Could this be dental problem?

[Bunny parents]

Hello old friends and new friends here It's been ages since last time I posted something on RO. Things were great. Kimiko is now 3 years old. She was fine until now

During Summer she always has less appetite and always eats slightly less than she usually does but since the early of last week I have noticed that something wasn't right. She started from eating less and now she refused to eat pellets and hay. The only thing she ate is greens which I give her once a day.

Last year, during Summer too, we had similar situation and we took her to our vet. She was diagnosed with gum inflammation. The vet gave her shots for few days and she recovered after that.

But this time I took her to a vet (not the same guy as previous year 'cause he wasn't on duty) yesterday and he told us that it could be the same thing like last year. So he gave her a shot and asked me to observe her if she would get better.

Today she still refuses to eat pellets and hay. Now I'm worried We went to the vet, the one who diagnosed her last year) an hour ago. He check her inner teeth and said one of them might be a bit too long He gave her antibiotics shot and asked us to go seeing him again tomorrow. What I'm most concerned of is that I don't know whether these vets know what they are doing. We used to live in Warsaw and there we had an excellent vet who is rabbit specialist but here we have searched and we ended up at this clinic. What I'm worried is that the first vet we met yesterday. He told us that nothing to worry about teeth. Only front teeth are continuously grow but another one said all teeth grow through their life. I was upset and confused that I almost took her home

I have a question. Can dental problem occur after a period of time? I used to think that only rabbits who were born with it can have dental problem. I'm so confused right now. Any suggestions? Thank you for your time and so sorry for a wrong writing. I am so worried about my girl.

 

[JBun]

Dental issues could certainly be the cause of her not wanting to eat certain foods. Yes, dental problems can occur over time even if they aren't born with any teeth issues. Both the front and back teeth are always growing, and if that vet doesn't know that, I would be concerned about having my rabbit checked by that vet. Fiber from hay, food, and branches are what help keep a rabbits teeth worn down evenly. If they aren't getting enough fiber in their diet, or they are born with tooth problems, those teeth can start to wear unevenly and they can develop sharp points that can cut into the cheek and tongue. As rabbits age they can also have teeth that become loose at the base and sometimes an abscess can form. They can also get teeth that instead of growing up, they grow down into the jaw, and that can cause problems. It would probably be a good idea to have the back molars checked for sharp points, but most concerning is the inflammation. I would be worried about a possible abscess. It would probably be a good idea to get a radiograph done so that the vet can get a good look at what might be going on and make sure there isn't an abscess, loose teeth, or elongated tooth base. Here are a few links explaining dental problems in rabbits. You may want to print them out and take them with you to the vets.

http://www.bio.miami.edu/hare/dental.html
http://www.bio.miami.edu/hare/jawabscess.html
http://www.medirabbit.com/EN/Dental_diseases/Dental_diseases_main.htm

 

[Bunny parents]

Thank you so much for the information. Now I'm searching for a new vet. It's so difficult for me to find a rabbit specialist here. I don't even know any other rabbit owners in this town. I asked them for getting a radiograph on her but they said they can't do it here. When I asked where else I should go. They only told me to wait another day to see if she will get better :-/ I was really upset with the previous vet we met yesterday. At the beginning he didn't want to give her any shots. Just ran a quick check on her front teeth which my husband and I had to tell him twice that we suspected the strange chewing behavior, like she couldn't chew on food 'cause it's hurt. At first he asked me to take her home and observe for a day or two. So I told him I've observed her and that's why we came :-/ Gosh!
She usually eats hay a lot but she has started eating less probably about two weeks ago when it was so hot here in Poland. Could these two weeks is the cause? Despite of refusing to eat pellets and hay, she is still playful and flops everywhere. I will keep searching for a better vet, someone I can trust. Thank you very much again.

 

[JBun]

Heat can affect how much a rabbit eats, so there could be some decrease of appetite. But when the temps are normal and a rabbit is selectively eating for more than just a day or two, dental problems are a very likely cause of the change in eating.

