Diamond needs help! Poopy butt :(

[treasuresandstuff]

Apparently not resolved. Vet cleared her to get pellets again, slowly. Like 1 tbsp each feeding. We do two small meals that equal what she should get each day. One in the morning and one in the evening. This morning I found she had not eaten her pellets, just ate the oats around them. I posted in nutrition and behavior and was jumped on for having her on just hay and oats to begin with so I came back here. The vet still wants her getting oats. Should I give her full ration of oats and pellets in the morning so she has pleanty of time to eat all of it instead of splitting it like we were? Also we are forced to at least temporarily change foods. We were giving purina blue bag, feed shop was out and the other stuff they had was stinky and buggy. Really nasty. So I had to go to Wally world and get Small World pellets. I am slowly mixing them in with the old, so far have only added 1/4 cup to 6 cups the old. So she is getting very little if any of the new pellets. My vets office is closed or I would be talking to him. Anyone have any advice that does not include telling me by having her only on oats and hay a few days is killing her???

 

[dixonsrabbitry1]

treasuresandstuff wrote:

Man, I had posted on Craigslist that I needed hay and what I was willing to trade and stuff in order to get it and got a really odd email that confused me. Person claims to have raised rabbits 23 years. They basically said I am feeding TOO much HAY (is that even possible?) and that THAT is what is making my rabbit have bad poos. That I need to give LOTS of pellets and hay only 2 times a WEEK. NO veggies for ANY rabbit EVER.

Um, none of that sounds right to me? Especially for these kinds of rabbits? Also told me to put them on PINE bedding???

Its their way of feeding them that obviously works for them. Just a different method feedinga rabbit. I bet they raise them for show. the show rabbits diet consists of pellets and hey. Some only feed a couple of times a week, some give all they want, while others don't feed any at all.

Pine bedding is fine too. Kiln dried is even better. I have used both for years and have never had any issues at all. As long its ventilated, its fine.

Check with local farmers and amish. esp those that raise cattle and horses. Most usually grow their own hay or purchase it from somewhere.

Straw can be fed to rabbit. It is excellent to give to a bunny that is suffering from gi stasis, or enteritis. It is good to use for hardening up the rabbits stools, and putting their gi tract back in order. I have had does eat all their bedding before they have their litters.

About the poos, if its clear mucus, it could be anything from a bacterial infection to enteritis. If its dark, and mucusy, then it could be something else going on. You really can't treat something like that unless you know exactly what is going on.

 

[treasuresandstuff]

She's not having issues with her droppings anymore, I was afraid she wasn't eating her pellets but she ate them after trying to hold out for more oats. She is back on her normal rations with plenty of hay now. Thanks! Yeah I know everyone has a different way of feeding, but I would think it was obvious to that person that the issue was not enough hay for this rabbit after I stated the issues began a couple days after we had run out. I checked everywhere and then some. Had to drive way out of my way in the end to get some hay. Local shops should have some mid july after the grain crops come in. That was what I was told. Thank you again!

 

[Pipp]

I haven't read this thread closely, or from the top in quite awhile. I may be missing things.

But I would not feed the oats for sure. I really don't understand the science behind that one. They have been recommended for 'diarrhea' in the past but they also cause cecal dysbiosis which is far more common than true diarrhea.

The smelly part could be coccidia (a parasite) or it could be the normal smell of cecals, which humans don't really see or smell as a rule, seeing as they're supposed to eat them and only produce an overabundance when they're ailing.

Enteritis is the term for inflammation of the small intestine and covers bacterial and parasite infections.

Either way, she needs fiber, not carbs, and definitely not processed carbs.

Can you tell if the poopy butt shows up after the oats? Or after the pellets? Switching brands may be a good thing. I'd change pellets regardless seeing as it is very possible that a bad batch is causing problems. I always mix my brands as much as possible to avoid this. There is currently a scare on about Purina, and although it's more likely a virus than a nationwide contamination (of mycotoxins), I'd switch to be safe.

(BTW, what was the 'buggy' brand, and what do you mean by 'buggy'?)

I agree that straw is good. It may not be nutritious, but it's a great fiber source that will keep her tract moving with well-formed output.

I may add to this when I review the whole thread.


sas :clover:

 

[Pipp]

LOL! Sorry, I had my reply up on my screen for awhile, you posted before I got around to hitting 'send'.

Glad she's feeling better.

I have an oat monster, too (or I did until I heartlessly cut her off them altogether). She stopped eating everything, holding out for the oats.

The vet diagnosed her with 'SBS' -- Spoiled Bunny Syndrome.


sas :laughsmiley:

 

[Pipp]

dixonsrabbitry1 wrote:

Pine bedding is fine too. Kiln dried is even better. I have used both for years and have never had any issues at all. As long its ventilated, its fine.

I use the pine, but very reluctantly and only when VERY well ventilated. And I mix it with hay. It really has to be kiln dried.

