Have any of you seen these symptoms? Please help!

[yvonn]

Hello ,
I am from Germany and new to this forum. I signed up here because I am really desperate.
My bunny is very sick and nobody knows what he has.
Here is a video link which look like the thing my bunny does.
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PO0rdUkWn9Y[/ame]
Just the cramps are more severe and he runns like a tiger would persue him. He runns against walls. These attacks happen about every 3 weeks. Usually they come every 10 min plus minus 5. After the first he would recover and even eat a bit. later on he would be apathic and hyperventilate.
His eyes have always a bit of sleep stuff in them , his droppings are huge in size. His belly makes often bubbly sounds and after the last attack his hindlegs were a bit paralized but he recovered from it. He has sometimes something like hikups. he looses balance sometimes while cleaning. His appetite is Huge and he drinks and pees a lot.In between the two weeks he is happy and like normal.I noticed that he puts his head up a lot , like back into the neck.I consulted all the vets in my area, nobody knows.
The blood examn did not show anything and the stool sample just showed too much yiest. I treaded him for E. Cuniculi anyway for 3 weeks before the last attack happened.also there are no poisonous plants and he has no cage but lives with an other bunny in our living room.
His brother had the same symptoms when he was 3 month old. Just after the attacks he was like a different bunny - he became super scared- like he paniked when there was any noise around him . He slowly got better and just when I thought he is back - he had an attack and on the way to the vet he died ( heart).
Please if you know what this could be, help me.

Yours Yvonne

 

[PaGal]

I am sorry but the video is not working for me. I hope someone comes along that can give you an answer. Maybe for now look in the health section

 

[JBun]

Just from the video it looks like he is dreaming then startled awake, then it sounds like he's panicking afterwards and running into things. But if you say there are other symptoms accompanying this, then the other possibility that I can think of is that he could be having a seizure. If your rabbit is also eating and drinking excessive amounts regularly, if you haven't had a blood test done to rule out renal failure(of which seizures can be a symptom of), that might be a good thing to have done. Treatment for seizures will depend on what the cause is, but may involve putting your rabbit on seizure meds and possibly anti inflammatories. Here's some info on seizures in rabbits so you can read up on it. If you don't have any rabbit specialists in your country, being in Europe, there are some very good rabbit specialists in the UK that might be worthwhile for your vet to consult with.
http://www.medirabbit.com/EN/Neurology/seizure.htm
http://wildpro.twycrosszoo.org/S/00dis/Miscellaneous/Epilepsy_Bears.htm

The large droppings and gurgling stomach sounds like it could be a separate issue to me. Are his droppings the normal round fecal balls or do they seem oblong or oddly shaped at all? What's his diet like(food, hay, treats, etc)?

With putting his head up a lot, and if this is separate from these other episodes he's having, has your vet given him a thorough dental exam? Strange head movements, particularly while eating, can be a symptom of dental problems.

 

[yvonn]

Thank you both for your fast responses,

The video is on you tube called bunny is sleepwalking or possessed. My bunny does this without being asleep. The blood test did not show renal problems.
He eats lots of fresh veggies and pellets with 4% grain,but no hay since he has lost a tooth. I try to get him back on hay though. Apart from the missing tooth his teeth are fine. The droppings are normal shaped.
We have some bunny specialists here, and I contacted them, but they also do not know. But I am happy about your suggested experts. I try to contact them tomorrow. Today they made a ct and extra bloodwork , so I know hopefully more tomorrow. Thanks for your suggestions, Ill read up on seizures as well.
Have a good day!

 

[Aki]

Honestly, I've never seen anything like it. The video looks like the rabbit is caught in his dream and I've seen a few people report rabbits running away in panic in the middle of a dream or phenomenons akin to sleep-walking, but those rabbits weren't ill and had none of the other symptoms you mention. The first things that popped into my head while reading your description were seizure, epilepsy, E cuniculi and brain tumor. I also think the gut problems could be a separate issue. It could be caused by the stress resulting from the other condition. The fact that you had a sibling with the same issue is also quite strange...