Even here in the US where you would think there are lots of good rabbit vets, it can still be hard to find one, and sometimes you have to travel a good distance to get there. If you're not too far from the vet in Warsaw, it may be worth it to take your rabbit there, as it often takes an experienced rabbit vet to be able to diagnose and treat dental problems correctly. Or maybe call them and ask if they know of any good rabbit vets near your present location. Or maybe you could find somewhere that you could get a radiograph done, then have it sent to the good vet in Warsaw to get their opinion.

The problem with waiting too long when there is a serious dental problem, is if the rabbit is not eating much, it can progress to not eating at all and GI stasis and a blockage can occur. Then it can go downhill from there. So dental problems can actually be pretty serious. If it turns out to be a simple tooth spur, that can usually be pretty easily fixed by putting the rabbit under GA and filing the sharp points down, but even this should be performed by a vet that knows what they are doing with rabbits, or the rabbit may not survive being put under anesthesia. So you definitely need an experienced rabbit vet, no matter how simple or complicated a problem it turns out to be. I can see why you aren't terribly impressed with that one vet. I think I would have taken my rabbit out of that office very quickly. I would be scared to let a vet like that, treat my rabbit.

 

[Maureen Las]

Do you have animal dentists in Poland? Some dentists treat exotics which would include rabbits . My bun with malocclusion was treated by an animal dentist rather than an exotics vet.

 

[Bunny parents]

I'm so sorry for late reply. Things have gone crazy lately Kimiko still doesn't eat much. After we have changed the vet (first visit was on Wed. 28/08). The new vet checked on her and said that theer was one tooth inside her mouth that slightly sharper than others. I asked her on that day to do the x-ray but unfortunately she couldn't do so. She changed the antibiotics which she said the new one she gave my girl is for oral bacteria. She appointed us to take Kimiko there on Monday 02/09 because there will be another vet who can do the x-ray and she said if the antibiotics woouldn't help, so on Monday they will trim that tooth About taking her to the vet in Warsaw, we also considered it and already contacted him but the city we live in now is quite far away from Warsaw. The vet, in Warsaw, suggested us to do an x-ray and see if we can find a vet in our city first. He's afraid the traveling might stresses her more. Also with my condition now I can't travel so much :'( I'm pregnant and my due date is less than a month. :'( I know it sounds like lots of excuses but I really don't know what to do. All I can do now is to keep persuading her to eat. Since the change of antibiotics from Wed, she eats parsley and koper which are her favourites. I also soaked her pelllet with water and gave her. She ate but not so much. She still uses her litter box but her poops are getting smaller. I'm so worried about tomorrow. I hope we will find something and the vet will be able to cure her. Right now I'm so stressed, worried about her :'( My girl has never been sick before and this is killing me. Thank you for your advices. I'll keep you posted how it goes tomorrow. Please keep your finger crossed for us Thank you so much again.

 

[Srecko]

Our prayers are with you, your husband and Kimiko! Try not to stress toooo much, for your baby's sake! <3 Keep us posted.


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[Bunny parents]

Here's an update of Kimiko after visiting the vet today.
The vet did an x-ray and ran an exam in her mouth. He trimmed one molar tooth which he said it didn't look serious, only a bit sharper than others. Also he found an inflammation on her gum. There was a small piece of food (looked like hay, he said) stuck on her gum and it made her gum swallen. He took it out and cleaned the wound. He gave her a new antibiotics called Floron which stronger than the previous one she got. He gave us one dose of shot to give her tomorrow at home. My husband will be the one who gives her ( he knows how, lucky us) so Kimiko will not be so stressed. If there is any improvement after coulple days, we will stick to this dose of antibiotics for 7 days. He also gave us her teeth x-ray to send to the vet in Warsaw for a second opinion (the one who is a rabbit and exotic pets veterinarian). We already contacted him and sent him the x-ray and a copy of what type of medicine she's been given. He will contact us back as soon as possible.

When we arrived home she didn't run right the way to her hiding spot. Insteads, she laid down next to her litter box in the living room, looked relaxed for me 'cause she laid down with her hind legs fully stretched out. After about 10 minutes, she drank water, pretty much a lot. I saw her drinking water 3 timee. Then she went to her room.

I noted down her eating and taking medicine activities;
18.50 pm: drank water
18.57 pm: drank water
19.07 pm: drank water
21.15 pm: one small piece of oat
22.00 pm: we gave her a medicine for her stomach (I'm sorry for my English. I don't know the word but you know.. the medicine we take during we are treated with antibiotics)
23.15 pm: a small amount of romaine lettuce and dill leaves

It's 00.12 am here and she is still in her room. I'm quite happy that she ate something. I thought she wouldn't eat and might start eating tomorrow. She didn't eat much but still something in her stomach. I feel a bit better after coming back from the vet. We all hope that the reason she refuses to eat is that the gum inflammation. I will keep you guys posted again. Thank you very much again for your advices and support. It means a lot to me. We don't have any "Bunny parents" friends here. So it's really nice to be able to talk with you guys here. I'll try my best not to be so stressed any more. I will keep urging her to eat. My husband tried to do so but she didn't take any food from him. I guess it is because most of the time I am the one who feed her and give her treat. As we know, mommy is like a refridge and daddy is more like a playground or it's only at my house. I will go to sleep now. Hopefully, tomorrow my girl will feel better. Good night everyone. Sweet dreams. :bunny19

 

[nora123]

Hi did the vet give her a gut stimulant like metoclopramide to keep her gut going after she had an anaestetic and pain releif I would liquidise and syringe feed her some of her pellets until she is eating her hay and pellets again greens will encourage her to eat as long as she is used to them of course, I know how you feel I have just got one of my bunnies back from the vet after having her back teeth rasped my vet usually gives pain relief gut stimulant and I have just syringe fed her they are such a worry you will probably have to take her to have her back teeth looked at on a regular basis once she has shown signs of back teeth spurs. The main thing is to keep her stomach going as its hard to get it going if her stomach goes into stasis. good luck.

 

[JBun]

I'm so glad you were able to find a better vet. And it sounds like the dental went well. Hopefully the trim and antibiotics clear up the problems your rabbit has been having. That's good too, that the exotics vet is going to check over the xray. It will at least give you some peace of mind to have a second opinion from a good rabbit vet.

That's really good that she has already eaten some food. Sometimes after this kind of thing, it can take them several hours before they want to eat anything. Would the medication for her stomach be probiotics? That's good if it is as it's important to give when giving antibiotics. If you weren't given this instruction, it's best to wait at least an hour or two after giving the antibiotics, to give the probiotics, so that the antibiotics aren't canceling out the probiotics. Did the vet also give you an anti inflammatory pain med, like Metacam? If not, you may want to ask about getting some as it should help with the inflammation and any pain from it, and may help get her eating normally sooner as pain is usually what stops their eating. It looks like your Floron may be the equivalent of our chloramphenicol, if so that should be a good antibiotic for this. Just keep an eye on your rabbits eating as this antibiotic can sometimes cause a decrease in appetite.

 

[Bunny parents]

I'm so glad you were able to find a better vet. And it sounds like the dental went well. Hopefully the trim and antibiotics clear up the problems your rabbit has been having. That's good too, that the exotics vet is going to check over the xray. It will at least give you some peace of mind to have a second opinion from a good rabbit vet.

That's really good that she has already eaten some food. Sometimes after this kind of thing, it can take them several hours before they want to eat anything. Would the medication for her stomach be probiotics? That's good if it is as it's important to give when giving antibiotics. If you weren't given this instruction, it's best to wait at least an hour or two after giving the antibiotics, to give the probiotics, so that the antibiotics aren't canceling out the probiotics. Did the vet also give you an anti inflammatory pain med, like Metacam? If not, you may want to ask about getting some as it should help with the inflammation and any pain from it, and may help get her eating normally sooner as pain is usually what stops their eating. It looks like your Floron may be the equivalent of our chloramphenicol, if so that should be a good antibiotic for this. Just keep an eye on your rabbits eating as this antibiotic can sometimes cause a decrease in appetite.

