Carrot has diarrhea!

[MILU]

OMG Carrot has diarrhea..
I don't know how serious this is for bunnies. I don't know what to do.

She eats pellets, carrot tops, cauliflower leaves and broccoli leaves. I gave her some 3 beetroot leaves the other day.

When she got here (this is her 5th night here), her pee was orange (very strong color and smell). She's all orange too (stained) that's why they called her Carrot I guess.. I don't know if she's ok. It seems like she went to the vet before coming to me and they said she's ok - but our vets suck, they also failed to check Bilém's ears, you from RO are the ones who helped me treating her!

Carrot's poop wasn't bad when she arrived, the urine was. Now the urine is better and the poop is weird. Some poops seem ok, just darker, but today I saw diarrhea. I saw her area a bit stained during the day but just saw the actual thing now. There were 3 "watery" footprints and then I she used her toilet and I saw it, took a pic. Even her nose is dirty. I hope I can do something to help her, hopefully without going to the "vets" here, 'cause they always fail to recognize any problems (if they don't actually kill the animal). THANK YOU VERY MUCH for your help!!!

Age: probably less than 6 months (she's rescued, so I don't know for sure)

Breed: I don't know - white new zealand? (or crossbreed)

 

[MILU]

Please help... I don't know if it's her diet.. I hope so! Please pray for her!

 

[MILU]

Just in case - her urine was already curry orange before she had beetroot leaves.

 

[JBun]

Usually for diarrhea it's the kind of thing where you need to get the rabbit to the vet immediately, in part because they can dehydrate so quickly. If you can get her to the vet she'll probably need sub q fluids, and you'll want to have them do a fecal test, to test for parasites/bacteria as the cause of the diarrhea. If you aren't sure of any meds that get prescribed, you could always post here to find out if they are considered safe for rabbits. You should probably also stop the veggies for now in case they are contributing to the problem.

The color of pee can be influenced by the food in a rabbits diet. Dehydration can also affect the look of a rabbits urine.

http://www.rabbitsonline.net/f22/diarrhea-10389/

 

[MILU]

I threw peroxide in the urine and poop - the poop bubbled right away, the urine took 1 or 2 seconds and bubbled too. If there's anything I can do at home, please let me know

 

[JBun]

If she is continuing to have diarrhea and it wasn't a one time thing, and if for some reason you can't get her to a vet right away, you will want to keep her hydrated. If you have and know how to do sub q fluids, then that would be good to give her. Otherwise you'll want to keep her hydrated with electrolytes. You can use something like a plain unflavored children's rehydration solution. If you can't get that, there is this homemade mix:

recipe for Oral Rehydration Therapy (ORT) solution
1 cup clean warm water
2 teaspoons sugar
1/4 teaspoon baking soda
3/16 teaspoon salt (take some out of a 1/4 tsp. or use a rounded 1/8 tsp.)

You'll have to syringe feed it to her if she won't drink on her own. You may also need to be syringing a pellet mush(or Critical Care recovery food if you have it) if she has stopped eating on her own. Make sure to syringe slowly and give her time to swallow so she doesn't aspirate anything. But especially if you are seeing blood, she needs to get to a vet right away, and possibly treated for coccidiosis, which requires specific medications to clear it up. Ones used here in the US are Corid, Sul Met, Di Methox, toltrazuril, and ponzuril. It's also possible a bacteria like e. coli is the cause, and that would need to be treated with antibiotics as well. Just make sure they are rabbit safe ones.

http://www.medirabbit.com/Safe_medication/Antibiotics/Safe_antibiotics.htm

Also check the previous link I provided as there may be other useful info.

If she only had the one bit of diarrhea and seems to be having more normal poop now, see how she does now that you've stopped those veggies. It is possible that she had a bad reaction to one of the veggies, but usually diarrhea seems to be caused by bacteria or parasites.

 

[MILU]

She refuses to eat pellets, can I let her eat carrot?

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR HELP! I'm chatting with 2 people from the rescue group - one is a vet (not sure if rabbit's) .. oh my.. now they said from 7 bunnies of this group, 3 died from diarrhea.. gosh I can't believe it! And they're asking ME what's the reason she's got it!!???
I'm telling you, our vets aren't that great.
They told me to give some honey? And said there's nothing I can do now, nowhere to take her at least until 9 a.m. tomorrow (8 more hours)
I'll do what you told me instead. I trust you, RO has always helped my rabbits. THANK YOU AGAIN!

