Bunny not drinking water from bottle/bowl

[ChloeBunLuver]

Bun lovers,
My Holland Lop, Chloe, 4 years old stopped drinking water about 4 days ago. She usually needs fresh water in her bottle every 4th day. She also stopped eating. Once I realized that she wasn't drinking I have done the following: cleaned and checked the bottle (it's fine); changed the water she is drinking from tap to distilled (I know tap water sometimes smells too much of chlorine); put freshly juiced apple juice in the water (to better tempt her to drink it). Nada. Nothing. She did start to eat on day 2- at first just celery and some spinach leaves. Now she's eating Kale (which I'm soaking in water), celery, carrots and dried apples. She has eaten a small amount of hay- no pellets (although I'd prefer her to eat the veggies as they have liquid in them. She is pooping very little and the poops are small and goey- sometimes she'll poop more of a mound-o-poop (the kind that smears and smells bad). She is peeing- but not very much and it smells strongly of ammonia.

She is giving kisses but won't hop around much and seems very tired. Yesterday I saw her clean herself standing on her hind legs which I hadn't seen in the last few days.

She's eating more each day, but still not drinking- and I've left the bottle of water and the bowl of water in there. I've checked her teeth- massaged her jaw- she doesn't seem to be having any tooth pain.

Just not sure what to do. I'm afraid a vet visit will stress her out- but maybe she needs and IV of fluids or should I try to give her liquid through dropper? She doesn't seem to be in distress, but I know that bunnies hide their injuries/pain.

Any insight would be appreciated... Many thanks! Mary

 

[mark]

I am pretty new to rabbits myself, so hopefully more seasoned owners will chime in here. Personally, if I were certain that she wasn't drinking any water, I would get her to the vet ASAP for the IV fluids. We had a recent scare and we believe the IV fluids turned the situation around for us.

 

[Aki]

Vet, now. You are very lucky she didn't die - guts problems, especially not eating and not pooping normally isn't something that you can just wait out. Her looking 'tired' probably means she's in pain. She probably needs to be hydrated, pain meds and something for her guts. You also need to check there is no underlaying condition - massaging her jaw will tell you nothing about the state of her teeth and there is a million of other things which could be going on without you noticing. I don't really like the sound of few small and goey poops with a lethargic rabbit. Dried apples, juice and carrots are not good choices for a rabbit who is having GI issues. Sugar will only make it worse. She needs to eat hay, lots of it. Wet leafy greens are good. If she is still not eating much you need to give Critical Care which will help with fibers and also with hydratation if you make it pretty runny. Seriously, phone a vet.
Also, that's a side note but I wouldn't wait 4 days to change the water especially during the summer. I change the water everyday, no matter how much is left (just water the plants with it!). I mean... have you tried drinking a glass of water which has been sitting out of the fridge in a plastic container for 4 days?

 

[ChloeBunLuver]

Agi,
I'm confused and I feel a bit attacked. I'm looking for help from folks who have gone through something similar (which, I gather from similar posts online this isn't an "odd" occurrence). Honestly, it almost seems like she got a virus and is slowly coming back from it? Also, to clarify:
1) she has been eating stuff with water on/in it and she has been pooping and passing liquid several times/day... and 2) it's getting better/more daily.

Also, your comment on "change the water every day"- yes, in a perfect world without 4 other pets in the house, 2 young kids and me being physically disabled, I could leisurely clean out all the cages 3x/day and cook animal specific meals for each. I would agree with you if the water was sitting in the open- but it's sealed in the bottle in a vacuum until she licks that ball. While she's been dealing with this, I've been changing her water (bottle and cup) at least 2x/day- marking where the top is to see if she's drinking. And, yes, I do know how to clean a water bottle- run apple vinegar through it, etc. This isn't my first rodeo... as they say. She's urinating several times/day (I'm changing her litter box every time I see her pee so I can monitor it.) I should note Chloe's main cage is in my bedroom (and I'm disabled so I'm mostly in that room). She also has a cage in our family room so she can go in her litter box if she's hopping around in there- also the temperature is controlled to between 70-72 degrees constantly. She also gets her cage cleaned out EVERY day- only has litter in her litter box- she's a very clean bunny.

