Fat rabbits

[jcottonl02]

OakRidgeRabbits wrote:

But when you feed a limited supply of something and the animal is ravenous for it, it means that there is something missing from their diet that they are trying to fulfill through another food that provides it. That is just general knowledge. For example, you know how pregnant women have cravings? That's not just because they're crazy! It's because their body is lacking in something and instinctively craves a food that has it.

Not necessarily at all! Cravings don'talways imply that we are lacking in something, especially when it comes to fatty, sweet or calorie-rich foods. This dates back to our primate ancestors, generally arboreal mammals who grazed all day on leaves and any fruit they could find. Leaves containing such little nutritional value that they would have to eat all day long just to fulfill their needs. However when something calorie-rich such as honey came along, they would stuff themselves to the brim with it until it was all gone, because it is such a rich energy source that is so scarce. Nowadays this kind of food is freely available to us, but we still have this primitive 'craving', as such, for it, even though we can have it all the time- it's just evolutionary processes. Hence why I blame my ancestors for the fact I can't open a packet of chocolate biscuits and only have 2 and put the rest away.... :confused2: lol

I would imagine this could be similar to rabbits too- once they find something very tasty (so fatty, calorie rich foods) they want as much of it as they can find. So things such as very sweet fruits, sweet vegetables, and pellets would be much more preferable to them than hay for example.

Just my take on it.

My buns are the perfect weight for their breed, and I have never had any kind of digestive upset etc. or anything with them, so I know my diet is perfect for them. Just fyi for anyone who wants to know, they get approx 1/4 cup of pellets every day, unlimited timothy hay, and a large bowl of lots of different veggies and herbs daily (which they adore), and fresh fruit treats. Not only do I believe this is healthy for them, but it also gives variety to their diet, which is not only beneficial to them but also makes it much more interesting for them, with all the new and contrasting flavours etc.




Jen

 

[Maureen Las]

Jen

Do your rabbits get a lot of exercise? I believe that must be the issue with mine.

 

[jcottonl02]

They get the opportunity but they really don't seem to be doing loads of running etc. Weather permitting they are in their run up to possibly 10 hours a day (not really practical in snowy winter, though, so it's more like 3-4 hours inside the house in a bun-proofed room).
They spend the first 1/2 hour binkying pretty much non-stop, but then generally just lay down, or start grazing the grass. They'll wander round, hop a bit, finding newer patches of grass etc. to nibble on, and have a run round every now and then, but they seem to be voluntarily lazy most of the time lol.

But neither are overweight, and they really do eat a lot.

I wonder whether maybe switching to a 'light' pellet would help? There is a sort of 'diet' pellet in some ranges for overweight buns, but I don't know how good they are.

Jen

 

[OakRidgeRabbits]

jcottonl02 wrote:

OakRidgeRabbits wrote:

But when you feed a limited supply of something and the animal is ravenous for it, it means that there is something missing from their diet that they are trying to fulfill through another food that provides it. That is just general knowledge. For example, you know how pregnant women have cravings? That's not just because they're crazy! It's because their body is lacking in something and instinctively craves a food that has it.

Not necessarily at all! Cravings don'talways imply that we are lacking in something, especially when it comes to fatty, sweet or calorie-rich foods.

I wasn't talking about fatty, sweet, or calorie-rich foods. I was talking about foods that meet nutritional requirements. Craving sweets just because you're standing in a candy shop is different than craving essential nutrients.

 

[Flash Gordon]

my buns arent revenous for timothy based pellets ..they are ravenous for alfalfa based pellets...so ur saying that nutritional requirement that they are craving is protein?....
alright well im willing to try upping the amount of pellets to 1/2 cup on one of my thick buns as a trial.ill monitor her really well and ill start with her weight ..how long do u think i should do this before i will see a DROP in her weight from feeding more pellets..?..

 

[OakRidgeRabbits]

Flash Gordon wrote:

my buns arent revenous for timothy based pellets ..they are ravenous for alfalfa based pellets...so ur saying that nutritional requirement that they are craving is protein?....
alright well im willing to try upping the amount of pellets to 1/2 cup on one of my thick buns as a trial.ill monitor her really well and ill start with her weight ..how long do u think i should do this before i will see a DROP in her weight from feeding more pellets..?..

I think maybe I'm not explaining myself very well, so let me see whether I can address your questions while also clearing up my previous comments.

I'm not meaning to say that alfalfa pellets could be used as a dietary aid. For example, adding more alfalfa pellets to your rabbits' diets will not necessarily make them drop weight.

But if a person has multiple rabbits that are on an already very limited pellet diet (timothy pellets, at that usually) and timothy hay, but still overweight...something is wrong with the diet. Whether the rabbit is a house pet, a breeding rabbit, or a show rabbit, domestic rabbits just don't get much exercise. So the problem at hand is probably not lack of exercise, but rather a diet that just needs to be tweaked a bit. Ravenous cravings and eating large amounts of one food (in this case, hay) can be indicators of this as well.