Oh yes, that's it. It's the probiotics he gave her. Yes, he told us to give it to her 1-2 hours after antibiotics. He didn't give us any pain meds to give her at home. I will ask him on Wed 'cause we need to go back there for checking up and to see if the antibiotic works. He gave us a medicine for appertizer. I can't read his handwriting :-/ He told us to give her this 3 times a day, 7 drops per each time.
This morning I found some poops in her litter box,still dried poop but smaller size than usual. I left her some food for the night and I found some romaine lettuce,dried dandelion flower and dried leaves missing. She still hasn't eaten any pellets yet. I hope she will at least nibble some. If not, Should I start giving her a critical care food? Or should I wait?

 

[Bunny parents]

Hi did the vet give her a gut stimulant like metoclopramide to keep her gut going after she had an anaestetic and pain releif I would liquidise and syringe feed her some of her pellets until she is eating her hay and pellets again greens will encourage her to eat as long as she is used to them of course, I know how you feel I have just got one of my bunnies back from the vet after having her back teeth rasped my vet usually gives pain relief gut stimulant and I have just syringe fed her they are such a worry you will probably have to take her to have her back teeth looked at on a regular basis once she has shown signs of back teeth spurs. The main thing is to keep her stomach going as its hard to get it going if her stomach goes into stasis. good luck.

Thank you so much. I haven't syringe fed her yet. I planned to do it today. I prepared it and went to her room. At first I gave her some greens, she ate some. Then I tried giving her dried leaves from her hay bag. She ate it and this time she ate more than ever since she's been sick. So I didn't want to force-feeding her now. I will see if tonight she will eat more. If not, I will start syringe feeding her. Thank you so much. Yes, it's really frustrating. I hope the main cause of her sickness this time is the gum inflammation. I really do hope we are on the right track.

About her pain med. We called back to the clinic. The vet said she got a pain med shot yesterday after the teeth trimming and cleaning her inflammed wound. So this afternoon and my husband and I will go to the clinic and take some pain med back home, so we can give her ourselves.

I will keep you guys posted.

 

[Srecko]

How are the pain meds coming along? Is it just inflammation?


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[Bunny parents]

How are the pain meds coming along? Is it just inflammation?


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Hello. Kimiko is better a bit now. Last friday (06/09/2013) was the last day of Antibiotics shot but since Thurday night she started having gooey poop and it became almost like water on Friday. We went to the vet on Friday and the vet decided to stop giving her shot as it might caused her having diarrhea. Through this weekend, the vet asked me to stop giving her so much greens and see if she can eat hay and pellets. I've also started syringe feeding her (liquidlised pellets mixed with her probiotics and a medicine for her gut reluctant) since Friday evening. On Saturday eveniing I could see she had more strength and her stomach wasn't so noisy like before. She also started munching on hay and dried leaves.

Today (Sun. 08/09/2013) She ate pellets on her own in the morning (about 6-7 pieces) and through the day I kept urging her to eat and she ate 1-2 pieces each time. I can see that she's hungry and she can munch on hay better than pellets. Everytime she chews on pellets, I still notice that she's not so comfortable chewing on them and she chews very slowly.

The vet asked us to call tomorrow. She said if the diarrhea stops, so we can see if we should give her more medicine. For my opinion, I have no knowledge in medicaal treatment but speaking as her mommy, I really think that the inflammation isn't totally cured yet. She usually loves her pellets and will choose it over other food. I can see that it doesn't hurt her much like before but she still chews a bit oddly. What do you guys think we should do? Should I wait to see if she will recover by herself? Does the inflammation need to be cure or it can go away by itself? I'm just scared of the fact that giving her antibiotics will upset her stomach and decrease her appertise again

PS. about pain med, the vet gave her only another dose on the following day after she got checking up. She said that it's not good to give bunnies so much pain med because it will harm their liver.