And I have only given her couple of carrots (I did read the thing about the sugar and GI blockages)- in giving that to her I specifically wanted to see if she had trouble eating them- nope! Chowed them down. She's mostly been eating celery and kale having been soaked in water. I mentioned the other things I've tried her to eat just for being thorough (dried apples are her FAVORITE thing- only 2 slices/day usually, but that 1st day she wouldn't even touch them). Plus, dried fruit helps move things along... usually.

And, I read that hay (dry hay which I don't think soaking hay in water will do anything other than make a royal mess) can, when they aren't drinking, actually back your bunny up worse than the bun eating the "soaking veggies in liquid". No? Did I get that wrong? Besides, Chloe won't eat that much of the hay... even normally, she's always like her pellets a lot more than hay (but she normally eats both).

Today I just saw her licking her salt wheel- because of all this I replaced her salt and mineral wheels just in case she had a bug- didn't want cross-contamination. But, odd that she'd lick her salt wheel if she was feeling thirsty?

I feel like you're discounting the stress that going to the vet causes- the vet is ALWAYS going to want to run tests and stick needles and so on (again, not my first rodeo). If going to the vet is necessary, of course I'll take her, but I feel like I'm missing something here, and I might do her harm- I read a LOT of stories of owners taking bunnies to the vet under similar/same circumstances- the vet ends up running tests/x-rays and finds out nothing- 100s or 1000s of dollars later with 0 to show for it- plus the bun has gone through the ringer, or worse stories where the ve treated the bun for something the owner later learns was not an issue... i only saw a couple of posts (I would estimate less than 20% of the posts I've read) where the vet got it right and did something that positively affected the outcome.

I don't think she's dying, and I read that if it is a GI issues, the trend I've been seeing is good but can be REALLY slow going (14 days or more). That first day I thought she might be dying (but we didn't discover it til late at night and I hadn't read/tried anything to help her at that point).

To help things along, I'm thinking of the hydration by dropper... then again, I've read some things that, because the bun is eating a bunch of liquid in/on veggies, they de facto don't need as much liquid from bottle/cup? Thoughts?

Argh! I'm so confused and frustrated! I keep wondering if bunnies get sick (like people)- she was sneezing a bit last week- was kinda cute but I can't recall her sneezing really ever before (or any of my other bunnies for that matter). Maybe she just got a bug?

Love my bun- never bites, kisses all the time, loves snuggles, and runs about making circles every couple of minutes to come lick your ankles just to remind you how sweet she is.

Maybe I'm not being patient enough- just don't like any of my babies (fur, feather or human) being sick! Thanks in advance for all the input!

 

[JBun]

It's doubtful she got a virus. Viral diseases in rabbits don't occur very often. She has something called GI stasis, and there can be a variety of causes. It could have started out as a simple stomach ache from something she ate, or it could be any sort of illness that causes pain including dental problems such as molar spurs. Once a rabbit stops eating it can very easily go downhill from there. Often they will need supportive care from pain and gut meds, as well as regular syringe feeds, to help get them back on track again. It is never good for a rabbit to go without food and water for more than 12-24 hours. If a sick rabbit is nibbling at little bits of food, that still isn't enough and syringe feeds are still required to keep the gut moving.

There can also be an underlying health issue that started the stasis to begin with, and which needs to be properly diagnosed by a good rabbit vet. Say it's something like molar spurs that causes a rabbit to stop eating and go into stasis. A rabbit with an underlying condition like this, won't start eating well again on it's own until the dental problem(or other health condition) is corrected.

There's really no way to know what might have caused your rabbits stasis, but after 4 days of not eating much, your rabbit really needs to be checked by a good rabbit vet, get on pain and gut meds, fluids , regular syringe feeds, and to rule out any underlying health condition that might have caused this. If you can't afford to have expensive testing done(as I know some owners can't), the least that should be done is a dental exam to rule out a dental problem, the belly palpated to rule out gas and a blockage, fluids if your bun is dehydrated, and meds and feeding mix to take home. The feeding mix is very important as regular feedings(at least every 4 hours) are what will help your rabbits digestive process get moving normally again. The usual mix used is Oxbow Critical Care.

Here is some info on GI stasis in rabbits, as well as a link for rabbit savvy vets if you don't already have one picked out.
http://www.bio.miami.edu/hare/ileus.html
http://myhouserabbit.com/rabbit-health/gi-stasis-in-rabbits-a-deadly-condition/

http://rabbit.org/vet-listings/

 

[ChloeBunLuver]

Chloe decided to start eating hay! Yeah! I fed her some water from a dropper and massaged her belly a bit- she peed a fair amount when I put her back in her cage. Then she started in on the hay. She was hopping about... preened herself a couple of times (on hind legs... ok, so probably because some of the water dropper went down her front- oops. She is definitely more responsive. More poops today than yesterday. And she peed a fair amount (maybe not as much as normal- but it's hard to tell as I'm cleaning out her litter box a few times each day... whereas normally it's once/day).

I'm kinda hovering around her- pretty much every time she finishes the wet veggies in her dish I fill it up again to make sure she has it available, and my hubby is doing this, too. But because we've each done this at least once per day (more like 3x for me) I haven't been keep up with exactly how much she's taking in- but I'm guessing she's eating a bunch more than I think. We usually give her kale or spinach usually with a bit of a treat- one carrot or dried apple slice. She's probably been eating 3-4x as much kale as usual (and it's wet whereas normally it's dry).

A number of folks have recommended this oxbow emergency food/dropper thing- is this something that I can get on my own or do I need a prescription? Since she's peeing & pooping better & eating hay, wet kale and celery-- do y'all still think I need it?

 

[RavenousDragon]

The Oxbow Critical Care is available over the counter and something I personally recommend to just have in case (we always have some!). It's a powder you mix with water and force feed.

It sounds like she's doing better- maybe this bout of stasis was just a scare. But if it happens again, I would take her to the vet- the stress can be worth it if it's going to save her life! Radiographs (x-rays) won't usually tell you much with a stasis case, but blood work (usually pretty pricey) will rule in/out liver torsion (has the same symptoms as stasis, but much more rare) and a dental exam and musculoskeletal exam can help to rule out pain as the cause.

Too many veggies can cause stasis, so I would be careful. Once she's eating ok, I'd cut down on the veggies and way up the hay. Pellets are ok if she's eating them, but can cause problems as well (if they have too much sugar in them- many brands do). Keep us updated on how she's doing!

 

[Blue eyes]

Oxbow Critical Care is available on Amazon - no prescription needed. If she's eating on her own well and her poos are returning to normal, you probably won't need it now. But it is still a good thing to have on hand anyway.

I'd also recommend getting some simethicone (baby gas drops) to have on hand. This is my first go-to at the first sign when a rabbit begins to reject any food that he normally eats. This is safe to offer and relieves the gas enough to get bunny eating again. Usually within hours of beginning simethicone treatments, bunny is back to eating as usual. I just used some last week for my bunny that is prone to this -- especially if I've given him one too many dried banana chips. :embarrassed:

Hay is always the best thing for GI troubles. Hay has the roughage that keeps everything moving. The more hay, the better -- always. Just wanted to clarify that. Great that she's eating hay. A good goal is to have her eat her body size in hay every day. Refreshing that hay every day can help meet that goal. Don't wait for it to be mostly gone before refreshing.

Wet greens can certainly provide almost all the water she needs. That is true. I would caution you, however, on the carrot. Carrots should be viewed as a treat only because of the high sugar. A sudden amount of sugar can cause a fluorish of bacterial growth in the gut which can upset that bacterial balance. The most carrot a rabbit should receive on any given day is a 1" slice (or one carrot nib). If she gets any carrot on a given day, that fulfills the treat quota for the day -- so no dried apple on the same day. Again, the reasoning behind this is to limit the amount of sugar which can itself send a rabbit into GI stress.

As she continues to improve and get back to normal, hopefully her hay eating will continue. You mentioned she prefers her pellets over her hay. That is perfectly normal (but not perfectly healthy.) This is why pellets should be limited for rabbits over 6 months of age. They should eat way more hay than pellets. An average sized rabbit getting hay and daily greens only needs 1/4 cup of pellets per day.

Once she's back to her usual self, consider switching to some other greens like dark green lettuces, romaine, basil, cilantro. Both kale and spinach are high in oxalates and calcium. Regular daily feeding of both kale and spinach (or mustard greens) could cause bladder sludge -- a buildup of calcium in the urine. Limiting kale and spinach to just a couple times per week and offering more of the other greens would be a good option.

 

[ChloeBunLuver]

Blue Eyes and Ravenous Dragon- THANK YOU! Very interesting and instructive! I will definitely switch the leafy greens to something like Romaine versus Kale/Spinach and figure out something about the pellets versus hay- although the proportions you mentioned- hay about her body size and @1/4 cup of pellets is about right as I replace it (when she's eating normally) daily. I'll keep y'all updated. Just SOOO weird! She's normally such a healthy little thing- like literally this is my first problem with her in 4 years (and I've had 2 other bunnies and never had any of the sludge; GI Stasis; urinary tract infections problems... so this somewhat new to me- I have an array of other animals who have had ER issues over the years to compensate- sigh). Chloe is the smartest and sweetest in the house (kids included- at least the sweetest part! lol!)- couldn't do without my bun! Thanks again- I will update as things progress...

 

[EmilieAndPoppy]

I'd take her to the vet! Same thing happened to my bunny just a few weeks ago, you'll be able to find my post somewhere. Mine started like yours and she eventually got worse, she wouldn't eat or move or do her business. The vet said it was GI, gave us meds, kept her over night, now 3 weeks later she's back to her normal cheeky self. Don't wait around like I did as I was just got lucky that she made it. I hope you get your bun sorted I know how the worry feels when they're poorly hope this helped you!

 

[Preitler]

Hi,

about diet, greens, etc., I highly recommend this read:
https://www.harcourt-brown.co.uk/articles/free-food-for-rabbits

A bunny not eating is always an emergency, I'm pretty reluctant to go to a vet, but that's one of the scenarios when I act fast.

I guess you didn't inspect the litter tray closely, but from what you write the possibility of a bladder stone that passed comes to mind.

 

[ChloeBunLuver]

Update: Chloe seems to be doing much better! Was able to switch her back to "normal" food- put the pellets back in yesterday and today she is pooping almost totally normal (poops are bit small and maybe 75% of what she "normally" poops/day). I'm still giving her celery and some greens in water, but not as much and she's started drinking from her bottle again (although I still have a cup of distilled water in there, too, which I'm changing a few times/day as she tends to get hay in it- no matter where in her cage I put it). Although I guess that means she's eating hay and drinking from the cup- both good things. She's hopping around like normal- back to giving kisses! My sweet bunny is back!

I have NO idea what happened. Someone mentioned a bladder stone- I wouldn't even know what to look for- let alone if I could see it in her litter?

I never did take her to the vet. To clarify- she was only not eating/drinking on that first day. Day 1 was her cage cleaned/checked/water bottle changed @11 am- she seemed fine when her cage got cleaned but when I checked on her the end of the day I realized she hadn't touched her water or food. The subsequent days we were getting her fluid through the veggies and later with the dropper. She started eating on morning of day 2 (just not a lot). She was peeing on day 2- small amounts but frequent (smelled of ammonia) but the poops were very scarce and small (a few were "clumpy"). But, every day she was getting palpably better.

I know many of you were like: GET HER TO THE VET ASAP! But, seriously, the symptoms she was showing and research I did showing the stories of people with pretty much the exact circumstance- I would estimate 80% wasted their time/money or worse, created a stress on the bunny and the vet did nothing or worse (unneeded treatment for something the rabbit didn't have). And all of y'all suggesting it could be teeth spurs... yes, it could have been... but when I looked into it, found that FOR SURE the ONLY way to check a bunny's teeth is to sedate them- which if she had gotten worse rather than better may have been what I would have done.