 

[MILU]

Darn - I don't have a syringe.. I don't know where I can buy one at this time.....

 

[MILU]

hmm can I give coconut water? I have it fresh here. It's usually good for dehydration (in people at leadt)
I can probably try to give her the sub-q if she needs it urgently - I can go find a drugstore and buy a syringe and what she needs. I guess it's better than waiting 8 hours.. she doesn't want to lay down at her usual place.. not a good sign I suppose.

 

[JBun]

If other rabbits from her group have died from this, I would highly suspect coccidiosis as being the cause. It is HIGHLY contagious and can very likely prove fatal if not treated immediately. I don't know if you will be able to get the meds immediately, but she really does need them right now, if at all possible. These are ones used to treat it: sulfadimethoxine, amprolium(Corid), sulfamethazine, ponzuril, toltrazuril. A vet may have one of these or you may be able to find something at a feed store for livestock.

You can soak her pellets in warm water and try and feed them to her. You will either need a syringe with a large opening or you could try blending it in a blender to make it smooth enough to use a syringe with a smaller opening. Any pharmacy will have syringes. You don't want the luer lock type. Usually for syringe feeding 6-12cc is good, and 1cc for giving meds. A dropper could be used in a pinch if you can't get a syringe. If pellets aren't going to work out you can also give plain canned pumpkin(not the spiced pie filling). I have no experience with coconut water. Electrolytes are essentially needed to replace lost sodium and glucose(or sugar). Could you not just mix some up based on the recipe in my previous post?

But the most important thing for her survival right now is the med for coccidiosis and some electrolytes.

 

[MILU]

I made your mix and she's drunk a lot of it!
Is there anything like "too much" of it? I'll keep giving it to her.
I found a small syringe here (1cc), I'm using it for the electrolyte mix.

According to the girls from the rescue group, there's no vet I could take her to right now. Are those meds you mentioned sold in drugstores for people too? If so, tell me which I should buy and I'll go get it now.


I trust you way better than vets here... you guys from RO have always been right, I'll never forget you gave MILU 1 extra year of life (when our "best" vets were killing him giving wrong shots and diagnosis!!!) and RO saved Bilém from ear mites too! Carrot has got to make it, I owe it to her and I trust RO. Thank you for being so kind, Jenny!

 

[MILU]

Good news - I checked her and just saw she's in her cage (bathroom) and there are some poops there, some is diarrheal (not as watery as before, phew!) and a few (very few) are round poops

Her stomach is still roaring and she might still be in pain (or she'd be lain down out of her bathroom) but I guess she'll make it until I can get her meds. Are they safe? Is there one that is safer? Just let me know what I should get, how to give (how much, etc) and I'll do it.

It's likely that the vet won't prescribe but fluids and pellet sludge again, reason why 3 bunnies of her group died already.

 

[JBun]

If you can get food and plain water into her, there's no need to continue with the electrolytes. You probably shouldn't continue it too long because so much straight sugar won't be good on her digestion. It's mostly something to give in the beginning to get them hydrated again, before you start feeding them food.

For coccidiosis, ponzuril or toltrazuril is supposed to work the best and be the most effective, but they may be expensive, at least here in the US they are. The sulfa meds are antibiotics, so you may be able to get them at a pharmacy. I really have no idea though. I'm not absolutely certain on dosages either, but I'll give you some possible dosages that I've come across, but it may be good to try and do some research to be sure.

Ponzuril- 20mg/kg
Toltrazuril- 2.5-5mg/kg once a day for 5 days
Sulfadimethixone- 25mg/kg(?), or 0.5-0.7g/L drinking water
Amprolium(Corid)- 0.07cc/lb(?), or 0.5ml in 500 ml drinking water

There are a few other sulfa meds mentioned that are supposed to be effective as well(sulfaquinoxaline, trimethoprim sulfa), but toltrazuril and ponzuril are supposed to be the best ones to use if you can get a hold of them. They are used for horses, so you may be able to find them at a feed store or large animal vet. If you have non dairy probiotics, it would be good to get her started on that right away as well.

