buns w/ diarrhea

[tadpolephobic]

I'm new to the boards, but I'm not going to take a whole lot of times to do intros. I was referred here by a member of EB who thought you all might be able to offer some help with my situation until I can get to a vet.

I went downstairs this morning and both my buns were acting a little off.
They hadn't eaten any of their pellets from the night before, they didn't want
their morning blueberries. Tabitha had a dried cecal stuck in the fur on her
back and was thumping around the cage and didn't really want me to bother
Fuzzy who didn't seem inclined to come out of their cardboard concrete form to
say the usual good mornings. Then Tabitha tried to squeeze into the tube WITH
Fuzzy which I guess was too much for her because Fuzzy backed right out and
came to see me and said her hello.
I decided to just keep an eye on it as they seemed to have eaten an okay if
not good portion of hay and drank maybe just a little less water than normal.
I was going to cut some blackberry vines to give them later to tempt them.
I went to check on them and let them out and they hadn't had any more food
or water since the morning and their was diarrhea all on the bottom of the
cage. I had just let Fuzzy out (she was acting normal and I didn't have my
glasses on) so I picked her up and checked her bottom and sure enough it was wet
and smelly. Tabitha was sitting in the litterbox with her back to me and
wouldn't even look at me and there was large wet, diarrhea like pellets when she
hopped out of the box. So I separated them with Tabitha in her old cage and
Fuzzy in the kitchen in a pen so I can see if the both have diarrhea or not and
get fecal samples hopefully.
Tabitha is just sitting on the top shelf of her cage, not really lethargic,
she acknowledges me when I walk up to her, but then goes back to just sitting
there, should I scoot her cage next to the baby's pen?
I am home alone for the weekend and don't have a license so the earliest I
can take them to the vet if they need it will be when my neighbor gets home if
she is willing to drive or if I can get a hold of my sis. Should I try an
anti-diarrheal (sp?) med for small animals? Is there anything else I should try first or should I just do what I'm doing until I can get them tothe vet?

Stephanie

Update: They have both been in seperate enclosures for about 2 1/2 hours now and neither one has showed much interest in hay or gone to the bathroom that I have seen, though I have seen them both sip some water.

 

[Pipp]

Definitely no anti-diarrhea meds at this point.

How old are the bunnies?

They need to see an emergency vet who can get them hydrated and find out the cause, maybe prescribe antibiotics or whatever it takes, hope that works out.

Here's some things to look at...

http://rabbitsonline.net/view_topic.php?id=11935&forum_id=10

Are you close to a store where you can get Pedialyte, a electrolyte replacement, sort of a Gatorade for babies? (Or I think even Gatorade may work in emergencies, although not great because of the sugar). They need fluids asap.

Do they look uncomfortable? If they're having gas issues, they may need a baby gas medicine as well -- something with Simethicone in it.

Are they grinding their teeth? They may need pain meds.

They may have picked up a bug, or their food had some mould (which can happen with pellets and hay fresh from the store).

Hopefully one of our members with more expertise will be along soon with more suggestions.

sas

 

[Pipp]

Please don't do this until someone with more experience okays it, but here's something I found in one of the Resource Center links:

http://www.thenaturetrail.com/Holland-Lops-and-Diarrhea.htm

Does anybody know if this is a good option when they don't have anything else?



First Step: Rehydration

Luckily for me, Tracy Lukeman, a more experienced breeder, called just as I was determining my plan of action. We talked over several options and she gave me some ideas to try. Then I hopped on the internet to find a recipe for Oral Rehydration Therapy (ORT) solution. The solution I used follows:

1 cup clean water
2 teaspoons sugar
1/4 teaspoon baking soda
3/16 teaspoon salt (take some out of a 1/4 tsp. or use a rounded 1/8 tsp.)

This formula differed from ones I'd previously used by having baking soda in it. But because I had read that the bunny's system is probably more acid when it is sick like this, I thought it might be a good thing to include the soda. One article said that the system would be so acid that using probiotics might be useless since they would die in the high acid environment before they could colonize the colon again.

I began by putting the solution into a clean syringe and feeding her all she would take by mouth. She had two or three of these feedings before bedtime. She stayed in the house with us and we went off to bed hoping she'd be around in the morning. We left her with a dish of ORT solution, a small handful of hay, and a teaspoon of rolled oats. I was very worried about her, but hopeful that I'd be able to do more in the morning.

