Bonding Kirby & Penny - Moving in

[Happi Bun]

This sounds good to me! Bunny flopping is great because it shows they are comfortable. Penny must not be that frightened since it sounds like she is flopping all over the place. Most people don't know that I tried bonding Dunkin and Amber before. It was too soon after her spay and her hormones were still raging. They absolutely hated each other! I saw some pretty impressive fighting. We are talking locked in a ball, tumbling around and fur going flying. I thought that would be the end of that. Later I realized my error and when I tried again there was none of that! They still weren't love at first sight and had their problems. Now they are inseparable and best pals. Take that back, sometimes they have grumpy days where they get on each others nerves but that is to be expected in any relationship.

 

[kirbyultra]

Aw... it always gives me a ray of hope when I hear of other people's bonding successes. It's such a tough process, for me at least. I was determined to make my boys bond and when that failed, I was determined to make Penny and Kirby work. I'm so afraid of failure that I'm sure I'm projecting my nerves on them too.

I think tonight, me being away from the action actually helped, even if a little. I know Kirby has a habit of coming to me for comfort when he's upset or wants to get some lovin' so me not being there for him also made him focus on Penny more.

ETA: Penny is a serial flopper. Seriously! She'll flop in any old place at any old time for just about anyone, so I'm not exactly sure if her flops are a good measure. OR, she is really just THAT relaxed a bun. When she was at Petco, gosh, there were tons of strangers going to and fro, touching and poking at her, sitting in her space, etc. And she would just flop and be all cute! Everyone LOVED her at the adoption events. To date, people still ask whatever happened to "Madonna" and I have to coyly tell them that I adopted her h34r2

However, Kirby's binkies ARE a good indication that he was enjoying himself up to a point. Kirby doesn't binky for just anyone and just anywhere. Penny also doesn't binky much, so her binkies were a good sign too.

 

[kirbyultra]

Ok, Happy Friday everyone. I started bonding this evening right before midnight. The session went on for a solid 1.5 hours, I clocked it! It ended not because I was tired, but because I saw that Kirby had pretty much had it and he started to get really snippy with Penny.

In addition to all the other stuff I pointed out before, something somewhat exciting happened after I put them away.

After bonding ended and I put the buns back in their pens, I guess I forgot to close Kirby's door as he escaped and hopped around, having lots of fun. I petted him a ton, and he was all buttered up when I shooed him back into his pen. I went over to pet Penny but she took the opportunity to hop out of her pen. I pushed her pen over to form a trap against Kirby's pen so I could easily pick her up and put her back.... but when she got trapped...

She curiously stuck her nose through Kirby's cage and Kirby started to lick her nose. I mean, profusely! The other 2 times he licked her was just a quick couple of licks. This was really grooming her, getting down and dirty on her nose. He groomed around her eye and he did the top of her head too. He started to get too rough (but he was still clearly grooming her, not trying to hurt her). I kept telling him "Kirby, not so rough" but of course he didn't understand... Penny got nervous or perhaps he hurt her and she got up and shook it off. I petted her on the head a couple times and she sat back down. I nudged her body over against the cage. Kirby groomed her cheek, then licked around her body too. She sat there silently for the whole thing. Kirby eventually stopped, stared at her (got no reaction from her), and then he hopped away.

I guess he's kinda "throwing the ball in her court". I know my Kirby, and he wants to be loved. I've never seen him be a "giver" with me, but he seems to give it up for her. I think she does need to show him some kind of affection or he'll continue to snub her :twitch: It doesn't have to be grooming, but when he sticks his head under her, she might just... stay there and let him be tucked beneath her? I don't know... but certainly, doing nothing, has gotten her bonked over the head every time.

 

[JadeIcing]

Sounds great sometimes taking yourself out if there is no aggression is the best thing you can do.

 

[elrohwen]

That's so fantastic! I'm so glad you're seeing so much progress.

 

[kirbyultra]

He's just gotta stop bonking her and scratching her. She is really getting afraid of him because of this frustration from him It's so sad to watch. Then they seem perfectly happy afterward. Very odd.:?

 

[kirbyultra]

Bonding again! At a decent hour for once

Penny is having a ball. She binkies higher than any rabbit I've owned. It's a little alarming! Kirby is staying near me, even though I'm on the other side of the baby gate. He's not doing a lot of exploration or paying her much mind. Penny's eating hay. After Kirby got a little nippy with her, she didn't seem bothered and then flopped over. She's so weird like that!

Kirby is pawing at the door leading to the rabbit room. It's closed and he's not going anywhere but he seems a little stressed out about it. I'll whip out the salad soon.

 

[slleavy]

i'm new to the site and i was just reading everyone's posts and different experiences with bonding their rabbits. just wondering how long you waited when it was "too short" after surgery? i'm going to attempt to bond 2 males that i have who were just fixed 2 weeks ago but i'm aftraid of when to start! i've read so much and heard so many different stories and of failure especially with 2 boys who haven't grown up together (as in my case) and i don't want to start off on the wrong foot! i've heard not to start more than 10 days after surgery, 2 weeks, 3 weeks, a month, 2 months, etc. any help or advice from anyone would be greatly appreciated!

 

[kirbyultra]

The buns have been together an hour an 20 min and there has been no nipping or any unpleasantness of any kind!!:thumbup

Right now they're eating out of each other's litter boxes. Penny's sitting in his, but he is standing beside hers. We've had binkies from both buns. Once, Kirby binkied right over her head (she ducked).