I've just read your post. No hay would explain the guts problem. Why would missing a tooth prevent him eating hay?

 

[yvonn]

Thanks Aki,

well he just refuses the hay so the dr, said it is because of the tooth. And in the beginning he did not eat so we were happy when he started eating the pellets and it kind of became a habit. but we try to get him to eat the hay. I have really good hay my other bunny loves it. Unfortunately I have no video of my bunny , because the attacks are so severe that I have to hold him, otherwise he would kill himself. He gets meds for Epilepsie now and hope the ct sais more. unfortunately I live in a village so far away that I can not go to an other dr. then the ones I visited already . I only had tel. conferences with the experts. Before I got them they were lying on mouldy hay, and I tried to save them from a farmer. But lately I feel only depressed and worried I miss something that could help them or that maybe I did something wrong.

 

[Preitler]

Hi,

hm, since there was another rabbit with the same symptoms, imho it's either genetic, contagious, environmental (not likely, never heard of that), or food related, like a deficiancy (imho not very likely either in that case).

Bubbling sounds are not good, I always have a bottle of Simethicone at home. (Antiflat-Tropfen für Kinder, bei Bedarf gebe ich 15-20mg 1-2 mal pro Tag, 5-8 Tropfen auf die Pellets). It helps to pass the gas.

What pellets do you use, and how much do you feed? What veggies? Gas and yeast can imho be a sign of a too rich diet.
If he eats greens, does he eat grass and weeds (Spitzwegerich, Schafgarbe, Rosengewächse wie Brom- und Himbeeren (oder eben Rosen, ungespritzt), Apfel- und Weidenblätter und Zweige...) too? That would be a good source for fiber and substitution for, and maybe introduction to hay. (Introduce anything new slowly)

No idea about the attacks, that is wierd, but epilepsy does seem a reasonable guess. Since his brother had the same I wouldn't think a tumor is very likely.
Hm, I was at the vet only once with a rabbit, stasis and bloat, didn't do any bloodwork, poop test or the like, so yours doesn't sound that bad. And don't feel bad, rabbits are fragile creatures, I think you are doing ok.

Viel Glück

 

[Aki]

It sounds like you are doing everything you can. It's horrible not knowing what the problem is and feeling like you are blindly trying to treat something (it's not as serious but my dog's been ill for three months and after vet visits / food changes / several treatments, I'm still not sure what the problem is or if it will ever go away which is driving me crazy - I'm also in a small town with no car and not much of a choice vet wise)
Some rabbits are really picky with hay, even when it's a good one - my Aki is like that, she's getting old and her guts tend to get slow (she almost died two months ago after her guts stopped), so it's really frustrating but sometimes I have to open 4 or 5 hay bags in a row to find one she likes even if the rabbit she lives with eats from the others with no problem. You could try second crop (or even Crau hay, considering you live in Europe), most rabbits like it better than regular hay.
I'm sorry I don't really have anything enlightening to say about your bunny's issue, but I hope you will find an answer soon.

 

[yvonn]

Thank you for your kind words Preitler and Aki,
really appreciate it!
I hope your dog gets better ! Glad your Bunny recovered! Before the bunnies now I had two others that died around 11 years old and never had a problem.
I got them organic apple and pear and brenessel, and spitzwegerich, dandelion and fresh timothy grass and hay and fresh bunny meadow plants. apart from that they get oregano , dill, basilicum , thyme, salad chicoree , petrosilia and roots , red beet, cucumber and apple and peppermint. I think the whole belly bubbling has to do with the antibiotics he had to take and I fed too much carrot. The pellets are from Vitakraft the all in one for babybunnies and they contain 4 % corn( the rest is hey and ok stuff) but I hope I can get him off of it. I feed him one whole cup a day of it.(He is a giant bunny, deutsche riesenschecke)) I had to leave him in the clinic one more night, because he does not eat enough since the meds make him too tired. I hate this clinic and really hope the next place we move to has a better vet. So far I spend 1200 Euro without any results and can not even pay my own health insurance this month. I will continue with the hay diet trial, thanks for your advice .Good night

 

[Preitler]

To be frank, there is a point where a good vet should say that there isn't much to do, live with it or not. There are vets who will suggest one therapy and test after another, ruining you.
I have a old, pure farmers vet at hand, who sees things more pragmatic.