No offense, but saying you've used something for years with no ill effects may not be the truth because the effects are well hidden. The cedar and pine aroma problem first came to light when an abnormal number of rabbits were dying during spay and neuter surgeries.

Some astute observations saw that the deaths for four times higher in cedar/pine rabbits and that sparked further tests which in turn showed abnormal liver functions.

If someone who rarely has their rabbits anesthetized and/or doesn't always know the cause of a rabbit's death (or the death is chalked up to 'liver disease'), its really hard to determine whether it has or hasn't caused issues.

This is true in so many other areas. It's like someone jaywalking on a busy freeway. They do it all the time and they haven't gotten hurt or killed, so the conclusion is that jaywalking on a busy freeway must be okay.

Not.


sas :bunnydance:

 

[dixonsrabbitry1]

Whats going on with purina? I feed it, and I haven't heard anything. I feed the corn free formula.

 

[dixonsrabbitry1]

Pipp wrote:

dixonsrabbitry1 wrote:

Pine bedding is fine too. Kiln dried is even better. I have used both for years and have never had any issues at all. As long its ventilated, its fine.

I use the pine, but very reluctantly and only when VERY well ventilated. And I mix it with hay. It really has to be kiln dried.

No offense, but saying you've used something for years with no ill effects may not be the truth because the effects are well hidden. The cedar and pine aroma problem first came to light when an abnormal number of rabbits were dying during spay and neuter surgeries.

Some astute observations saw that the deaths for four times higher in cedar/pine rabbits and that sparked further tests which in turn showed abnormal liver functions.

If someone who rarely has their rabbits anesthetized and/or doesn't always know the cause of a rabbit's death (or the death is chalked up to 'liver disease'), its really hard to determine whether it has or hasn't caused issues.

This is true in so many other areas. It's like someone jaywalking on a busy freeway. They do it all the time and they haven't gotten hurt or killed, so the conclusion is that jaywalking on a busy freeway must be okay.

Not.


sas :bunnydance:

Id like to see the study where it caused deaths. I have never heard of it causing any deaths at all. Just boost of liver enzymes. It really wasn't proven that pine was the culprit in the first place. If thats the case then every rabbit owned by every breeder across is hiding some pretty severe illnesses form us, because we all use, it seldom see any problems. I think using years of experience with something does speak for itself.

 

[dixonsrabbitry1]

A very interesting read. Breeder friend of mine. her husband helped her write the article and happens to be a scientist.

http://buckysbunnies.tripod.com/Pine.html

 

[treasuresandstuff]

Wow, ok, the poopy butt problems began after we ran out of hay. Apparently she is very sensitive to needing hay. We will have to work hard to keep it on hand.

I use aspen or shredded paper. Since my rabbits have no contact with the paper the source isn't too big of an issue for us, but it is mostly newspaper from our local paper companies which use soy based inks. I will never use pine after raising gerbils on it and having them get sick and/or die and for the fact that I myself am alergic to it. I break out in hives and my throat closes.

I have always used rolled oats with my rabbits in small quantities with purina blue bag pellets and calf mana. For some reason I find this usually keeps a good coat with nice luster and body on them. She may be an exception. Though with Burnie it is filling him out nicely.

I like straw for feeding, but prefer to offer hay too. Though only for rabbits without weight issues. If they tend to get hefty I keep them on just straw. If they get hay and have no issues I may chop straw and blend it in to be sure they have enough GI movement from good fiber.

I used to raise satin angoras. Back then there was an incident of corn getting in the blue bags and it got on the recall but I heard about it too late and lost all 25 rabbits. I was told by the company it wasn't their food's fault it was mine and that was it. Devistated and unable to afford a full study on the rabbits, I let it go. I am looking at other brands but the Blue bag was what these two happened to be on when we got them so that is what we bought too.

I really can not remember the brands they had, I know I had not heard of them before, one was made by purina and was almost $3 dollars cheaper than the blue bag. They smelled musty, moldy and kinda foul. They had little beatles, things that looked like mutant roaches and some kind of moth in them and on them. Very unattractive. I should be going out that way again after the 5th I can check and see if things improved and grab the names of the food brands then.

I am also open to recomendations for a different brand that can be found online without killer shipping fees!

 

[dixonsrabbitry1]

manna pro did the same thing to me last year during the eed scare, when corn toxins got in the feeds. they had me send them samples to "test' the feed. they said there was nothing wrong. yeah right. Went to purina rabbit chow and haven't had any problems since.

Crimped or whole oats are good for rabbits. They are a wonderful conditioner, and will also help with weight issues as long as they fed are fed in limited amounts. The only type of crimped oats that are bad for rabbits is quick, and instant oats. basically any type that cooks in less then 3-5 minutes.

