are losing weight on almost free feed, and they are eating it, but don't seem to be gaining.

Once a couple more of my Ebay auctions end, I am going to go and buy some oats and sunflower seeds to give to the ones having the most problem. I am really worried about this, because most of them are out in the barn, and our temps are in the teens and twenties right now.

Once I have talked to my vet, I will post with what he says, and try taking some pics of the doe I have in the house. She looks incredibly awful, you would think she was mangy and starved too to look at her.

 

[Flashy]

Oh no What a headahce for you!

Are there any illnesses that cause a rabbit to lose fur and weight? I'm throwing that out there because that doesn't sound like any sort of mites I have heard of.

Intestinal parasites? That would have a longer onset though and not be acute, it would be more chronic, from my experience.

Man, I have no ideas, but I TRULY hope you find this. I'm presuming you are doing strict quaratine procedures?

Please keep us up to date.

x

 

[Flashy]

Would poisoning of some sort do this?

 

[Maureen Las]

I don't really know so I started skimming literature.

You really need to take at least one rabbit tothe vet because this sounds serious. it is the weight loss thatI find disturbing. (Is it normal for rabbits kept outdoors to lose weight when the weather is cold?)

if not I would think that there is more than one problem. The weight loss could be caused by , organ failure or most anything ..you need to geta blood panelon one rabbit.

As flasy posted it could also be a a toxin (new feed)

the hair loss could be a secondary effect of a lowered immune system allowing a fungal infection? / vitamin fedicincy etc.
I am going to pm pam Nock
Also why don't you run another post relating to this in the rabbitry also,....

http://extension.oregonstate.edu/catalog/pdf/pnw/pnw310-e.pdf
things to look into

 

[gentle giants]

Flashy wrote:

Would poisoning of some sort do this?

It is interesting that you said that...It reminds me of something Dr. Drake brought up about Toby.

WARNING; SOME GRAPHIC DETAILS IN THIS POST.

When Toby passed over the bridge, there was a lot of blood from his nose and mouth. As in there was a puddle. Dr. Drake asked me if it was possible for him to have gotten into any rat poison anywhere. And although we do have a small amount of it in the house, we have it up high in one fo the top cabinets. We have always been really careful with anything like that not only because of the critters, but the kids too. So I just can't see how he could have gotten any. And so far as I know, there isn't any way that the ones in the barn could have gotten into anything poisous either.

 

[gentle giants]

angieluv wrote:

You really need to take at least one rabbit tothe vet because this sounds serious. it is the weight loss thatI find disturbing. (Is it normal for rabbits kept outdoors to lose weight when the weather is cold?)

Nope, most definalty not. Most of mine actually gain slightly in the winter, because I feed them extra. I am going to ask (read "beg on my hands and knees"!) for Dr. Drake to allow me to make payments. Other wise...well, I have less than $20 bucks in my banks account right now, unless I take some from savings, and that would take a few days to get it transferred, etc.

 

[Maureen Las]

Can you get the barn warmed up at all....:?

 

[Flashy]

In my experience angieluv, in the cold, rabbits seem to actually gain weight. Or rather, at this time of year. They seem to slow down, and with the same diet mine, and many other buns I have seen have gained weight. ALTHOUGH Polly was saying how hers can get thinner, so I guess that could be relevant.

Any chance of them being fed grass with fertiliser or anything potentially toxic getting in to them another way?

This sounds a bit reminiscent of Ellisian's Milly who was losing fur and weight, then died quite suddenly. They talked about VHD with Milly, or an issue with the vaccine, but really, it could have been anything.

 

[Flashy]

gentle giants wrote:

Flashy wrote:

Would poisoning of some sort do this?

It is interesting that you said that...It reminds me of something Dr. Drake brought up about Toby.

WARNING; SOME GRAPHIC DETAILS IN THIS POST.

When Toby passed over the bridge, there was a lot of blood from his nose and mouth. As in there was a puddle. Dr. Drake asked me if it was possible for him to have gotten into any rat poison anywhere. And although we do have a small amount of it in the house, we have it up high in one fo the top cabinets. We have always been really careful with anything like that not only because of the critters, but the kids too. So I just can't see how he could have gotten any. And so far as I know, there isn't any way that the ones in the barn could have gotten into anything poisous either.

That bit about blood sounds like Milly too, if my memory serves.

 

[gentle giants]

They haven't gotten any grass in several weeks, and I have always been really careful not to feed them anything out of our yard where we use fertilizer. VHD is not applicable either, becuase none of them are breeding, and in at least a couple of cases the only contact between them is whatever I carry on my hands during feeding/cleaning.

 

[Maureen Las]

I just read a whole section on worms..some worm infestations can cause lethargy, depression and wt loss but there usually is also some GI symtom but not always. This would not explain the fur loss, however,


Do you deworm your buns...??

 

[gentle giants]

Just wondering about something else-what with the sudden losses of Toby and Max under mysterious circumstances, although very different symtpoms--could the feed be causing this? I just bought four new bags a couple fo weeks ago, all from the same "batch" I would assume. But could it cause two such very different illnesses?

 

[Flashy]

I wouldn't expect you to have VHD over there, but that can be transmitted on hay and anything contaminated because it stays in the enviroment for months, and you normally see no signs. I guess I was just likening it to Milly and the series of symptoms Milly went through just in case something in Milly's story clicked somehow, that's all

Could feed be contaminated? Hay? Maybe someone has walked on something in their shoes and walked in with the bunnies? Or any chance the kids have given them something and didn't realise it was dangerous? Or any neighbours close by? Enclosure recently painted?I'm really just thinking off the top of my head here, you don't have to answer it all, I'm just looking at all possibilities. Any chance of rats being in there who have eaten the rat poison? Would their faeces pose a problem? Might they pick up something contaminated and then drop it again?