 

[Spring]

You really need to go get some kind of fluid in them. Especially with diarrhea, rabbits can dehydrate very quickly. Them not touching their food can wait a bit, they need some fluids. Maybe try seeing if they'll drink out of a bowl if they don't already have a bowl in their cage. Most times rabbits will drink more form a bowl than a bottle.

I'm not sure what else to suggest, but you need to getthem drinking ASAP.

 

[tadpolephobic]

Should I try to take a fecal sample if i can get to the vet?
Tabitha has just now started going to the bathroom again 3 1/2 hours later and it's def. diarrhea.Neither one is drinking (though I slipped some v8 Splash into the water as incentive for both of them), but Tabitha is eating some wet blackberry vines which is more than Fuzzy. Fuzzy is pooping a little more normally, but they're still soft and long, a little rectangular.

 

[pamnock]

I would take a sample to the vet. Are you certain that the droppings aren't actually cecal pellets?

Here's another good link for you.

http://www.bio.miami.edu/hare/poop.html



Pam

 

[Pipp]

I misread your first post, thought you said they hadn't eaten any hay, just drank a bit of water.

Just to set the record straight, how old are they?

When did they last eat, and how much?

Did you introduce any new food tothem in the last day or so, or did they eat a lot of carbohydrates,veggies ortreats recently?

Are they grinding their teeth at all?

Do they look uncomfortable, lying down and getting up, orsitting all hunched over?

This info would be good toknow!

sas

 

[tadpolephobic]

Thank you all for your help and suggestions, luckily I got them to a vet and did not have to try any of them, but they are going in the info I keep on hand for future emergencies.

I got my girls to the vet around 8:00last nightand was there until at least one in the morning. They were both in G.I. Stasis and very dehydrated. Tabitha had a solid blockage in her abdomen and had to be x-rayed, the vet said she had the biggest stomach she's ever seen on any bun (she's about 7 lb) and it was all undigested food, etc that should have been moving through her system. She had to stay over night so they can keep an eye on her and keep pushing fluids and critical care and get her moving again.When they ran a fecal test just to see because her poop really didn't look anything like it should, turns out she also has the worse case of coccidia the vet has ever seen. That was all she could see on the slides it was so coated. Not sure how she didn't get sick sooner, I keep a very close eye on her and nothing has been unusual. I just got off the phone with the vet and she has to stay until at least 7:00 tonight because though she is doing well, she still hasn't gone poop. If by then she hasn't they are going to send her home and I will have to continue to forcefeed her every 6 hours and give her meds.

Fuzzy's block seemed to be mostly gas and the vet seemed to think with the fluids they gave her, the meds they sent home (and the precautionary coccidia meds because honestly what are the chances she doesn't have it?), and critical care I have to feed her every six hours she should be ok. She still isn't drinking and did experience a little diarrhea after we got home last night, so I'm keeping a very close eye on her.

Stephanie

 

[naturestee]

I'm so glad you were able to get to a vet! Poor Tabitha. I hope she'll be okay.

Is Fuzzy pooping normally at all or is it only the diarrhea? Have you tried anything else to get her to drink more on her own? If she has a water bottle, she might appreciate a bowl instead. Sometimes adding a little vanilla flavoring or flavored Pedialyte can encourge them to drink more. Wet veggies are good too, if she'll eat them.

Please, keep us updated.

ray:

 

[pamnock]

Glad to hear they have been taken to the vet. Coccidiosis can occur as a secondary pathogen and is often seen in conjunction with other illnesses or viral infections such as Rotavirus, which can cause a thick, pasty dropping, dehydration and distended cecum.



Pam

 

[tadpolephobic]

naturestee wrote:

I'm so glad you were able to get to a vet! Poor Tabitha. I hope she'll be okay.

Is Fuzzy pooping normally at all or is it only the diarrhea? Have you tried anything else to get her to drink more on her own? If she has a water bottle, she might appreciate a bowl instead. Sometimes adding a little vanilla flavoring or flavored Pedialyte can encourge them to drink more. Wet veggies are good too, if she'll eat them.

