Conan the Bunbarian & Xena Bunnier Princess

[Ilovemyrabbit]

I hope they bond soon!

I've been reading this blog since the beginning, but haven't really posted on it.

 

[Troller]

Thanks for all the well wishes. I have no doubt its going to happen, I just dont know how long. I only started in the end of March and had to take two breaks so progress hasn't been too bad.

Date V

Very relaxed again, I let this one stretch out and it went for 45min. The only time a fight took place was when it was time to put them away instead of putting them back in thier carriers I left the door open for them to waltz in and instead the had a dust up of who gets to go in the carrier.

I truly believe these two can get along fine until a new area or toy is brought in, then the dispute of who gets it takes effect and they fight. So to me it seems they've learned to coexist but still not who's in charge or even if they can just remain equals. The weather was bad today so the Pro Bonder from the rescue couldn't make it today so its postponed until Friday.

And again, thanks for the positives. It keeps me going when I think I just cant deal with it.

***

 

[Troller]

Forgot to mention my poor bird Oberon is yet again laying eggs, which stresses out her cage mage Titania. This is the 3rd time in a year so its very unhealthy for her, so we made a Vet appointment. Our house search is hitting the 3 month mark and it finally seems we might have gotten a good prospect with a fantastic area for the buns & birds. We'll give it another two weeks then seriously put in an decision.

 

[Ilovemyrabbit]

That didn't sound too bad. Than again I don't really know much about bonding bunnies. I'm sure they'll be bonded after time though.

Hopefully it'll go well on Friday!

I'm sorry about your bird. I hope she's okay!

 

[Troller]

Date VI

I guess today's date would be somewhat of a setback. They had good relations and were doing their usual relaxing for 40min and then the tussle started. I let it ride a little but when it looked like they wouldnt settle down i forced it, petted them to calm them together to calm them down, put them in the tub for 5min so they'd realize just because they fought doesn't mean they get seperated that qucikly, and eventually put them in the others cage.

I'm not sure what set them off. No dominance displays, no new thing to fight over, just a tussle because I guess it had been a few dates since they fought. Not despondent over it, I was just hoping we had gone over a hump. Oh well, tomorrow's another date date.

***

 

[Ilovemyrabbit]

I'm sorry it didn't go very well.

Can't wait to hear tomorrowa date, I'll keep my fingers crosed for sucess.

 

[Troller]

Date VII

An interesting rabbit bonding day. After month together, months bonding and multiple cage switches, for some odd reason today they started the poop war. Generally they dont poop outside their litterbox much even when in the other's cage, but throught the day they made sure to pill around. The date was 45min of pure avoidance of each other while leaving the pills around. These pills looked like the usual poop, only the smell was more distinct where usually no scent so it's marking poops, but again odd that now its begining.

Also I did something different for this date, I brought them to the neutral territory in the same carrier. I was a little worried that they wouldnt fit but they did. It stressed them out a bit and forced them to be together which is what I was looking to do. Putting Conan in first was the better idea as if Xena goes in first she starts defending the area and making it hard to put him in. So I think it was succesful but Im wondering if I should keep it up or make it a once in a while thing.

So overall a decent date. A number of oddities, no real postives but nothing too bad either. Tomorrow if all goes to plan then the bonding expert should come to see the progress.

***

 

[Ilovemyrabbit]

I don't know that much about bunny bonding but I'm glad there was no fights or agression! Hope it goes good on Friday!

 

[JBun]

If these two end up bonding, I think you should win the perseverance award!

 

[Troller]

Date VIII

Today's date had an audience, and the whole thing was filled thrills and chills! I had the bunnies in the kitchen, the usual neutral territory and they were relaxed, ate together, lounged around. The expert was impressed how well behaved they were, how they went into their carriers with little problem (I think they were showing off because its never as smooth as it was tonight), and generally how comfortable they were with each other. He asked me did I ever let them into a bigger area, like letting them wander from the pet room into the kitchen (small hallway but both are connected) with their cage doors open. I said I did it once, but they had a brawl and that's how Conan got injured a while back. He said let's try it now since they seemed so relaxed together and I was game. Ooh boy!

Conan ran into Xena's cage, and Xena right after him. The expert went after them but he was a little slow cause he has a bad hip, and he was sort of in my way. They began to circle each other (first time they've ever done that!) and the fur pulling was intense. Since the expert was there first he tried to break them up but he wasn't quite prepared for it and how big they were and he got bitten for it. I was eventually able to get in there and break them apart. I did a thorough check and both rabbits were completely fine, the only injury was inflicted on the expert. The poor guy was so apologetic, he said he had never seen such a thing and he was glad he got injured and not them, and I just felt a bit bad for him cause it worked out the way he did. He told me he's been a part of so many bunny bonds but he's never seen two rabbits quite like mine and their behaviors. They are friendly in neutral territories and extremely violent in their own territories. Here's the kicker though, I was determined not to let the date end on a bad note so I put both rabbits back in their neutral territory and let them be. I waited a bit without interfering and saw no signs of aggression, decided to pet them for a bit to relax them further, fed them a treat, and opened the carriers where they casually walked in on their own. The expert and me talked a little further and he said he'd talk to his expert who's been at rabbit care for decades and get back to me.