 

[gentle giants]

angieluv wrote:

I just read a whole section on worms..some worm infestations can cause lethargy, depression and wt loss but there usually is also some GI symtom but not always. This would not explain the fur loss, however,


Do you deworm your buns...??

I haven't in a long time. I don't like to medicate unless there is obvious reason for it, I am pranoid about building immunities to meds. I haven't seen any sings of GI problems, either, I know the ones I have in the house are pooping quite well.

 

[Flashy]

We posted at the same time. I would say the feed is a possibility. Would mycotoxin poisoning do this? Actually, I think it might. I had to look into it before, and that can cause organ failure and many other problems too.

 

[gentle giants]

Flashy wrote:

Could feed be contaminated? Hay? Maybe someone has walked on something in their shoes and walked in with the bunnies? Or any chance the kids have given them something and didn't realise it was dangerous?

The kids haven't been around the ones in the barn, and I have drilled it into their heads pretty thouroughly not to feed the bunnies anything without asking Mommy first.Or any neighbours close by? Enclosure recently painted?

No recent paint. There is a DD young man in the nieghborhood that I know has gotten into my barn in the past and stolen things, I would think though that if he had gotten into all my cages he would have left doors open or something. I'm really just thinking off the top of my head here, you don't have to answer it all, I'm just looking at all possibilities. Any chance of rats being in there who have eaten the rat poison? Would their faeces pose a problem? Might they pick up something contaminated and then drop it again?

I do have mice, so far as I know no rats. I will have to check out the possibility of leavings from them. I am going into town now to talk to vet and drop kids off at school, I will check back with attempts at pics and such when I get back.

 

[ra7751]

Interesting. When I have multiple rabbits get sick at once...I look for the common denominator and in most cases it's food and/or water. I would suggest doing at least a few full blood chemistries. Initially, it sounds like a toxin. But we have had both intestinal parasites and hormones cause this. Nutrtional issues cancause these conditions but I doubt that is the case here. Here are some suggestions I would look at.

>Take a close look at their food. Was a new bag of pellets or new bale of hay opened recently? Check mill dates on pellets.

>Are you on well water or city water? If you use well water, have it tested for toxins expecially if you are in a farming area. Don't discount where you aquifer runs if you are on well water....we once had a hog farm near us and water was terrible. If you are on city water, call your water company and ask if they have changed anything in the treatment of their water.....that includes chemicals and/or the amounts used in treatment. Treating water in winter is different than treating water in summer.

>Does the problem present more in one sex than the other Does it affect smaller rabbits more than larger rabbits?

>Do any of your neighbors put out poison for mice/rats? Those little guys do not respect property lines and rabbits will eat mice....believe it or not. Outside possibility, but something to consider.

>Get blood chemistries on several rabbits. While that won't identify any possible toxin, we do know what organs that are stressed by certain toxins and that might can point you in a specific direction.

>Ask your vet to perform skin scrapings and take a look under a scope.

>VHD is very unlikely but it has been documented in the US.

Will be interested in hearing what your vet thinks. This might take some intense diagnostic work.

Randy

 

[gentle giants]

Ok, just got back from the vet's office. Dr. Drake is at a conference until Wednesday, so I talked to Dr. Albin. We decided to start with a fecal check, to make sure we aren't dealing with worms/internal parasites.

Randy, this is affecting rabbits in very different ages, some intact, some neutered/spayed. As far as size, it does seem to be larger rabbits, or at least larger breeds, Honey ( the harly doe I moved indoors) is the smallest in her litter, and of course is still young and growing. I have recently made small feed switch, still on Cargill brand but went from the Blue bag to the Pink. I am trying to think of time lines here, I want to say that there were several days between the start of the new feed and any onset of symptoms. Dr. Drake had gone over the feed contents with me already, I gave him one of the ingrediant labels.

 

[gentle giants]

I was just out doing another bunny check, and now have another Satin buck and a Mini Rex doe starting to show slight signs. :X

I noticed that there were a couple of weird "chunks" of stuff in the feed, with the Blue bag I would see this every once in a while but now there is a lot of it.

Some pics of Honey, I wish they were clearer but she was very much against the idea of holding still...

Full body shot, just so you can see how thin and just not right she looks.

Shots of the bald spots.

 

[pamnock]

I can't venture any guesses as to the cause (possible viral?), except to give suggestions to address the results of the stress to the system. I would start giving Nutri Cal ASAP! It's very easily metabolized by the system and will help boost immunity by providing nutrients to the cells. In unexplained cases of fur loss, I've used Sevin dust. Nutri Cal has vitamin E and will help to address the skin issues. (I'd also give additional vitamin E).

I'd also provide full-spectrum lighting for at least 12 hours a day. (You can get inexpensive ones from Walmart).

As Randy said, the symptoms are similar to nutritional deficiencies. I think that's is partially what is playing a role here - when the body is stressed, top priority goes to synthesizing glucose. Protein synthesis and tissue repair suffer as the stressed system's top priority is to maintain the brain. Weight loss, hair loss, tissue break-down and eventual death can result due to pulmonary edema. Severe hemorrhage can also occur.

Pam





Pam