Confused about pigmentation of babies

[Sabine]

We took the first pictures of Ember's babies this morning. They are about 36 hours old now. The two slightly smaller ones are all pink and the largest is rather dark in comparison

I sort of assumed the pink ones must be the Siamese smokes and the darker one a sable as parents are Siamese Smoke/Sable Netherland Dwarfs and I expect only those colours.
I am beginning to wonder though as when I took pictures of Pearl's babies about 24 hours after they were born (both parents smoke) they looked distinctly light gray and seemed to have way more pigmentation than Ember's.
I wonder what the explanation is? Do the darken at different rates or could I end up with REW or other light colours in Ember's litter? The breeder never mentioned anything about REW in their background.
Here is a picture of Pearl's babies for comparison

 

[OakRidgeRabbits]

Out of Siamese x Smoke, you could end up with REW, I believe.

 

[mekkispets]

They do look like there kinda gonna be white allright

 

[Sabine]

OakRidgeRabbits wrote:

Out of Siamese x Smoke, you could end up with REW, I believe.

Could someone break that down for me genetically? I am somewhat surprised as I thought this would only happen if there is REW in the background?

 

[Sabine]

I just looked at soem of the links to the colour guides Peg posted in an earlier thread (and I'll definitely save the links) I am wondering if the pinky babies are sable points as it wouldn't be unheard of to breed sable point to siamese sable. I guess I should see some smutty noses at some stage though?

 

[Shaded Night Rabbitry]

XDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD

Those little pink guys may quite possibly be siamese sables. Sable points are veeeeery light silver, when they start getting furred. And have the points already.

The siamese sable would have to carry the dilute to get smokes.

In my last litter, I got a batch exactly like that. But my cross was sable point to siamese sable. So, unless you know that the siamese sable carries dilute, than I would bet a large amount of money on that litter being a seal and a couple of siamese sables.

I'm almost certain that blackish one is a seal, though. No doubt. Siamese sables darken as they get older. Seals lighten. (In my experience.)

 

[Shaded Night Rabbitry]

Not to hijack your post, but here's photos of my litters with known colors:

Siamese sable, seal, siamese sable, siamese sable.

I wish I had uploaded last night's photo's of the sable points.
Anywho, at two days old, they're *very* light silver, with darker ears/muzzle/legs/butt.

 

[Sabine]

Your three siamese sables look a lot like Pearl's babies. Pearl (a smoke herself) was bred to another Siamese Smoke so their babies are bound to be siamese smoke.
They look so unlike Ember's babies (Smoke/Sable parents):?
I will have to take some better quality pictures during the next few days.

 

[Sabine]

P.S. your babies are really cute
I am confused now about having Seal in my litter. Haven't even considered the colour. I can never figure out the difference between Seal and Sable. Has Seal less brown in it?

 

[Shaded Night Rabbitry]

I should say, those guys where four or five days old, so they're colors even more developed.

I really bank on that dark one being a seal. I've never seen anything out of a shaded litter that comes out that dark, and isn't a seal in the end.

 

[Shaded Night Rabbitry]

Again to hijack your post:
Sorry! Uh. Seals... Are basically reaaaly dark sables... Here:

Here's a seal at 6 weeks:

Here's on at... 3 months?

 

[Sabine]

Hmm I wonder if Sable and Seal are being distinguished in the UK. Just checked the Book of Standards by the BRC but it doesn't list seal for shaded Netherland dwarfs

 

[Shaded Night Rabbitry]

Oh! They're not accepted here. (I actually hope to try and get the COD in a few years... I have to look into that.)

People can try to show them as siamese sables, but if they're too dark, they'll get disqualified.

 

[Sabine]

I assume it's similar here. In the book of standards they list light, medium and dark Siamese Sable. I just wonder how dark is too dark:?
I had another look at the pinkies. They don't look particularly dark around the nose so they are probably not sable points. I do think though their hair is beginning to look slightly silvery. Maybe they are Smokes after all

 

[Shaded Night Rabbitry]

What's behind the siamese sable?

 

[Sabine]

The siamese sable doe was bred from two medium sables. The sire is smoke bred.

 

[Shaded Night Rabbitry]

Then I honestly don't think you'll get smokes out of that breeding. There's a slim chance that the sable will carry dilute, but you can always hope. =D

I guess we won't really know until they're a bit older.

 

[Sabine]

Hmm but her pinkies are even lighter than Pearl's who is smoke and was bred to a smoke (same sire). It's utterly confusing:?

 

[Shaded Night Rabbitry]

Sables darken a looooot. My 3 month olds are still getting darker on their tummies.

 

[BlueCamasRabbitry]

Shaded Night Rabbitry wrote:

Cuuuuutttee!! Is this bunny yours, Megan?

Also, I don't know much about genetics, but REW just has to be a carrier (I believe? Please correct me if I'm wrong!) in the parents, and they could have REW kits. One of my REWs is out of a solid line of chinchillas, blacks, and blues. As far back as the peds go (that I have, anyway), there is just those three colours. So, as long as they carry that gene, which is "c" series, they could pass it on.

Emily