Chalk has another abscess!!

[mouse_chalk]

We've just got back from the vets.

I went to try and pick her up this afternoon and she ran away from me. Feeling determined, I managed to get hold of her, but I noticed a lump, in her stomach, right where she had all the abscesses before. So mindful of how ill she was before, I called the vets and they happened to have a cancellation for this afternoon, so we took her in.

The vet turned out to be one of the good ones who has treated her before. She did a needle aspiration, and it is indeed a very pus-like substance that came out- the thick, gooey almost toothpaste texture

Everything else about her is completely normal- her weight is great, her heart, guts all sound great, she's eating a ton still, and very active. She just displays discomfort when you touch the abscess, but other than that she doesn't appear to be in any pain right now.

The vet has given us Baytril. Yes, Baytril. I know what you'll all say! She said that they aren't licensed for Pen G or anything like that though.... they can get Zithromax, but it has to be ordered in specially, so in the meantime she said to try this. We have an appointment for a re-check Thursday morning, and if it's not looking any better by then, we'll probably go for surgery to remove it. Which has fixed it right in the past, but it would be her 4th general aneasthetic in a year (including her spay last Dec.) so the vet wants to avoid if it possible, hence going for the Baytril... although I don't know if that will do anything. :?

Also, this throws our trip into a bit of a tailspin! We're supposed to be going away to San Francisco on Monday 3rd, for a week. How can we go if she's sick?!! If she has surgery on Friday, how can we leave her on Monday, even if she appears healthy?! I would never forgive myself if something happened to her while we were away...... But at the same time, without wanting to sound selfish, this holiday has already been postponed once due to my operation, and we already cancelled and lost another holiday in September due to my illness.... :?



(For those that don't know, back in May, Chalk had an abscess in her stomach that ruptured, causing Peritonitis, and we almost lost her. Then several weeks later, she developed more abscesses around the site of her stitches, which we believed to be a suture reaction. Both were surgically removed. I'll dig up the threads in a minute...)

 

[Becca]

Awwh no, I haven't got any advice but I hope she's okay

 

[slavetoabunny]

On no!! Poor Chalk. Can the vet board her while you're gone? That way you wouldn't have to postpone the surgery and she will have a professional eye on her while you're gone.

 

[mouse_chalk]

Here's the previous threads from her past abscesses:

The first one, with the peritonitis:

http://www.rabbitsonline.net/view_topic.php?id=35568&forum_id=16&page=1



The second one, when she had the reaction to her stitches:

http://rabbitsonline.net/view_topic.php?id=36033&forum_id=16

 

[mouse_chalk]

slavetoabunny wrote:

On no!! Poor Chalk. Can the vet board her while you're gone? That way you wouldn't have to postpone the surgery and she will have a professional eye on her while you're gone.

I'm not sure.... I could ask, but my concern with that would be that she would be separated from Mouse, Snowy and Barney so it would be very stressful for her :?

Steve wants to just forget the trip altogether..... :?

If, we weren't to see any improvement by Thursday, and we were to try another antibiotic- it seems like Zithromax might be our only other real option. Does it work on it's own? I seem to recall that I've mostly read about it being used alongside Pen G? :? I'm wondering, depending on how she goes for the next couple of days, if it's worth suggesting (and this is from talking to Ali who has been great! :hug trying another medical option, whilst we're away, and then the surgical option if THAT doesn't work.....

I don't want it to sound like I'm only out for the holiday here- I'm really not! I don't know... I just feel like crying I wish that she could just get better overnight and go back to the healthy bunny. But I know that's very unlikely....

 

[tonyshuman]

slavetoabunny has a good idea. she probably wouldn't get as much time out of the cage at the vet's, but if she's recovering from an illness that wouldn't be too bad. good luck~~

 

[LuvaBun]

Oh God, Jen, I can't believe this is happening again. I feel so bad for all of you

I hope that the Baytril will work, but unfortunately, I'm not sure that it will, especially as Chalk has had abcesses before. I think it will take something stronger. I can understand not wanting surgery again, even though it did the trick last time. However, since they were removed, I wonder why she is getting more - and if there is some underlying problem :?.

As for the holiday - you wanting a break is certainly NOT selfish at all, not after your illnesses on top of the bunnies ones. But I know how worried you would be if the abcess hadn't cleared up.

I will be keeping you in my thoughts - what a horrid thing to happen after her Gotcha day, too

Jan

 

[NZminilops]

Oh no , I don't have anything to say except sending you guys my love.

:hug:

 

[TreasuredFriend]

Zithromax 1/4 tablet worked really well for our sanctuary boy Potter who had sneezing issues. If faced with the decision on whether to go or stay, place her with someone you trust and re-evaluate how you'd feel if she deteriorated or permanently closed her eyes while you were gone. I'm so sorry that she's going through this again.
Jen, You'll need lots of support as the days continue. Please get better little darling chalk.
Gentle carresses and tons of love every single day.

