Daily rantadine for gas???

[LoveCrumb]

Hi everyone

I just saw a new vet for my rabbit who has the odd bad gas episode, who is otherwise very healthy and has a diet the vet says doesn't need changing. The vet recommended a daily dose of rantadine (antacid) as a preventative measure. I've heard of this used as a therapy for gut motility, but do any of you have experience with this? What about for gas? The vet hasn't ordered it yet because I wanted to do some research first.
More info:
My adult rabbit started having gas episodes just under a year ago. I adopted him almost 2 years ago. He's had three random episodes in the last year. This isn't GI stasis, it's gas specifically and an episode generally lasts 4 hours. He's fine, then suddenly he's stricken with gas, then after belly massage and passing the gas he's suddenly back to normal again. Before each episode, he was given a bit of veg that I thought to be the cause. The first time it was a small piece of cabbage (given for the first time, obviously not given again), the second time it was red leaf lettuce (not given again as well, although he had had it before no problem), and the third time it was a tiny piece of carrot.

The reason why this needs to be treated is because for those 4 hours he is in a huge amount of pain and I'm always terrified that he'll die from the pain- a concern of the vet as well.

Vet suggested having pediatric simethicone and pain medicine on hand if an episode were to occur, but a daily dose of rantadine would be preventative. He seemed to lump all GI issues into one problem and said this would help whatever is going on.
The other vet I saw at the emergency clinic after his first episode said to stop feeding him veggies altogether, except for the occasional treat. Instead, I reduced his daily veggies from 1.5 cups to .5 cups, and he got cilantro almost every day because of its low oxalate/calcium and he seems to tolerate it well. I asked the new vet if the veggies were causing the gas and he said it was unlikely, whereas the first vet generally seemed to think you should never give rabbits anything other than hay, regardless of health, which seemed extreme to me.
Because such a huge amount of time passes between his episodes and because his symptoms are quick to appear and just as quick to leave, I first believed I was causing the attacks with the veg, but the new vet suggested otherwise. Can you guys offer me any wisdom? Thank you.

 

[Watermelons]

If the gas episodes are happening after he is given certain vegetables, it sounds like the vegetables are to blame. Not ALL rabbits can handle veggies.
If he handles cilantro well you can continue with that but honestly I would be cutting out the veg and just ensuring he is eating ample hay.
It would be nice to have all those meds on hand but I don't like the idea of giving it to him daily.

 

[katiecrna]

I have no experience with rantadine personally. I do have simethicone on hand all the time though.
I don't think a vet can say it's the veggies for sure, or it's not the veggies. I think that is something that you will have to test at home for yourself. I think it's good you reduced the veggies. Because it doesn't happen that often I would just reduce the veggies and be very cognizant of what veggies you feed him and always keep simethicone on hand. If he gets gas again, give him the simethicone and give him a belly massage and it should pass faster than 4hrs with the meds.

Who knows maybe it is the veggies, you are going to have to be the one to test that out a vet can't know that answer. It's up to you if you want to try rantadine daily. My opinion is if it doesn't happen often I wouldn't bother but if it increases in frequency and you can't control it try rantadine. If you don't like it you can stop it.

 

[ladysown]

Some rabbits come from lines where they are not fed veggies. They are bred to function well on pellets alone.

I have one in my herd that can't do veggies, his breeder FIRMLY believes that feeding veggies to rabbits will kill them..and quite often it does. My mindset is that slow and easy wins the game... and if your bun can't handle many fresh foods then simply don't give him very much OR... follow my recommendation

The fresh foods just might be what is causing trouble for your rabbit and I would cut them COMPLETELY out of his diet. He will probably do best on a hay and pellets only diet.

You may find that for a treat he can handle toasted bread cubes or oatmeal flakes. YOU COULD try mixing fresh foods WITH short pieces of hay.... that method works for some rabbits that are prone to gas due to fresh veggies... that's a trial and error method though.

THE WORST thing you can do is give them to him randomly. Rabbits develop the gut flora to handle the foods they are given regularly.. doing a hit or miss method isn't the best method for rabbits.

 

[LoveCrumb]

You guys have helped me more than you know. Thank you so so much. With the research I've done and your input, I've made a plan I feel very comfortable with for the time being.

I've decided to completely take him off veg and see how he fares. I was thinking hard about it because I love my bunny to pieces and I need him happy and healthy. The thing is, those three episodes aside, he's in excellent shape. He has no symptoms or health issues otherwise and he bounces back from the episodes so quickly. He just isn't in the condition he needs to be for daily rantadine to be necessary. It just doesn't feel like the right step for him at this point. I searched other rabbit rantadine threads/ forums/ essays/ blogs online and the people who used rantadine every day say their rabbit would be dead or always sick without it. For my bunny, this just isn't the case, not even close! So I will consider that as a good option if he does continue to have these episodes.

For now, I've purchased Metacam from the vet (they only had chicken flavoured ughh), bought some Pediatric simethicone (no alcohol, colour, artificial flavour) from the drug store and I have critical care on hand, which feels like a good emergency kit.
After I had already mentally made this decision, the vet got back to me today about the cost of the rantadine- 60$ for 60 days, so essentially a dollar a day for the rest of his life. I also take rantadine daily and my prescription costs me 25$ a year, so I was surprised by how expensive this option was. I have to wonder what other vets have charged for a similar treatment.