Just a few seconds ago, Penny binkied and hopped over to Kirby. They went nose-to-nose and upon some consideration, Kirby started to groom her. He's a little rough still. She flinched. But he's going back in for it!:shock:

....ok, no he's stopped and shaken it off. And now he's walked away and they're both settling down a few feet from each other. Penny is looking sooo relaxed right now.

This is so good. I think maybe Kirby decided he will let her be the dominant bun. Awful girl, won't groom him even once. :grumpy

I'm uploading a video of them eating lettuce. Should be done sometime this year. lol
Here is a pic from earlier.

Here is one from yesterday.
Kirby: "Ma, she's so unladylike. How do you expect me to like her?

 

[kirbyultra]

Hi Sam, welcome to RO.
2 boys is going to be tough. Boy hormones can be kicking for 4-6 weeks after their neuter surgery so expect that they may not get along until the hormones have tapered off.

There are differing opinions on this, but in hindsight, I think I should have separated my unneutered boy from my neutered boy until I was SURE the hormones were gone after both were neutered. It just develops bad first impressions. My skittish boy got really paranoid around him and it just caused unnecessary chasing and fighting.

My two boys never worked out, but I think one big reason is because my baby boy was, and still is kind of a nut. You can plan for things and do research, but sometimes it just doesn't work out between two buns.

That said, I DO wish you lots of luck with yours. Just be really patient, is the best advice I can give you. Bonding can be a very trying process for you and the bunnies. Or you could be very lucky and get a pair like Mrs. PBJ (check out her thread for Storm and Jessi's bonding). They bonded in some record time!

 

[slleavy]

thanks helen! i think i'll wait a little longer. i'm just anxious to start!

i hope everything keeps going well for penny and kirby! they're so cute!

 

[kirbyultra]

slleavy wrote:

thanks helen! i think i'll wait a little longer. i'm just anxious to start!

i hope everything keeps going well for penny and kirby! they're so cute!

Fight it, Sam! Just a few more weeks! Good luck!

 

[kirbyultra]

[flash=425,344]http://www.youtube.com/v/96YUUja4TtM&hl=en&fs=1[/flash]

 

[hln917]

LOL! Perhaps you'll need to go back to work soon with the way Penny eats!

 

[kirbyultra]

God I hope not!

 

[kirbyultra]

Summarizing today's events...

The buns were in the hallway for almost 3 hours. The session seemed to get better and better as time went on. Penny and Kirby were unsure of each other as they have been all along. Then Penny started to get less jumpy around him and Kirby got less defensive and abrupt with her as well.

They were napping for a little while as well, a few feet away from each other. Penny was all sprawled out and Kirby was a little loaf.

Kirby groomed her once and it was a nice long kissy kiss on the head. I think they're starting to trust each other and be friendly. They're not in love but they're definitely friendly.

By around the 2 hour mark I was getting tired of just staring at them so I turned on the tv and let them have some privacy... No problems at all. Nobody was mean, no one grunted. It was very peaceful.

If it weren't for Kirby constantly nibbling on the playmat (which he shouldn't, it's so bad for him to ingest plastic foam), I'd just leave them there and take a nap (I'm exhausted!). But Penny has to go to the vet at 6:00 today so I had to wrap up and clean so everybun is back in their pen.

Overall very positive day. 3 solid hours is "the bigtime"! lol

 

[kirbyultra]

Haha has everyone stopped reading me over-analyzing every little detail yet? :whistling

Well we're bonding again and it's getting easier and easier (read: less stressful for me!). There is such a level of comfort between them that I don't get into a mess trying to make sure the timing is right and that they don't get into a tussle. It has started off well in the first half hour.

Kirby has already groomed Penny all over her head, and he even got her ears and some of her body. She is unsure of him still, and flinches sometimes. They both binky after so we know they're both happy. Kirby is happy grooming and satisfied that she hasn't groomed him back. He's finally really ok with it. There is no sign of him being frustrated with her anymore.

Penny flopped for about 15 minutes and Kirby watched her for the longest time...then he completely dead-bunny-flopped. For those of you who have followed my 2009 blog, I had tons of DBF pix and Kirby really sports the dead bunny look. His eyes are rolled back slightly and everything :shock: But anyway, he usually doesn't do that unless he is really, really, really relaxed. Frankly, I'm a bit jealous that he's DBFed with her after only 29 dates. He was with me for months before he DBFed. :twitch:

 

[Mrs. PBJ]

Sounds good and yes I am still reading

 

[kirbyultra]

Mrs. PBJ wrote:

Sounds good and yes I am still reading

:hugsquish:

 

[kirbyultra]

I am feeling so drained today so I probably am not gonna make it to 3 hours like last time. It's been 1 hour and 40 min and they are currently lying down and loafed.

New problem has presented itself. Now that Penny knows Kirby will groom her, she's gotten herself into demanding for it. She stuck her head into Kirby's face and Kirby tried to put his head down hoping she would groom him. When she wouldn't and further shoved her head into him, he was backed into a corner and he boxed her again. She backed off, and then laid down on the side. This happened twice. So conclusion: Kirby is ok grooming her on his terms, but he's not so much digging her demands just yet.

I have seen this one feisty pair at the shelter where one was clearly dominant and when she wanted to be groomed, she made no mistake of it. Her sister would either comply or she'd run away. But she never clawed at the dominant one. -- I guess my Kirby isn't too happy with the arrangement yet. Especially since he hasn't gotten jack out of it yet! :grumpy