 

[JimD]

ray:

 

[mouse_chalk]

Thank you guys so much.... I honestly don't know what I'd do without this place!

I've been reading all the stuff I can. Going back through her old threads, reading articles etc. It's just making me more sad though that she is on stupid Baytril though and not something stronger, to give her a better chance of getting rid of it non-surgically. From what I've been reading, Bicillin is near-impossible to get over here without a special licence (and I can imagine that's no quick thing lol), not so sure about Pen G though...

Need to go have another cry in the kitchen (where Chalk doesn't know I'm upset!) and hope for the best......

 

[Pipp]

You can get Convenia in the UK and that only needs shots weekly or every two weeks. Get your vet to contact these guys:

http://www.noahcompendium.co.uk/Pfi...n_for_injection_for_dogs_and_cats/-43046.html

I'll have to check on the dosage, etc, for rabbits, though. And it is more expensive.

Another option to Baytril may be Chlor Palm. I've been giving Sherry and Lisa oral doses every 12 hours for their mouth abscesses along with penicillin shots every two days.

If you can keep her at home (or at least a place more familiar to her) and get somebody to come in and give her the oral meds, acidophilus, dinner, etc, that would be less stressful. Tall order though. Maybe ask around on RabbitRehome or other UK sites?

Hope this all works out.


Sas ray:

 

[slavetoabunny]

How about getting some Pen-G while you are in the states? You could repackage it in 3 oz. bottles and bring it home. I doubt that it would even be questioned.

 

[mouse_chalk]

slavetoabunny wrote:

How about getting some Pen-G while you are in the states? You could repackage it in 3 oz. bottles and bring it home. I doubt that it would even be questioned.

The article I was reading earlier said that it's illegal to bring Bicillin into the country and use it. Apparently bunny owners have got it through customs somehow, taken it to their vets and asked them to use it, which would have been an offence for the vet as well lol. I'm not sure if the same applies to Pen-G, but I wouldn't want to take that risk! :?

Thanks for the reply Sas. I didn't know about Convenia! I'll have a look at that link and ask the vet about it.... Expense isn't an issue as she's insured... Even if not. if there's a chance it'll work, I'll pay anything!

I'll look up Chlor Palm too... It's nice to know there are a few other options out there to try...

I think i forgot to say this originally but we have also been given Hibiscrub to clean the skin with twice daily. She said that there may be some pus leaking from the abscess as she's had to aspirate it, so we're to clean it with that and warm water twice a day. Chalk's gonna love that! :shock:

Also, she said, and I can't remember if I'm repeating this right or not now, that because of the way they've come up and the way they look, she doesn't think they're related to an infection, so much as inflammation from something? Although who knows what... She said that she has a hunch that if the pus sample was sent to the lab (and I think it is being) that they wouldn't find bacteria in there? But I don't know if I've just repeated that wrong, or that's true/not true at all... :?

What she did mention though, is the idea of doing bloods etc on Thursday probably, just to rule out any possible underlying illnesses that could be causing the abscesses to reappear :?


The plan of care for them while we are away (if we go) is that my mum will feed them, etc in the mornings, and she usually lets them run about for an hour or so. Then a pet sitter from a local company will be coming by in the evenings to feed them. She is a fully trained vet nurse, and medicating is offered in the services, so I presume that she will be ok to do that should it be needed. But Steve is really against the idea of going away while Chalk's sick, so it doesn't look likely..... :?

Blimey, look at all those :? faces! :?

 

[Maureen Las]

Oh what a shame!

Stuff is always happening at the wrong time ..stuff is always happening.

I don't know if I could go if the bun is sick unless I was 100% sure of the pet-sitter.

I don't know much about Convenia except I did pick up a brochure at my vet's; it was advertised for cats and dogs. (but it seems everything is and randy is trying it on rabbits)

Pen G (not bicillin ) but just penicillin should be available in the UK ?? I think! Why not?I am thinking thatmaybe the abscesses were not wiped out by the surgery and by the meds that were used previously .

Zithromax is a good drug but I am unsure if if it would enough for an abscess alone.

You couldn't take bicillin ir penicillinback with you because it needs refrigeration

What a dilemna!
Could try to pm randy as he has been on every few days or so

I'm really sorry about this.

 

[mouse_chalk]

Thank you Maureen

I've yet to meet with the pet sitter in person to exchange keys, and all that stuff.... I need to call them tomorrow and let them know about Chalk, although I'm not sure whether to say that come Thursday they may not be needed or not lol.... Not sure that will go down too well :?