You'd think I'd be upset or feel things went bad, but as long as no one got hurt it's all okay. The expert suggested I could clear out the cages from the pet room, clean the room, and try bond them. Technically i could, but the work would be massive, and while I would not have a problem committing to it if I knew for sure it would work I would hate to do this disturbing my rabbits terribly all for it to fail miserably and then erect the cages all over again to keep them separated. Luckily I am looking for a new house and hope to be in one by the fall so I could try it then, and the expert mentioned he'd be glad to come in with reinforcements and help when the time comes. Either way his insight into rabbits and bonding was well worth it and confirmed to me what I had suspected about my rabbits and my progress. I really liked the fact he said my little buns were odd, it made me feel like I was doing well with the bonding, with the picking up on their behaviors and that it wasn't a failure on my part that's keeping them at a stalemate.

**

 

[Chrisdoc]

I have followed these two for so long but haven´t laughed so much at their bonding experiences as much as I laughed tonight at the poor expert getting bitten... I really did laugh out loud. The poor man and then saying that he was glad it was him and not the buns....god bless him.

I´m glad that you got something positive from the experience and it sounds like they will provide more assistance to help you along.

I too am convinced that these two will eventually be together...this has got to be the longest engagement ever and as Jenny says, you deserve an award for perseverance.

Look forward to the next date.

 

[Troller]

Longest engagement? I doubt it. Without the breaks I was forced to take, Ive really been at it only 2-3 months. Thats nothing to some who've had to go throught it for years. I think now its starting to reach the mid ground of bonding time. But as always thanks for the flattery, I kind of need it to keep chugging along in good humor.

Date IX

Started out a little dodgy, with both rabbits rearing amd shuffling to begin a fight but the three times they attempted I was able to cut them off with a stern verbal warning. I'm surprised that worked considering the brouhaha of the other night but it took thank goodnes. The rest of the date was about lying around, nomming and the occasional exploring by Xena. I even started a game with Xena where 's set to stand a paper towel roll amd she'd follow to knock it down. Conan did not want to participate at all, to busy relaxing he was.

The whole date took 40min. A smidge shorter then the recent dates, but I was very tired. The weird thing was however they were both breathing hard like a reved up engine. At one point I could have sworn I heard Conan tooth pur, at least Im almost sure. I could say more but my eyelids are closing. Till later.

**

 

[Azerane]

At the very least it seems like things are progressing Glad you got some good insight from the expert.

 

[Troller]

Date X

Ok the date is still going as of this writing, and its the strangest one Ive ever been a part of or read about. I opened the space up a bit to include the hallway and pet room though their cages were closed. All was well until they stepped outside the kitchen. They rumbled pretty bad with fur pulling, feet kicking out and vicious knockdowns. I pulled them off each other none to gently and placed them back in the kitchen. They were calm again so I tried to open it up again just to the hallway, and again a fight. Put them back in the kitchen and they calmed down and went back to relaxing. So laid back in fact they were nearly on top of each other (I'm adding a pics). Even as I write they are laying closer to each other then they ever did before. WTF!

I really wasn't pushing them to stay together, I just wanted them to calm down enough so I can put them back. But that was not an issue it seems as they were just so laid back I didn't need to do anything extra to clam them down. I am at a complete loss. I got it, neutral territory is friendly, their own territory is hater time, but I'm just astounded by the night and day difference. Usually once a bond is cool in a neutral area you shift to shared territory but how can I do that when I do it they act like they just met for the first time and are enemies. This just seriously confuses me and I've never read about a bond going quite like this.

The date started at 7:30 pm, went bad nearly right away and I put them back in to their neutral territory 10min later. Now its 8:11pm, 30min of total relax time after an epic battle for them. So I'm ending this date in a few minutes but not sure what to call it, a breakthrough or a failure.

**

 

[Azerane]

That is really bizarre.... Have either of them ever marked the hallway with urine or something? I was wondering whether it might help to give the floor a clean with some vinegar, it would likely take away some smells and might make it seem a bit more neutral perhaps?

This is going to be a dumb question but have you been swapping items from their cages?

 

[Troller]

Not a dumb question at all, yes I have swapped things and what's more every other night they are in the others cage. They pretty much share everything at this point. The hallway itself was never either ones territory so I'm not sure sanatizing it would help. I have a small and I'm not so sure how smart it is fear, but I'm wondering if carpeting makes it more desireable to fight. I might try bonding in the bedroom to see what comes of that.

 

[Troller]

Date XI

Today I kept things simple, no new intro methods. It went well, although there was a few lunges and no new friendly manuevers on their part like yesterday. I was running late on everything today so this date was only 35min long.

