Gabriel (my avatar) is in stasis

[Maureen Las]

This has been going on since yesterday but I have been too obsessed with him to post.
This is the bun who was found dehydrated and starved in June. He also has possibly megacolon as coccidia was ruled out.

He has pooped the largest poops and the most poops of any bun I have and predictably messes up his area................................ until I noticed yesterday that when I put him inhis pen that he just sat in a corner.
Well as soon as I realized that he was not pooping I began "the regime" of simethicone, pedialyte, petromalt, pineapple juice. metacamand wet greens. I also have attempted to massage his tummy I thought I could get him out of this myself........................but I was becoming hysterical last night when he still hadn't pooped and this AM is unchanged.

Problem is is that because he is not yet neutered he is extremely hard to syringe or massageI am VERY frightened of him aspirating as he struggles and fights and has tremendous strength for his size. I have got way less into him because of this.

He is still eating a little greens on his own but nothing else and NO POOPS.

I am having a terrible time..I mean terrible awful time syringe feeding him> he is still someswhat perky as I have been with him so much that he likes the attention.



I have a vet appt at 340 pm today.

A few days ago he jumped out of my arms and hit his mouth on the floor. I tried to examine his teeth as he seemed to place his paws to his face after this occured. His front teeth look OK to me but I thought maybe his hay intake had diminished because maybe he hurt his mouth or a tooth.????????

The only other thing is that I let him play with newspapers on Wed and he may have eaten a lot of it..not sure.

I have thoought of Sprite (RIP)and her megacolon and am wondering if there is more going on here than I know.

Anyway I'll let you know

Any suggestions??????????Comments?

keep me and him in your thoughts as I am a wreck.:shock:

 

[Bo B Bunny]

Would he let you hold him on a warm towel and just sort of pet his sides to massage them?

has he chewed anything and eaten something he shouldn't (Bo devours carpet and isn't allowed near it).

I'm praying for you guys.

 

[Maureen Las]

Only thing that he has had that is nothis normal is newspaper. He always jumps over the side of the exercise pen and a couple day ago I realized that if I placed newspapers in the pen that he chewed them up and dragged them around the pen and had fun with them. Thats the only thing different.

Thanks for the thoughts. Bo

 

[Thumpers_Mom]

I am soooo sorry for what you are going through.I don't have any advice but would like to send Gabriel and you ((((((((hugs))))))))))))).

Please keep us posted. ray:

 

[tonyshuman]

i don't think newspaper could cause stasis...unless he ate a ton of it! i guess if he already has a sensitive digestive system it could be bad.

sending good vibes your way--

 

[rabb1tmad]

I'm hoping things go well for you and that we see lots of :litterhealthy:and a well bunny soon.



ray:

 

[MsBinky]

Sorry. I don't really have anything helpful to add since you tried the home remedies. Can he have gotten hurt from the fall? Is the stress enough to cause stasis? :dunno

 

[pamnock]

Toss out the Petromalt and use Nutrical instead.

Praying for poops :litterhealthy:

Pam

 

[Maureen Las]

Thanks everyone..the vet had a cancellation so I am going at 12:10pm rather than 4 pm.

Will Nutrical stimulate the digestive tract? I have some here

 

[Ivory]

Angieluv, Sprite had ileus, didn't she? Ileus and megacolon are two different things.

That being said, greens will help provide moisture so everything doesn't dry up.

But then, what kind of greens is he eating? Some people don't know this, but some greens cause gas, which can cause slowed peristalsis, as can simethecone. Again, people don't know this, but simethecone can make the whole situation worse, because it can slow the intestinal peristalsis. And that's not good.

If you have some dandelions, that can help as a laxative effect.

I would try to get some mineral oil or other lubricant into him. Some people don't like mineral oil because of aspiration, all I can say is that people prefer different things.

If you have access to Metoclopramide or Cisapride, that can be given. They can be given at the same time.

Best of luck to the little guy, I hope he pulls through.

 

[Bo B Bunny]

Good luck!

Hopefully he'll be like most children and fix whatever is wrong on the way to see the doc...... so if your car ends up full of poos - blame me!

 

[Ivory]

Oh, and I forgot to say- yes, a mouth injury can contribute to stasis. What happens is, their mouth hurts so they don't chew as well as they should, and this causes a sort of "clump up" in the stomach, and things don't move as fast as they should. Again, we get into gut motility.

Nutrical will get some calories in him and help him from having a problem with hepatic lipidosis.

 

[Maureen Las]

I am going to the vet at 12pm so I'm not doing the mineral oil again yet. I tried mineral oil last night and I usually use it instead of laxatone or petromalt. It is just that I have never had to fight with a rabbit so much to get it down him...the other stuff I just put on his paw so he would have to lick it off.

I want the vet to x-ray him. I actually have a bad feeling about this because it happened so suddenly . Massive pooping to nothing.

Anyway I'll post when I get back and I'll have the vet examine his mouth too.

Thanks everyone.

I have got enough fluids into him so that I'm sure that he is not dehydrated

 

[Maureen Las]

also didn't know simethicone would stop him up more...guess that"s for plain gas and not plain stasis.