 

[mistyjr]

I have heard from some people that they just feed their bunnies a tbs of pellets and hay

 

[mistyjr]

dixonsrabbitry1 wrote:

Whats going on with purina? I feed it, and I haven't heard anything. I feed the corn free formula.

I heard that Purina isnt good for rabbits, So I stay away

 

[dixonsrabbitry1]

mistyjr wrote:

dixonsrabbitry1 wrote:

Whats going on with purina? I feed it, and I haven't heard anything. I feed the corn free formula.

I heard that Purina isnt good for rabbits, So I stay away

Where did oyu hear that from? Its one of the best brands on the market. They make some of the best livestock feeds. Complete blend may not be as good as it was before they changed to the "new improved formula", the fiber 3 and show formula are excellent now. My rabbits have never been in better condition on it.

Feeding a tablespoon of pellets a day to a rabbit is way too little to feed them. Good way to make them malnourished.

 

[mistyjr]

I heard it from a stupid lady.

 

[Maureen Las]

dixonsrabbitry1 wrote:

mistyjr wrote:

dixonsrabbitry1 wrote:

Whats going on with purina? I feed it, and I haven't heard anything. I feed the corn free formula.

I heard that Purina isnt good for rabbits, So I stay away

Where did oyu hear that from? Its one of the best brands on the market. They make some of the best livestock feeds. Complete blend may not be as good as it was before they changed to the "new improved formula", the fiber 3 and show formula are excellent now. My rabbits have never been in better condition on it.

Feeding a tablespoon of pellets a day to a rabbit is way too little to feed them. Good way to make them malnourished. 

ACCCCK!!! :shock:

Rabbitries feed their rabbits for showing and breeding

Indoor house pets need to be free fed pellets until they are through growing and after that the pellets become the least important important  part of the diet.

Many indoor rabbits suffer from obesity and other health issues as they age. Most indoor house rabbits need only a small amount of pellets daily in order to thrive.   The main portion of the diet should be unlimited grass hays and greens. An adult house rabbit  (once grown)  needs pellets only to get minerals and vitamins in trace amounts ..like Vitamin D .
My 7 indoor rabbits get no more than 1/8th cup pellets  daily and  and 5 of them are 6 yrs  and over.

 

[dixonsrabbitry1]

angieluv wrote:

ACCCCK!!! :shock:

Rabbitries feed their rabbits for showing   and breeding

Indoor house pets need to be free fed pellets until they are through growing and after that the pellets become the least important important  part of the diet.

Many indoor rabbits suffer from obesity and other health issues as they age. Most indoor house rabbits need only a small amount of pellets daily in order to thrive.   The main portion of the diet should be unlimited grass hays and greens. An adult house rabbit  (once grown)  needs pellets only   to get minerals and vitamins in trace amounts ..like Vitamin D .
My 7 indoor rabbits get no more than 1/8th cup pellets  daily and  and 5 of them are 6 yrs  and over.

We also keep and feed pet rabbits too. The pet rabbits diet is no different then that of a show or breeding rabbit. Rabbits suffer from obesity because their owners overfeed them. Part of that reason is because they are freed fed pellets when they are babies. That is the biggest mistake an owner(breeder, or pet) can make when they have young rabbits. does can develope fat around their ovaries, and have breeding problems. they can also develope fat around the rump and shoulders, which is also not good. Another contributer is being fed all the veggies and greens they want too. Yes those will also contribute to obesity problems, and not just pellets. They need the right amount of pellets to be sure they are getting enough nutrion from them. Also helps prevent GI problems. Rabbits should no less then 1/2 a cup of pellets a day, whether its a breeding rabbit or pet. Going any lower is really pushing it. They need them to maintain proper body weight and condition. Soemthing that some bunnies fed on greens and veggies tend to lack.

 

[Maureen Las]

http://www.rabbitsonline.net/view_topic.php?id=12046&forum_id=17

 

[Pipp]

Hey Dixons, can you trim your posts? We don't need everything repeated from the whole thread, its much neater and easier to read if you just quote the person you're replying to.

I think on this issue we can just agree to disagree on a lot of it, and just keep in mind that every rabbit's diet is different, it depends on the whole environment and balance. There's no 'one size fits all'.

The forum's policy is to promote a varied diet.

The Purina thing is a series of recent posts on various sites and groups over the last week or two blaming it for various outbreaks of illness around the country, but there has been no lab evidence to support it.

However, a varied diet, which includes a lot of different kinds of food including mixing different brands of pellets, will help ward off feed problems if they do exist.


sas

 

[dixonsrabbitry1]

No problem. i can trim them. It would help if I could back and fix the posts after they are posted though. It won't let me edit after a couple of minutes.

I know there are illnesses going on. If it is purina, its probably th ecorn based stuff. A lot of people still feed it, and didn't realize they started adding corn to it last year to "improve it." IMHO the old formula wasn't broke so it shouldn't have been fixed in the first place. The other two corn free brands they make are not part of the problem so far.