Diamond needs help! Poopy butt :(

[Pipp]

dixonsrabbitry1 wrote:

Id like to see the study where it caused deaths. I have never heard of it causing any deaths at all. Just boost of liver enzymes. It really wasn't proven that pine was the culprit in the first place. If thats the case then every rabbit owned by every breeder across is hiding some pretty severe illnesses form us, because we all use, it seldom see any problems. I think using years of experience with something does speak for itself.

dixonsrabbitry1 wrote: "A very interesting read. Breeder friend of mine. her husband helped her write the article and happens to be a scientist.

http://buckysbunnies.tripod.com/Pine.html"

Sorry, I'm familiar with that site/article and it's pure bunk. There is so much garbage taken out of context, and very measured wording from the friend, husband or whoever about what is 'accurate'.

It flat out says that soft wood shavings that aren't heat treated will cause substantial changes to the liver values and disturb sleep patterns. The argument that these things don't 'hurt' rabbits doesn't hold water.

It sounds like the tobacco companies' stage two of denial -- "okay, maybe it IS addictive but it won't hurt you."

I'd say this thread is getting off topic, but I'm not even sure what the topic is anymore! But I don't want to continue on this constant rehashing of the same old arguments about litter, pellets and everything else.

Agree to disagree.

Done.


sas

 

[mistyjr]

I have to agree with you on that.. Yes, I give all my rabbits 1/2 cup of pellets daily except my dutch's get less then that because they would get 1/2 cup and they started getting fat! So they get less then the others.

 

[dixonsrabbitry1]

Pipp wrote:

It sounds like the tobacco companies' stage two of denial -- "okay, maybe it IS addictive but it won't hurt you."

I'd say this thread is getting off topic, but I'm not even sure what the topic is anymore! But I don't want to continue on this constant rehashing of the same old arguments about litter, pellets and everything else.

Agree to disagree.

Done.


sas

Tell that the hundreds of thousands of rabbits that are kept on it. Or better yet the thirty or so bunnies in my barn The hrs info provided that shavings are bad is also bunk, because they never proved what actually caused the liver enzymes to elevate.I also believe their 'study" was done someyears ago when they were having problems with rabbits dying on the table fromwhen the vetput them under.I also know pet owners that have kept their rabbits on shavings and never had a problem when they took the rabbit in for a spay or neuter. Never lost them to liver disease over it.

Whether you are agre eor not, the article I provided is thoroughly researched. I guess we will have to agree to disagree then. Not everyone is going to use pine shavings. There are many, many, many of us that have never had issues with it, nor had any rabbits die from liver diease from it. If it was harming our rabbits, we wouldn't use it.

I had two rabbits necropsied last year that were kept on pine. When I was having feed problems. Nothing in the report indicated any signs of liver disease. You woul dthink that if pine was so bad for them, that those two rabbits would have been showing signs of severe liver disease.

The only type of liver disease I have lost rabbits to is livercoccidia. Something that is quite common in rabbits, and can raise liver enzymes. Not a sneeze or snifflefrom it, and I use tons of the stuff. I go through a large bag of pine every 2-3 weeks. I also keep my guinea pigs on it. Never an issue with them either. The rabbits are not direct contact with it. the guinea pigs are.

I think this turned into more a conversation/debate when the op mentioned something about someone emailing her telling her to use pine. Its a good one.

 

[Pipp]

dixonsrabbitry1 wrote:

I had two rabbits necropsied last year that wer ekept on pine. When I was having feed problems. Nothing in the report indicated any signs of liver disease.

And only a small percentage of people who smoke get cancer.   Nobody's condoning cigarettes.

You posted the link, people can make up their own minds.

This INCESSANT arguing about these things is a total waste of time.  

Please STOP IT!!  That goes for ALL your never-ending arguments.     We can't continue this, we honestly have better things to do!

If you want to start yet another thread on litter, pellets, breeder/pet difference or anything else, go for it, but do it in another thread and please keep it there.   Don't post in this one.  At all!!

PERIOD!!


:grumpy:

 

[treasuresandstuff]

Oh my, I'm sorry my beliefs about pine started that, on a happy note Diamond is eating fine again. I think she was seeing if she could get me to give her more oats lol. Also we are working on getting her and burnie "fixed" so we can bond them

 

[Happi Bun]

Kathy, that is great news and good luck on bonding your bunnies!

 

[dixonsrabbitry1]

treasuresandstuff wrote:

Oh my, I'm sorry my beliefs about pine started that, on a happy note Diamond is eating fine again. I think she was seeing if she could get me to give her more oats lol. Also we are working on getting her and burnie "fixed" so we can bond them

There is nothing for you to be sorry about. You *did* start a pretty good discussion about it. I don't think there is anything wrong with doing it. You(unlike others)seem to be pretty cool with people using it, after you stated why you didn't, and your reasons why. It doesn't always work for everyone. I am sorry you are alergic to it. Must be pretty nasty to be around huh? You know whatI can't stand the smell of? Cedar. Now that stuff is nasty! My moms Bf went and bought bedding for me about a month ago. I told him pine. Guess what he brought home. OMG does that stuff stink! I used it. Made me gag when I did. Didn't seem to bother the bunnies any.

I am glad diamond is getting better. I hope she makes a full recovery, andyou don't have any more issues with her.

 

[treasuresandstuff]

Just one. I can feel every vertebrae in her spine and in Burnie's. But I will start a different thread for that since it is separate.