I have a vague recollection that a UK member has used PenG before, I'm sure I remember reading a thread on it.... It occured to me this evening that maybe my vet thought I was referring to it being given orally (which I know is a big no-no) as I know that in the past a different vet thought that the daily travel in for the injections might be stressful for her. I'm not sure if over here they will show owners how to inject bunnies? Actually, they should do, because my mum was given Metacam shots for our dog a month or so ago, but then the vet did know that she is a nurse and used to giving injections.... Saying that, a person is different to an animal, but then again I know my mum could always come round and give the injection if needed. Maybe I should bring her with me to the next vet's appt, as the vets know her really well.... Ok I'm rambling a LOT now lol!

I just want to make sure I'm doing what's right for Chalk.... It's so scary though to challenge a vet, who's gone through God knows how many years of training that they should look at something different, especially when it's one that you respect and like.... if it was a rubbish vet I wouldn't have such a problem in recommending the treatment lol! :?

I will PM Randy, although I don't want to bother him unduly, especially as I know he's been so busy of late...

I nearly burst into tears in the supermarket earlier. It sounds silly, but it's not just this abscess, it's remembering what she's been through already with them, how we nearly lost her. I had forgotten how bad that felt, to not know what would happen to her... And then all the things that have happened this year, and all our bad luck.... I would so much rather have another abscess myself, and have the surgery again, than my poor innocent little baby Chalk have to deal with it all again. It's just not fair on her!

Anyway, I feel I'm rambling a LOT now..... And I must stop moaning, because that doesn't help. It's all about Chalk, and about getting her better. I need a slap round the face to calm me down lol

Thanks everyone! :hug:

 

[mouse_chalk]

Ok, reading it through, I'm pretty sure that none of that made any sense at all lol... Sorry! :?

We cleaned her with the hibiscrub a little while ago. It's just an antiseptic and keeps the area clean, although it is under the skin, the needle aspiration did cause a little bit of blood, but not a great deal. Whether she has surgery or not, I'm not sure if I should ask that they shave the area on Thurs, so that we can see it and clean it better?

Anyway, she is surrounded by all 3 buns now, and Mouse and Snowy are grooming her. So she's well supported by the other bunnies, which is so lovely to see

 

[Maureen Las]

Most of the vets here where I live will not use penicillin on a rabbit because they think that it means wiping out the good gut flora if given orally.
I don't think that they teach a lot of vets to use penicillin subqutaneously so the vets never bother to know that it is OK to use if not given by mouth.

Iwould take your mom with you to the vet if she is a nurse because (I'm a nurse) and I know how to give it by watching the videos in the library and also because I had to give fluids to my dogs when she had renal failure. Your mom could do it and it's possible that the vets could trust your mom.

When the timecomes to go or not to go ( on the trip)you will most likely know whether the trip was meant to be or not. Most likely you will get a feeling that tells you that Chalk will be OK without you or not.

if the vet won't change meds now sometimes they will say 'Let's try this first" and if it doesn't work then they will say "now we can try the zithromax or pen g or whatever."
You can only do what you can do wherever you are. I have been in situations with Babette where I could not get the meds thatI thought she needed and I just had to suck it up and deal with it. It was terrible and all that but we are only humans and we are not vets that can write scripts and just make everything happen

We can only do our best and if that's not enough it's still enough.

If you feel that you cannot challenge the vet you can still bring 2 articles. I took it to one vet who absolutely had no interest in it but the vet who is treating beau has an interest.

here's the articles. just tell them that someone from a rabbit health website told you to bring it with you....
http://www-unix.oit.umass.edu/~jwmoore/bicillin/bicillin.htm

http://www.ontariorabbits.org/health/healthinfo1.1.htm
bicillin is just a short and long acting penicillion given at once but procaine penicillin is short acting and can be given every day. i think that Pipp is giving penicillin benthazine and chlorpalm for girls's abscesses and benzathine is a longer acting penicillin given every other day
Even if your vet wouldn't order it for now ..he might think about it.....

 

[Bo B Bunny]

I wonder what is causing these abscesses?

Jen I'm so sorry! I know this is just awful for you and I wish I knew the answers so you could decide what to do about your vacation.

I'm thinking of you and your little Chalk. ray:

 

[ra7751]

Hi,

Only have a second here...more later. Baytril will not work against abscesses (or much of anything else either). The core of the abscess contains anaerobic bacteria and that type of bacteria just laughs at Baytril. You are somewhat limited by your country's drug regulations. I have worked extensively with drug treatment for abscesses. Pencillin and Zithromax are an effective combination...but the laws there come into play. I have been working with Convenia since it was approved in the US and have used it successfully in domestic rabbits, wild rabbits and gray squirrels. One of my rescue's volunteers (a licensed vet) has also used it in guinea pigs. It is chemically similar to Penicillin. I have not used it with an abscess yet but since it is so close to the Penicillin, on paper anyway...it should be similar in reactions. If your vet will use Convenia....I can't give specific dosing here but we aredosing it as per label...your vet will understand that. More later.

Randy