 

[JBun]

After I had already mentally made this decision, the vet got back to me today about the cost of the rantadine- 60$ for 60 days, so essentially a dollar a day for the rest of his life. I also take rantadine daily and my prescription costs me 25$ a year, so I was surprised by how expensive this option was. I have to wonder what other vets have charged for a similar treatment.

Or you could take a tablet from the store and split into the appropriate dose... if you end up needing to give this. Another cheaper option if you want a liquid suspension, is to have a compounding pharmacy compound it for you. I've had this done for other meds for my rabbits, and it's much cheaper. You just have to make sure they use a suspension that doesn't contain artificial sweeteners(particularly xylitol).

I think trying no veggies is a good course. It will help you to narrow down the cause. I've had to do elimination diets for some of my rabbits with sensitive digestions, but for mine it's always been the pellets that have caused the issues. I had one bun that kept getting stasis, til I discovered that it was the pellets. Removed them from his diet and he never had stasis again. But buns can be sensitive to certain veggies too. I think I remember Azerane's bun getting gas from turnip greens, if I remember right, or maybe that was whitelop's bun. And I've read of some people's buns being sensitive to particular types of hay. So there really are several possible causes for digestive upset.

 

[Watermelons]

Chicken flavoured metacam? What?
I have never heard of such a thing....
Is this by chance an off brand or house made? Normal METACAM brand meloxicam is perfect for rabbits because its a nice sweet sticky almost honey tasting liquid. (Yes tasted it many many times). As far as I know Metacam does not exist in "chicken" flavour.

 

[LoveCrumb]

Chicken flavoured metacam? What?
I have never heard of such a thing....

Yup, me neither. For my first bunny who experienced GI stasis, I had banana flavoured metacam on hand that he eagerly devoured. This was in a different city, however. I am NOT happy about them only having chicken flavoured- it's meant for dogs and cats and it's not metacam brand. I complained and said that I've used fruit flavoured before and the nurse acted like she had never heard of it. They said they've prescribed this flavour to other rabbits at their practice. I think they're just trying to save money because they're a small practice. I've been to two of the three rabbit vets in this city and I haven't been very happy with them. The reason I decided to try this new vet was because the other vet was condescending and treated me as though I had no basic knowledge of how to care for a rabbit and they charged me 40$ for a tiny bag of critical care. There is one other rabbit vet in town that happens to be about a 5 minute walk from my house but they only offer basic care and no diagnostics. Here's hoping that I'll never have to even USE the meloxicam and he'll never have to suffer the taste. In the meantime, I'll be trying to find a different source for the stuff or insist they order metacam.

 

[LoveCrumb]

Or you could take a tablet from the store and split into the appropriate dose... if you end up needing to give this. Another cheaper option if you want a liquid suspension, is to have a compounding pharmacy compound it for you. I've had this done for other meds for my rabbits, and it's much cheaper. You just have to make sure they use a suspension that doesn't contain artificial sweeteners(particularly xylitol).

I think trying no veggies is a good course. It will help you to narrow down the cause. I've had to do elimination diets for some of my rabbits with sensitive digestions, but for mine it's always been the pellets that have caused the issues. I had one bun that kept getting stasis, til I discovered that it was the pellets. Removed them from his diet and he never had stasis again. But buns can be sensitive to certain veggies too. I think I remember Azerane's bun getting gas from turnip greens, if I remember right, or maybe that was whitelop's bun. And I've read of some people's buns being sensitive to particular types of hay. So there really are several possible causes for digestive upset.

Thanks for the advice! Yeah, the vet did suggest that a timothy hay diet was better than orchard grass and he wants me to switch Teddy over to it. I've been trying to do this exact thing for the last 6 months since timothy is much more readily available, and on a good day it's only 25% of his total hay intake. I've tried just leaving timothy in his cage (and we're talking beautiful fresh hay) and he just doesn't eat the quantity that he needs and I get nervous and start giving him the stuff he'll eat. He's currently on oxbow pellets.

As for the medication, I'm not sure how to approach this. I suppose I would have to be honest with the vet and say that I need a less expensive option but I need to know the dosing. I'm not sure how cooperative they would be with me but it's worth a try if that's the route I end up taking. I just looked up compounding pharmacies (I'd never even heard of that until now- thanks) and there's some in my city. Would I also get my liquid suspension from the compounding pharmacy?

 

[Watermelons]

Thats insane. I cant imagine chicken flavour metacam. Ive licked METACAM brand metacam off my fingers so many times i love it. Sticky and sweet.....
You can always ask for a written perscription and buy the brand name stuff off one of those pet medication sites.

Phone aroud to pharmacies BEFORE you have you vet fax a perscription over.
Not all pharmacies have all the fancy flavours. A common one for small animals is Banana or Tuiti Fruity. You dont relly want chicken
You can also enquire as to what strength of the drug your after they have available.
Using 50mg pills vs 5mg pills would greatly reduce the amount of liquid you have to syringe into a rabbit. So find some info out first then chat with your vet. I find it a PITA to get the vet to do that because the receptionist doing it usually screws it up somehow.