I also will ask the vet about the antibiotics "chloramphenicol" that you guy suggested. I wonder if she already got it. If so, what else can she get? I have a House Rabbit Handbook by Marinell Harriman. I read it and still have no clues :-/

 

[Bunny parents]

Oh I forgot to write one more thing. Since last night her poo is no longer watery nor gooey. It's hard and a bit bigger but still smaller than usual one.

 

[JBun]

I'm glad the diarrhea cleared up. That can happen with some antibiotics and it can be a really dangerous thing for a rabbit to develop. But it sounds like she is doing much better. I guess it would depend on how bad this infection is, on whether or not she still needs antibiotics. But then you also have to balance the risk they pose to a rabbits digestive tract. You don't want her getting diarrhea again. If the vet still sees some inflammation in there, you will probably need to put her on antibiotics again, as the infection won't clear up on it's own. But it would be really good to use a different antibiotic as that one has shown to cause problems for her. I thought what you were giving her was similar to the chloramphenicol that we have here, but I could be wrong. I've read of injectable penicillin being used. We have something called bicillin which is penicillin G procaine/penicillin G benzathine. I don't know if you have this available there. But it can ONLY be given as an injection, NEVER orally. Was the antibiotic she was getting, injectable or was it given orally? If you need to, you can look over these antibiotic lists for rabbits. It shows what antibiotics are safe for rabbits. Some antibiotics are only safe if injected and can be fatal if given orally.
http://www.medirabbit.com/Safe_medication/Antibiotics/Safe_antibiotics.htm
http://www.medirabbit.com/Unsafe_medication/dangerous_antibiotics.htm

Some pain medication can cause problems if given too often to rabbits, so your vet is right about that. Metacam is considered a relatively safe anti inflammatory for rabbits even when given long term. I've read of accounts of rabbits having to have it many months, even years, and so far haven't experienced any ill effects from it. But I don't know if you have access to metacam in your country.

Your poor little rabbit has been through so much. I really hope you are able to get her feeling better again.

 

[Bunny parents]

To JBun,
Thank you so much for your reply. The antibiotics she got called Floron which was given as an injection. My husband know how to give a shot, so we took whole dose back home to reduce the stress from traveling to the clinic. I will contact with her vet tomorrow and she what she will decide to do.

I'm glad that she's better too but still so confused why she doesn't want to eat her pellets much. So far the vet here and another vet in Warsaw, who we sent her x-ray result to him for a second opinion, they both agreed that there was no abnormalities in her teeth. So it should be inflammation. The vet told us that the inflammed area was on the left side of her mouth and it could only be spotted by giving her anaesthetic.

She's much more active now and seems to have more appertise but instead of eating pellets, she prefers to bite the wall :-/ I hope she will get well very soon. Thank you again.
http://dict.longdo.com/search/anaesthetic, general

 

[Bunny parents]

Here is an update about Kimiko

She still doesn't eat pellets. We have been force feeding her since Monday. I'm so worried now. Also it seems like her diarrhea isn't gone yet. It's not like she is having watery poop but it's not hard round one. We called the vet and he said there's nothing we can do now but to wait and see because she's too weak and it' will be dangerous to put her through another dose of antibiotics. She seems stressed and annoyed everytime we force feed her I fear for her. Right now we can only keep force feeding and observe her until next week and we will decide if she's strong enough to take her to the vet. So the vet can take a look in her mouth again.

I syringe feed her every 4 hours with the amount of 10-20 ml of food each time. Is this too much/ too less? (She's a Mini lop and weigh around 4 kgs.) but tomorrow I will be at home alone because my husband has to go to work and we will be able to force feeding her only in the morning and in the evening when he will be back.

The vet also said that there wasn't much inflammation in her mouth and her teeth are ok. So I don't know what else we can do? Of course he will check the inflammation again but what if it's not the cause, then what could this be? I can't figure out what causes her to stop eating pellets. It started from eating less during those hot day in Summer which happens every year but now it's colder and she still doesn't want to eat.