Now, I'm not putting down veggie diets because I'm sure that they can be fed correctly too. But the HRS recommends something like x amount of cups per day, and then lists a list of rabbit-safe veggies. Well, that's an okay basis but depending on exactly what you put in those cups, your rabbit could be severely lacking or 'overdosing' on certain nutrients. For most of us who aren't nutrition experts, it would be hard to pinpoint exactly what is going wrong. At least, I know it would be for me!

Similarly, other people choose to do a timothy pellet, timothy hay, and maybe occasional veggies or treats. This diet is a little better and can be a little more closely monitored since part of the diet is sold with an ingredient list on the bag, but it also lacks variety and may cause trouble for some buns as well.

So if the buns are having weight problems, this is why I was just suggesting that a high quality alfalfa pellet diet and fresh grass hay. This provides a variety of nutrients that can be more closely managed for buns with weight issues and it is easier to add more or less to fit your rabbit's needs. I have approx. 20 rabbits currently and none are overweight. This is because the pellet/hay diet has variety and even the general suggested intake fits most rabbits. For those that it doesn't work for, I can add more if the rabbit is underweight or less if they are getting chunky.

Hopefully that helps explain a little better. If you decide to make any diet changes, do it slowly of course. Usually it takes at least 3-4 weeks to see noticeable changes in diet, so for anyone who decides to modify the diet at all for any reason, give it a little time to begin seeing results.

 

[jcottonl02]

OakRidgeRabbits wrote:

Now, I'm not putting down veggie diets because I'm sure that they can be fed correctly too. But the HRS recommends something like x amount of cups per day, and then lists a list of rabbit-safe veggies. Well, that's an okay basis but depending on exactly what you put in those cups, your rabbit could be severely lacking or 'overdosing' on certain nutrients.

I think I understand a little better now, from what you've said. What I will quiccklyy snick in here is that HRS don't recommend all veggie diets. They recommend x amount of pellets, x amount of veggies, and x amount of fruit per day, and recommend at least 3 different veggies per day, rotating through the different days. For me this looks (and put into action!) is absolutely ideal, but like we always say, every bun is different (some can't even have a few mouthful of veggies without being badly affected!!!) so it's most definately personal preference. And as you say, Julie, your diet seems to do really well for your buns, and gives them the great quality show coats you need, so it's really all down to what you think works well. I was just quickly adding in there that that isn't what the HRS suggests. I TOTALLY agree with u on the fact that an all veggie diet is pretty hard to master unless you know exactly what you are doing, and you run the risk of deficiency in the diet. That's why having some pellets in there daily is a very good idea (imho)

Jen

 

[jcottonl02]

Also, I could be completely wrong here, so anyone with good knowledge on the subject, please say, but do rabbits really need that much 'excercise' as such? Obviously they need 'exercise time' for many hours a day, but for most of that time both in the wild and domestic, they just sit and graze really. They frolic, play and binky etc. but most of the time they are just sitting munching on grass, or staring vigilently for predators. They diet is pretty poor, like most grazers, so they have to graze for pretty much most of the day to meet their energy requirements, so why would they run round loads and burn off all that energy they strived so hard to get?
Obviously carnivores etc. are on a much higher protein and fat diets because meat is just so much more calorific etc. etc. than grass and leaves etc. so I would understand why if they did little exercise they would get tubs.

I could be completely wrong but that just doesn't seem to add up to me.

Jen

 

[OakRidgeRabbits]

Yeah, rabbits are built for short bursts of speed to outrun predators but they aren't really built for endurance. That's just a general characteristic of prey animals.

I think in domestic rabbits, exercise time is mostly for mental stimulation. Since rabbits' digestive systems are constantly moving food through, they don't tend to pack on pounds easily if they're on a good diet. It's fun for them to be offered time to run but I think they're mostly just as happy lounging.

 

[Maureen Las]

Most wild cottontail rabbits do not live a full year so anything they were doing wrong nutritionally would not really have a chance to catch up with them .


Jen
Your rabbits get moved around from outside to inside which I think is good because most rabbits will expend more energy when they are intoduced to interesting environments.

My rabbits have enough space to exercise in their xpens (which are large), however, sinceI do not move them out of their areas some of them do not use their space at all... while other do .

My 2 bonded pairs are way more active than my singles.

Oak Ridge
It has really been drilled in my head to feed very small amount of pellets , however, I am listening to what you are saying.
Once I again I will say that Iam feeding a small amount of pellets, enormous amounts of hay and smallish amount of veggies with no fruit.

I would consider increasing pellets somewhat ifI thought it would help the weight issue but firstI think that I need to rotate my rabbits to their neighbors x-pens and get them moving ...
if that doesnt workI will try to change the diet.
I have one older rabbit who seems to just 'sit" and he is obese to the extent thatI am concerned about him.
if a rabbit is at a normal weight someone is doing something right.