Here are the links where I found the dosage info:
http://www.bio.miami.edu/hare/squirts.pdf
http://www.medirabbit.com/EN/GI_diseases/Protozoal_diseases/Cocc_en.htm (contains graphic pictures)
http://www.merckmanuals.com/vet/exo...ls/rabbits/parasitic_diseases_of_rabbits.html

I of course, can't say for certain if this is coccidiosis. I'm just making a guess from the symptoms you described, and because of the other rabbits dying, so if it is at all possible, getting a fecal test done to confirm it would be a good idea. If it is cocci, you will need to disinfect things with a 10% ammonia solution and rinse everything off after so it is safe for the rabbit.

 

[Maureen Las]

I have only a moment here but (if someone didn't suggest it previously) stop feeding all veggies and pellets and give her a good quality timothy or grass hay . Do not feed fruit or sugary veggies like carrots. Do not give her sugar or honey; it will compound the problem one hundred fold. Until you can get to a vet you can also give a probiotic .
Sorry but due to time I could only skim this thread

 

[MILU]

I never thought I'd say that, but it seems that, for the 1st time ever, I've found a good vet!! The girls from the rescue group indicated him. He was careful enough to examine and see that Carrot might be pregnant, so he decided to give an antibiotic that isn't too strong (ampicillin I think). He offered to come to my home to give the other shots that she'll need.
Her weight is 3.250 Kg (7.165 pounds). He told me I can give veggies but let them sit for a while until they dehydrate a little. I put some in the oven, she ate just a few bites, drank a lot of the electrolyte mix Jenny taught me. Ok, I'll stop giving it to her.
He seemed nice and owns a rabbit, so he does have some experience with rabbits after all…
Thanks for stoping by, Angieluv! Can I give dehydrated veggies? She won't eat anything else..

 

[jemm]

Hey brazil just seen this thread, how terrible for you, Devon carrot is praying for you and keeping her toes crossed as am I, hope it all works out for you,:wiggle

 

[MILU]

Thank you and Devon Carrot!! Your prayers mean very much to us! Brazilian Carrot appreciates!!

 

[MILU]

Ah, I forgot to mention that the vet didn't ask for any tests, I gues testing bunnies is very rare in Brazil. They hardly test people when they go to the dr!

 

[MILU]

Now, some time after the antibiotic (ampicillin?) it seems like she wants to poop but can't. She pooped quite a few droppings (like 10), and very very small too. I see her often in her cage (her toilet) as if she's there preparing for it but can't (my opinion). I'm not sure if she's just urinating or what.

She wants to eat fresh veggies, isn't eating anything else. I'm not sure if it's better to give them and have her fed something, or waiting to see when (if ever) she'll touch her pellets again. Could oats or wheat grains or popcorn kernels or something else be an alternative in case she doesn't touch her pellets any soon?

* My aunt said some people treat diarrhea with corn starch + water.. told me maybe I should try that with Carrot.. I'm not sure if that's ok though. Suggestions?

Thanks a lot!

 

[JBun]

Diarrhea in rabbit's is very different than with people. I don't think cornstarch would be a good idea. Besides it sounds like she is now swinging to the opposite end and instead of diarrhea she may be going into GI stasis. If she will eat fresh veggies then it might be ok to feed her very basic ones like dark green leafy lettuce, cilantro, parsley. Probably best to avoid any cruciferous veggies for now, in case they cause gas and further digestive upset. If you are seeing very small and infrequent droppings now, that is the start of stasis. It is best to stop pellets and any grains, sugars, starches, and treats, and feed only hay and (usually)leafy veggies, to try and prevent a full blockage from occurring. What she needs is lots of fiber and moisture(from water and veggies) to help get her digestive system moving normally again. I don't know if you are feeding a probiotic, but now that she is on antibiotics, it is especially important.

So did the vet not think it was coccidiosis? Was the antibiotic given as an injection? Penicillin type antibiotics are very dangerous to give to rabbits orally so hopefully it was an injection. I'm glad you have found a vet that may be able to help. I'm sure that it is a relief to you as well.