I do have a rabbit-small animal vet, and I do like/trust her. But, after that first night, Chloe was continuously, albeit slowly, improving... perhaps thanks to the tips/tricks my research found... I didn't really think a vet visit would have helped, and I'm glad I didn't go... as the tests necessary to "rule out" a bunch of these things- xrays, blood work, colonoscopies, etc. would have been A LOT for an already weak bunny which, again from what I read, had only a 20% chance of yielding any answers/treatment better than what I was already doing for her.

I do have a bit of a different perspective, though. I'm disabled with a rare auto-immune ailment and I know from firsthand experience that doctors only sometimes know what they're talking about- that it's called "practicing" medicine for a reason (in fact, you know you have a good doctor when they admit they don't know everything). And, I think this is even more true of vets- unlike a person, Chloe couldn't describe what her pain or problem was- even worse, I know bunnies tend to try and hide their pain as a survival. Plus, I do research fairly well... for my own ailments I've had to acquire that skill....

As I'm writing this Chloe has eaten a bunch of hay and drank from her bottle! Mama in me is like, "YES!"

With all that said, I'm SUPER APPRECIATIVE of EVERYONE who took the time to care and comment and offer advice/guidance. Just knowing there were other bunny owners out there who cared enough to do that helped me not feel so desperate! THANK YOU!

 

[RavenousDragon]

I think most of us suggest a vet because the 20% of times it yields a different answer is the 20% of the times it saves the rabbit's life. Just a little ileus is not usually deadly, BUT a liver torsion is. Teeth spurs are not usually deadly, BUT clostridiosis is. 20% is 1 in 5, so 1 in 5 rabbits are saved by going to the vet right away when not eating. To me, that alone is worth it for my own rabbits.

You are definitely right that no doctor knows everything- in fact in vet school most of us are perpetually fearful that we will never ever know enough (impostor syndrome tends to his us about half way through the first semester ). I'm honestly terrified (albeit excited to get out of the classroom) in a few weeks that I am going to start having to make (supervised) decisions that affect my patients' lives (and I am NOT the only one- far from it).

Keep an eye on her (as you already are!!) and keep us updated on how she's doing for a while. Here's to hoping we are out of the woods and it was just a rough moult or scare or something!

 

[ChloeBunLuver]

Chloe is still doing well. Still don't know what happened. We did start giving her distilled water (our city water can sometimes have a chlorine smell to it) and began giving her romaine lettuce instead of kale daily... and not so many carrots- only one a day or alternatively a dried apple (which is her JAM!) she's a little peeved on that last count, I think. Glad my bun is doing well! Thanks again to all who helped!

 

[Blue eyes]

Glad to hear she's doing better. I'd continue to cut down on those carrots. A 1" slice is the max a rabbit should have each day.
How is her hay eating?

 

[squidpop]

I didn't read the whole thread but to pitch in my opinion on going to the vet. Going to the vet only right away only helps if you know you are going to a good rabbit vet. I've gone to the emergency vet in the middle of the night before with my rabbits to see the only vet on call and have had horrible experiences- A vet told me there was no way you could hydrate a rabbit - do sub Q fluids - because they don't have big enough veins. — Another emergency vet who was on call really tried to talk me out of driving in at 2:00 am to look at a rabbit, and when he got there said to me "so tell me exactly what's wrong with your rabbit and what to do about it." ... so depending on where you live in the world some vets aren't even trained for rabbits and have a bad attitude toward them. (I'm not saying don't go to the vet right away- but what I am saying is find a really good rabbit vet.)

... and other advice I have is... Whatever is wrong with your rabbit if it isn't eating it probably isn't drinking, and if its dehydrated its gut will slow down and stop moving (that's called GI stasis)- then it can't eat. So Hydrate your rabbit first thing with electrolyte fluids and see if that gets its gut going again. I Syringe feed at least 1 tablespoon electrolyte solution. Then I sort out what vet to go to and when. Then wait one hour and then do 1 tablespoon again.