I've a friend who's dog has health problems, she's pretty much broke, and paying all the vet bills put her in a very tight situation. It took years to find out what the dog is allergic at - almost every meat and so on. Would have paid her drivers license plus car. If she even could afford this.

I was without health insurance quite some time when I was younger, working black (no idea if that's an english term), and it may have killed me if it were not for school friends who arranged things.
You need to draw a line. You first. Look for help with the bunny, contact shelters, Kleintierzuchtvereine etc, but paying vets is a high class amenity if you can't actually afford it. Right now, I'm more worried about you than about your bunny (granted, I breed rabbits for meat, but what the heck, I care about them)

 

[yvonn]

I appreciate your openness

We still can not give up and hope the new meds will help, but anyway there is nobody who would take sick bunnies, and we are too attached.
I reached out to my family and luckily they help. Since we made all tests and still do not know we now just treat the symptoms and if he suffers we have to let him go.

 

[yvonn]

And secretly ( or not so secretly ) I fantasize about my vet in a dark basement.

 

[ladysown]

what happened to my comment? I watched this. commented and said...look for a heart murmur or e.cunniculi. seen and heard of rabbits who do this that struggled with similar behaviour.

 

[yvonn]

Hello Ladysown,

Thank you for your comment.
I have no idea what happened , but I did not see your comment.
I treated the bunny for e. cuniculi and he tested negative for it. The doctors I went to said, he does not have e.cuniculi. But I agree with you and thought that somehow he still might have it. Now I went to a rodent specialist, and she also thinks it is e. cuniculi. Now we treat him for that and hope for the best. The heart thing I will look into it! My doc said his heart was fine , but he did not do an ultra sound. Did the rabbits you saw get better? How were they treated?

Thank you so, so much for your comment!

Yvonne

 

[Nette]

Hi Yvone,

I hope bunny is still okay at the moment, being very experience house rabbit owners we know the pain you are going through.

What tooth has he lost? The opposite tooth should also have been removed generally as it will not be able to be ground down. in this case it can grow out of control in weeks sometimes days.

Behaviour in bunnies is very complex and many things can contribute, vets in general are not very good on this non medical side. His behaviour in general does not alarm me too much at the moment.

Does he have clumps of soft messy pellets coming away from his anus and is he still grooming well.? With his pellets being large if he does have messy clumps of the soft pellets it can indicate a disease called Mega Colon, we lost a lovely fella to this last year. It causes a lot of discomfort and odd feelings a Rabbit is not used to and with that comes odd behaviour. Unfortunately there is very little you can do about it. We have some reading material though if you need it.

His diet needs to get back onto mainly hay, with small amount of high quality pellet food and small amount of greens. Pellet food can cause them to drink more, how much is he drinking and what is his urine like. Not eating properly is almost always either teeth issues or bunny is in pain. You need to observe bunny for signs of pain as they are masters at disguising it.

As has been suggested he looks like he is sleeping and then gets startled when he wakes. Rabbits are pray animals that normally sleep with one eye open, if a shadow passes the eye they get spooked and flee at great speed. As they have poor short site they often bump into things. Sometimes you need to go back to basics and restrict there area as too big an area too soon can cause this problem. once they settle down you then expose them to more and more area. then they take over the house!

Please let me know i can help further and i do hope he is still with you.

Tim.