Thanks Ivory

 

[Bo B Bunny]

I am SO careful about greens because of gas. I rarely feed anything other than cilantro, parsley and I did feed romaine but it gave Bo the soft poos.

I also sometimes use red leaf or green leaf but again only a tiny bit, and carrot tops..... omg they love those if I can find good fresh ones.

 

[ra7751]

HI,

Just thought I would add my "two cents" here. I have very different ideas on stasis.

First, don't overdo things. Primary mission here would be to steady the ship. We have had buns not produce any poopsfor a week and they came thru. Remember that a rabbit's gut is a verydelicate mechanism that does not like changes in food and/or routines. Adding all these different things does just whatshould not be done....we keep things as basic as possible. Try to find out why we have a slowdown and attack with a well thought out plan that ends in a corrected gut without too much "other stuff". Here are some of our protocols. Our first reaction to stasis is movement and hydration. Get them to move as much as possible without over stressing them. Wet leafy greens really help with hydration....and I think Ivory mentioned the benefits of dandelions...lots of water and nutrition in them. If you have the ability, sub-q fluids usually will make a huge difference in getting things going. We do use pineapple juice even though there is no real hard evidence that it does any good..but it seems to. Use only fresh juice...not canned or concentrated. I buy a real fruit, cut it up and hand squeeze. Tummy massages are good...and a heating pad on low setting might help too. We do use simethicone in some situations but it can have a constipating effect. Analgesics can also slow the gut. I never use any of the stuff like petromalt since it can make an impaction dryer and more capsulated...which is the opposite of what you want. I do not use mineral oil. And this is controversial..but I would never under any circumstance use any gut motility drug...no if, ands or buts about it. None of my vets would even consider using these drugs on a rabbit. In my non-professional opinion of these drugs..the risks far outweigh any benefit....and there are much safer and effective ways of getting the GI moving again. These drugs will never be used on any rabbit that is in our rescue for any reason at all. One of our Flemish just went thru a bout of stasis and didn't produce any poops at all for over 5 days. She got over half a litre of lactated ringers per day along with some "encouraged" exercise. We kept things asbasic as possibleto get her gut back into order. By the way....she went into stasis due to ingesting some of her "comfort mat". She came out of it just fine. Everyone has their things that work..and these protocols have worked successfully for our rabbits for many years. Healing vibes for Gabriel.

Randy

 

[pamnock]

I also strongly recommend against using mineral oil. It is effectively used in horses with illeus, but it is directly tubed into the stomach. The danger of aspiration is not worth the risk of using mineral oil. I watched a rabbit suffocate to death after aspirating mineral oil - not something I ever want to witness again.

Nutria Cal has many ingredients to boost the health of the GI system without having to force large volumes of supplements. I've found it to be an excellent supplement in cases of GI stasis.

As Randy mentioned, light exercise can be very beneficial as well as hydration by ringers solution. I agree that the use of gut motility drugs can be risky.



Pam

 

[Maureen Las]

Well here is the vet report

X-ray shows full stomach ..intestines full of gas.

On physical exam his stomach was not really hard as you would expect.

I mentioned that Gabe had hit his mouth when he jumped out of my arms the other day and we did look at his incisors which looked good but the Dr. wants to wait to do full dental until he is out of stasis. as he would have to be put under.

Of course I am placed in a position of not following the vet's plan because he ordered cisapride 0.25 mg 3 X per day until he talks with me Mon.

He ordered oral Ciprofloxicin 25 mg 2 times perday

force feed critical care if necessary

no simethicone
no petromalt, laxatone etc for now

no pineapple juice for now.

If I give him the cisapride I could end up with a dead rabbit (I'm saying that)

I am going to do a lot of what Randy is saying..I already bought a fresh pineapple and got pedialyte here. I will use pumpkin if I have to force feed because I can't get CC down any rabbit.

Problem is is that I have no clue what brought this on except that he ate some newspaper. They get greens and hay every day in addition to pellets.

 

[Ivory]

The most notable side effect of Cisapride in rabbits is an interaction with anti-fungal medications, such as ketoconazole, and it can cause heart problems. It can cause death of the fetuses of a pregnant female when given at high dosages.

Other than that, there ain't much wrong with it, not according to the three veterinary textbooks and the two veterinarians I just consulted on it, as well as my own personal experience, in watching it in rabbits as well as in my own rabbits, when Erik had to have it. (I am assuming that your bun isn't pregnant or on oral antifungal medications.)

I would have no problem following that vet's recomendations, and I can't find any actual scientific literature on why Cisapride would be bad for a rabbit. Some people don't like it; I have no problem with it when it is used correctly.

Other gut motility drugs, maybe. But Cisapride is generally considered safe when administered correctly.

There are certain things to avoid while using a gut motlity drug, of course.

 

[Bo B Bunny]

UNLESS you don't have faith in your vet, Honestly, I would go with exactly what your vet is telling you. He's a vet. That's what he's trained to do. Exotics vets have to keep up on all the latest material, and medicines - I believe they are also required to take some sort of course every so often. Our vet does a course for Purdue University I know.

Pumpkin is good but ya know - it could cause gas I think.