 

[nora123]

Hi has the vet not suggested emepride or metoclopramide these are both gut stimulants she may have had a gassy stomach originally or a fur ball whenever mine have stopped eating the vet has given pain relief and gut motility if its gas maybe you could purchase some of the baby medication for wind but if its gut stasis she really needs metoclopramide or emepride 3 times a day to get her back eating no 20 mls is not too much also trying syringing her luke warm water as well to keep her hydrated. have you fed her veg originally like cabbage sprouts broccoli etc which may have given her gas you really need to get her a gut stimulant and pain meds try her with fresh grass dandelion and fresh herbs just to tempt her to eat really hope this works

 

[Bunny parents]

Hi has the vet not suggested emepride or metoclopramide these are both gut stimulants she may have had a gassy stomach originally or a fur ball whenever mine have stopped eating the vet has given pain relief and gut motility if its gas maybe you could purchase some of the baby medication for wind but if its gut stasis she really needs metoclopramide or emepride 3 times a day to get her back eating no 20 mls is not too much also trying syringing her luke warm water as well to keep her hydrated. have you fed her veg originally like cabbage sprouts broccoli etc which may have given her gas you really need to get her a gut stimulant and pain meds try her with fresh grass dandelion and fresh herbs just to tempt her to eat really hope this works

Thank you so much for your reply. I was about to come and post here. Yes, she's got the gut reluctant from the vet and we were told to give her 3 times a day by mixing into hey syringe feeding.

First time she had the diaarhea, the vet and I were pretty much sure that it caused by the antibiotics she got. Once we stopped giving her the med and gave her only probiotics + gut reluctant, she was better after 2 days. The second time started last night. I spotted her blanket covered with watery poo and it hit me. We were told by the vet that this week we need to make her diarrhea stops before we can decide to put her on another dose of medicine. Last night I was watching her and it hit me. We haven't given her any med, only give her fresh hay, water, syringe feeding and greens. I think greens and the pellets in syringe feeding might be the reason why she has diarrhea again because today I haven't given her any greens nor that pellets since morning and her poops are no longer watery, just round and dry but still small size.

About pellets, we haven't thought about it earlier. I'm not even sure now whether it's the problem or not. For short, I used to give her Beaphar Care+. I know that you might suggest us to give her something else, for example Oxbow which we used to give her this 2 years ago but they are no longer available in Poland anymore and Beaphar is the best one we can find. I really can't afford to ship the Oxbow pellets from somewhere else. it's very pricey Anyway, we were running low of pellets and since the vet suggested us that my girl is too fat (She's a Mini Lop and weighs 4kgs), so we decided to switch to Beaphar Care+ for senior rabbits which contains less protein for less active bunnies. I started introducing it to her about a week or two before she got sick. I added it very little each time ( like couple pieces at the first time, then double of that and on). It was fine back then. She showed no signs of upset stomach. But now since we can't figure out what causes her not eating pellets, it makes me wondered. Could this be the pellets? I read on ingredients and the difference between the old one and this new one is that the New one (Care+ for seniors) contains extract of green tea and ginseng. Can bunnies eat those? :-/ I can't find anything about this.

About greens, she usually gets it once a day (dinner time) but now that her stomach was upset from medical treatment and stuffs, so I don't give it to her today. I'd like to check if it's the reason.

About my girl, I've been observing her since morning. She stopped having watery poops since morning, around 08.00 to be exact. I also watch her munching on hay which I think she chew it normally but when I give her pellets and "if" she takes it into her mouth, she will chew strangely and even split it out too. She has been munching on hay whole day. Could it be that we've been force feeding her and now she hates the pellets? We will take her to the vet next week to have a check in her mouth one more time. But I start to suspect that it might not be a sickness problem anymore. Any thoughts? Right now I give her only hay, water and the old pellets. She seems to be hungry and keeps begging me for greens It's really hard for me to go on tough love process with her because I'm scared that I might starve her. I know that they won't starve themselves but... it's just really difficult. If she can munch on hay, so it shouldn't be teeth problems or inflammation,right?

I'm sorry for bothering you guys here so much, My husband and I really don't know what to do with her.