Spoke to the Bonding Expert about what occursd yesterday and his advice was to keep things as is and that he's got an idea but he wants to double check with others. That's fine, I'm in no rush and just want to bond my little buns as safely and gently as possible. I just fear it really will take something drastic such as a move to an entirely different home or a complete tear down of cages and clean up of the whole house to make things nuetral. Time will tell.

Today I feel a little bad however. I generally get very little sleep so I plan with that but today I overslept, getting an actual 7 hours of sleep! So this made me late and unable to give the pet room the thorough cleaning it warrants. All i could do is empty litter boxes and wash them, and sweep up the cages. No vaccuuming or scrubbing. Oh well they didnt seem too put out but still.

Laslty the birds are going to the vet for their annual check up (they're both now 1'year old!). We're worried that Oberon might have become egg bound, meaning she will never stop laying eggs whichcan be detrimental to her health. We hope the Vet has a solution to what can be done about it cause 3 cycles of egg laying in a year is pretty bad.

 

[PaGal]

I find it odd that if the hallway is neutral territory why did they go at it like that?

I was thinking at first that if they are ok in the neutral territory of the kitchen and only fight when in what they see as their territory (their cages) then if you buy a home they should in theory be fine in the new home from the get go as it is no ones territory.

Sorry if I'm not making much sense as the communication part of my brain always seems to be the last to wake up.

 

[Troller]

Date XII

A pleasant date. They did lunge a time or two straight off the bat but afterwards calmed down, though there felt like a tension throughout the whole date. I'm surprised how well they listen to my verbal commands as I was able settle them by command or whistle. I'm not saying it always works, but 70% of the time aint bad. I also saw that they huddled very close together for pets, closer then usual which heartened me. One thing I do question about bunny bonding is the role of the bonder. See, they relaxed so much because I layed down with them and petted equally and only when they looked like they'd get aggressive. So is that a good sign or do they behave only hecause I enforce it? The whole date went 55min, so we're seeing a steady increase of time, though I can't do anything outside of neutral territory.

***

PaGal, I think they were still riled up some so the neutrality of the hallyway didnt matter. That and the hallway is carpeted while the kitchen is not. Xena does fine on all surfaces while Conan is very uncomfortable on tiles and hardwood. And I'm certainly hoping a move would help, though I truly wish to bond them before we move and just cement it in a new house.

Speaking of, since any new dwelling I have will actually have a yard, I was making some preliminary plans about a stationary aviary/rabbit run. Seemed like a good thought and I was getting all excited until I tallked to a more experienced Flemish Giant owner who explained to me that Flemish's conserve a lot of energy (sweet wordage for being lazy) so they'll look around the perimeter, find a shady spot and set down to eat anything within their circle of reach. A giant sized run would be almost pointless, as well as the idea to leave it stationary since any accumulated poop in one area could lead to parasites and other pests so any run would need to be mobile. The best thing would be short supervised outings in an x-pen. So there goes my intentions of building a grandiose structure. Oh well.

Also, I weighed my little buns today. Conan at 1 years old andanmonth weighs in at 14lb.1oz. and Xena at 8 months is 12lb.4oz. He's about average, perhaps a tad over but well within Flemish guidelines and she might be a little under. Either way I think it's good.

 

[Troller]

Date XIII

A very good date. I do however question if their friendliness towards each other is based on my proximity to them. The whole date was an hour long and at least 40min was spent with theirds heads either forehead to forehead or cheek to cheek. But I was right there, laying with them on my stomach with my own face as close as six inches away. Whenever I would back up to do something they would either disengage, Conan would make a quick move towards her or Xena would lunge (only happened once though). So are they on their best behavior because my presence is either stressing them out or relaxing them (I think relaxing since each is expecting me to pet them) and if so are they truly bonding with each other or just me?

***

Another worrisome thing. Found scabs on each of them, on Xena right below the base of her right ear, in Conan right on his left side. Nothing big, and it looks plenty healed so its old, probably from last weeks scuffle when the Expert Bonder was here. Poor buns I did a check and hadn't seen it until just today so I feel terrible. Maybe it happened later, but thats no excuse for me not to notice. Oh well, neither looks worse for wear and if it that thats been the cause of tension then at least it's something solid to work through. Anyway since the scuffle last week I've had zero tolerance on their aggression so if i even think I see something about to go down I nip it in the bun...Yeah, I made a pun so what!

A few more odd thing I've observed in no order. The buns have been more hostile in each others cages during pen switches, something that never occurred before. Conan's poops have been smaller, yet he still drinks, eats and poops as usual so I'm at a loss. Also since we started putting his food dish and hay slightly further away from his litter box he's been pooping everywhere in his cage so I set it all back to see if that's the cause. He's still leaving marking poops here and there, Xena doesn't, so who knows who's winning. Titania and Oberon's Vet checks went well, Titania is a good weight, Oberon is not so we got to work on her. The Vet said nothing can really be done about her egg laying though except a few little home things so we'll have to manage.