Please, keep us updated.

ray:

No more diarrhea, but no normal poopies either. . We have softLARGE poops. Like the size and texture of cecal clumps, but not clumps and MUCH smellier (not that cecals aren't smelly). She has both a bowl and a water bottle with two seperate flavors in them so she can take her pick, but she is showing no interest. I have to try veggies again though she washaving none of themat last check. The critical care she spits back all over me (I look like I've been feeding a baby) and gets about a quarter of her recommended amount, it's not that she seems to mind the flavor, but she won't eat it on her own. I don't know what to do! She isn't acting particularly lethargic or odd, in fact both her and Tabitha were, according to the vet, the calmest, friendliest rabbits she's ever had in her office. Tabitha explored the whole place. They don'tACT sick! I'm at a loss!

 

[pamnock]

I use Nutri Cal (calorie supplement for dogs/cats). A little goes a long way. Also has vitamin E to help relieve intestinal inflammation.



Pam

 

[Pipp]

Mine won't drink anything except Pedialyte willingly, although sometimes straight carrot juice or some apple juice in the water. I had to spike the Critical Care with honey and bananabeforeshe'd eat that.Nutrical is easier, food-wise.

Is she nibbling at hay? Does she like canned pumpkin? A few rolled oats maybe?

As Pam noted, still not totally convinced the Coccidiosis is the cause, might bean effect. How rabbit-savvy was the emergency vet do you think?

Continued best wishes...

sas

 

[tadpolephobic]

Good news/bad news.
Good news. My parents decided to board the girls with the vet (though I
am footing the bill, but hey, that doesn't bother me a bit, I'm just so
thrilled they will be cared for).
Bad news. The reason they decided the girls need to board: Tabitha is
still hospitalized, she was supposed to come home tonight, but when we
called at 5:30 they said she still hadn't gone to the bathroom. This
was at the same time I was about to give Fuzzy her Critical Care and
though I tried everything to tempt her, she still wasn't eating or
drinking, so when I went to force feed her, I noticed her grinding her
teeth and crouching down not really wanting me to touch her. So back to
the vet we went. There was a lot of bad news there, some of which kind
of kind of confused me and he said at a certain point withbuns it stops mattering what the original cause was.A whole bunch of new meds and some pain meds
were added to her regimen. Poor thing.
They brought Tabitha in so we could see her and it was amazing how her
and Fuzzy reacted to each other. They said Tabitha wasn't showing signs
of pain, but I think she must have been in at least some because she
had this blank wide eyed stare, but she immediately squished against
Fuzzy. Fuzzy did a full stretch and started grooming Tabitha. I was
crying because Tabitha's whole belly was just hard and it was awful to
feel her and see her like that, it was like she didn't know any of us
we're there. Fuzzy started giving me kisses all over my hand which made
me cry harder because I'm lucky to get one or two from her but this
went on for at least a minute. When they carried Tabitha and Fuzzy out
was the only time I saw any reaction from her, she started to panic and
try to get back to us.
Technically right now the girls can't kennel together because Tabitha
is hospitalized and Fuzzy is "boarded with meds" but the doctor said he
would try some creative paperwork to get them together as soon as
possible. They need to be seperate though until they know for sure
Tabitha is using the bathroom again though.

Stephanie, Tabitha and Fuzzy

 

[Pipp]

Poor babies! The stress of being separated and in a strange place doesn't help, I'm sure.

Good thing they finally got pain meds, that, hydrationand gas meds are usually the first line of defence.

Does this vet work with a lot of rabbits? I'm just checking fora list of vets who do consultations just in case.



sas ray:

 

[tadpolephobic]

Pipp wrote:

Poor babies! The stress of being separated and in a strange place doesn't help, I'm sure.

Good thing they finally got pain meds, that, hydrationand gas meds are usually the first line of defence.

Does this vet work with a lot of rabbits? I'm just checking fora list of vets who do consultations just in case.



sas ray:

It's a 24 hour clinic so we've been seen by two separate doctors. I have been pretty impressed with both of them, they seem very knowledgable though I went in with my mom tonight because she wanted to see Tabitha too and the doctor we saw spoke to her the whole time instead of me.
They haven't given Tabitha pain meds, only Fuzzy, because they insistTabitha isn't showing any signs of pain, to me her discomfort looked bad enough that it could only have helped right? I know how well buns hide pain and if they don't believe me they can just look at how bad Tabitha is now but how normal and happy-go-lucky she was acting when I brought her in. The x-rays showed she had to have been feeling it already yet she kept going, I think in a large part to make me feel better. I hope they change their minds about it because I hate to see my baby suffer and not be able to do anything about it.

Stephanie :cry1

 

[Pipp]

How are the bunnies? :carrot:carrot

 

[naturestee]

Any updates?

ray: