kirbyultra
Well-Known Member
Like what s considered fighting? Kirby boxes/pounces on her but Penny does not react to it. I separate them immediately when it happens. Should I... Not do that?? Maybe thats part of working it out on their own??
Bonding Kirby & Penny - Moving in
- Thread starter kirbyultra
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elrohwen
Well-Known Member
Fighting isrolling around, trying to draw blood. Or serious nipping that draws blood.
Fur pulling isn't fighting, nor is chasing/nipping as long as one rabbit doesn't react to it. If Penny isn't reacting, leave them together as it's the only way they'll work it out. You can tell Kirby no, or push his head down or something to make him stop, but I would not separate them in that situation.
Fur pulling isn't fighting, nor is chasing/nipping as long as one rabbit doesn't react to it. If Penny isn't reacting, leave them together as it's the only way they'll work it out. You can tell Kirby no, or push his head down or something to make him stop, but I would not separate them in that situation.
kirbyultra
Well-Known Member
Okie dokie. I will stop Kirby if he continues to try to scratch her after the pounce, but let them figure it out themselves. Thanks!
kirbyultra
Well-Known Member
So, I let Penny out of her pen and she had a lot of fun running around the rabbit room for an hour. I saw Kirby's hay basket was low on hay so I gave him and her both a new handful of hay. After that, Kirby came down from his condo and hopped out of his pen. While he was out, Penny was in her litter box eating hay. Both their pen doors were open.
Kirby went into Penny's pen and started to sniff around. Penny just kept eating her hay. She didn't even care that he was there. He hopped around and she sorta watched him, but she didn't stop nibbling. When he was done looking around and chinning a few things, he hopped out. It was maybe only a minute inside her pen. Then he went to poop in his box and she followed him into his pen. She walked around, sniffing things. Kirby came running out of his litter box (this is not out of the ordinary) and I was afraid he'd immediately jump on her so I got him and calmed him down before he could get to her (3 inches away). They sniffed around each other and then she left.
She's eating hay again in her box and Kirby is just running around the rabbit room. Both their pen doors still open. No fighting. Just living normal life...
Kirby went into Penny's pen and started to sniff around. Penny just kept eating her hay. She didn't even care that he was there. He hopped around and she sorta watched him, but she didn't stop nibbling. When he was done looking around and chinning a few things, he hopped out. It was maybe only a minute inside her pen. Then he went to poop in his box and she followed him into his pen. She walked around, sniffing things. Kirby came running out of his litter box (this is not out of the ordinary) and I was afraid he'd immediately jump on her so I got him and calmed him down before he could get to her (3 inches away). They sniffed around each other and then she left.
She's eating hay again in her box and Kirby is just running around the rabbit room. Both their pen doors still open. No fighting. Just living normal life...
elrohwen
Well-Known Member
That sounds really good! I think you're only a week or two away from them living together full time.
kirbyultra
Well-Known Member
Ok, breaking news of all kinds right now! I finally separated them. I mean it must have been about an hour that they were out neutrally playing in the same area.
First of all, Kirby groomed Penny! Yes, he did! He licked her nose and on top of her head, and the back of her ears. A second time, he was chinning the way back of her cheek, near her neck. And all of this happened inside Kirby's pen.
The sad thing is, Penny did not groom him back. He got mad at her and he boxed her, then ran away on his own. When Penny went back to his pen the next 2 times, he didn't like it and he grunted and paced around. I ended up shooing Penny out of there because it was clearly upsetting him. He almost chased her one time and that's when I finally ended the session.
After he groomed her the first time, Penny flopped outside of his pen, under my table. Penny seems really nonchalant about the whole thing. Kirby is really worked up and into it. He can't leave her alone, but he can't stand her ignoring him lol She then of course got up and started to lick my hand. Then she slipped her head underneath my hand, demanding to be pet. I bet if she licked Kirby he'd groom her back.
I have pics of him licking her nose but my desktop computer is not cooperating.
That was incredibly long and most of the hour was pretty laid back. I was doing some work on the computer and surfing RO. They were hanging out... I think it was really positive!
First of all, Kirby groomed Penny! Yes, he did! He licked her nose and on top of her head, and the back of her ears. A second time, he was chinning the way back of her cheek, near her neck. And all of this happened inside Kirby's pen.
The sad thing is, Penny did not groom him back. He got mad at her and he boxed her, then ran away on his own. When Penny went back to his pen the next 2 times, he didn't like it and he grunted and paced around. I ended up shooing Penny out of there because it was clearly upsetting him. He almost chased her one time and that's when I finally ended the session.
After he groomed her the first time, Penny flopped outside of his pen, under my table. Penny seems really nonchalant about the whole thing. Kirby is really worked up and into it. He can't leave her alone, but he can't stand her ignoring him lol She then of course got up and started to lick my hand. Then she slipped her head underneath my hand, demanding to be pet. I bet if she licked Kirby he'd groom her back.
I have pics of him licking her nose but my desktop computer is not cooperating.
That was incredibly long and most of the hour was pretty laid back. I was doing some work on the computer and surfing RO. They were hanging out... I think it was really positive!
elrohwen
Well-Known Member
Yay! That's really really fantastic. They'll work out the Penny grooming him thing soon enough.
kirbyultra
Well-Known Member
I sure hope so. But I am quite certain that they will work it out now that I've seen them together for so long and interacting really well.
They've both had a really good day. Kirby just completely dead bunny flopped and Penny is sprawled out on her tummy, legs straight out behind her bum. Very cute! They must be tired. I know I am!
They've both had a really good day. Kirby just completely dead bunny flopped and Penny is sprawled out on her tummy, legs straight out behind her bum. Very cute! They must be tired. I know I am!
hln917
Well-Known Member
LOL! Seems like she's finally using the female tactic of playing hard to get! Boys do not like to be ignored! Smart chick!
Looks like you're making progress, keep it up!
Looks like you're making progress, keep it up!
kirbyultra
Well-Known Member
This morning they got playtime together in the rabbit room. It became very clear that Penny will go wherever there is food and since Kirby is so liberal about the food supply that I give him, he had plenty left lying around... Well, Penny kept sneaking in there to help herself.
Kirby didn't like her in his pen too much. He tolerated it at first and then he got downright mad. He boxed her and ran away a couple of times. I shooed them out and closed the door.
The rabbit room seems to be unproductive now. Kirby gets too territorial in his pen, Penny can't help but squeeze her butt in there, and he gets too worked up/fixated on going home if I simply close the door to keep her out.
Tonight I moved them back out to the hallway. Kirby pounced on her within 14 seconds (I timed it). He was really worked up and antsy so I spent some time calming him down. He seemed no better when I let him loose again, so I picked him up in my arms. He doesn't really like it so I count it as a stress mechanism.
When I put him back down, he seemed better. They sat nose to nose, and then cheek to cheek for a long time. Maybe 5-7 minutes. Then Penny got up and stared around. I went to pet Kirby over the head so he wouldn't be startled by her leaving him and she pounced on my hand with a grunt! She did this twice, so I am sure she was aiming for me, not him. What is that about?? Did she not want me touching Kirby?
Nose to nose:
Smushy cheeks and bunny heads
And then finally, I thought why not try the lettuce thing... everyone tells me to give them a lettuce leaf and see if they'll eat it together. I always thought Penny'd swallow it whole and Kirby would ignore it.
Well, it started off that way. Penny ate 1/3 of it already while Kirby looked a little dumbfounded that she left (they'd been sitting together for nearly 15 minutes with their heads together). Then, all of a sudden, Kirby ate with her! He nibbled a few bites which is shown on this video here. Penny proceeded to eat the whole thing while Kirby only ate the couple little bites in the video.
[flash=425,344]http://www.youtube.com/v/bOknUG7eOts&hl=en&fs=1[/flash]
The session ended after that. So this is good right?
Kirby didn't like her in his pen too much. He tolerated it at first and then he got downright mad. He boxed her and ran away a couple of times. I shooed them out and closed the door.
The rabbit room seems to be unproductive now. Kirby gets too territorial in his pen, Penny can't help but squeeze her butt in there, and he gets too worked up/fixated on going home if I simply close the door to keep her out.
Tonight I moved them back out to the hallway. Kirby pounced on her within 14 seconds (I timed it). He was really worked up and antsy so I spent some time calming him down. He seemed no better when I let him loose again, so I picked him up in my arms. He doesn't really like it so I count it as a stress mechanism.
When I put him back down, he seemed better. They sat nose to nose, and then cheek to cheek for a long time. Maybe 5-7 minutes. Then Penny got up and stared around. I went to pet Kirby over the head so he wouldn't be startled by her leaving him and she pounced on my hand with a grunt! She did this twice, so I am sure she was aiming for me, not him. What is that about?? Did she not want me touching Kirby?
Nose to nose:
Smushy cheeks and bunny heads
And then finally, I thought why not try the lettuce thing... everyone tells me to give them a lettuce leaf and see if they'll eat it together. I always thought Penny'd swallow it whole and Kirby would ignore it.
Well, it started off that way. Penny ate 1/3 of it already while Kirby looked a little dumbfounded that she left (they'd been sitting together for nearly 15 minutes with their heads together). Then, all of a sudden, Kirby ate with her! He nibbled a few bites which is shown on this video here. Penny proceeded to eat the whole thing while Kirby only ate the couple little bites in the video.
[flash=425,344]http://www.youtube.com/v/bOknUG7eOts&hl=en&fs=1[/flash]
The session ended after that. So this is good right?
kirbyultra
Well-Known Member
Bumpity bump!
JadeIcing
Well-Known Member
She may not want you touching him. It looks to be going well.
kirbyultra
Well-Known Member
JadeIcing wrote:
If Penny is getting possessive of him, that is really good (I think?)... up till now she was so nonchalant through bonding that I thought she just didn't care and couldn't be bothered with Kirby. This is positive confirmation that she does like him!:weee:
My husband says that Kirby probably thinks I am his wifebun. When he gets stressed out he seeks my comfort and wants me to love him. Sometimes during the bonding he comes over to me and just looks like a poor soul. At the vet he'll do that too. Poor thing. I keep tellin' him, hey, I'm your mom, not your wifey....:dunno
If Penny is getting possessive of him, that is really good (I think?)... up till now she was so nonchalant through bonding that I thought she just didn't care and couldn't be bothered with Kirby. This is positive confirmation that she does like him!:weee:
JadeIcing
Well-Known Member
kirbyultra wrote:
Lol you may have to cut the appron springs or a divorce. :rofl::whistling
Lol nice to see that makes you happy. :coolness:
Lol you may have to cut the appron springs or a divorce. :rofl::whistling
Lol nice to see that makes you happy. :coolness:
kirbyultra
Well-Known Member
JadeIcing wrote:
:clapping:
:clapping:
kirbyultra
Well-Known Member
This afternoon's session didn't go as smooth. Kirby seemed dead set on gettin' her. She tried to sniff his butt and he whipped his head around to meet her. It was defensive, not offensive. He did scratch her once and she hopped away as a reaction (first time I've seen her react to his pouncing). I don't think that's good. She starting to get scared of him. She doesn't come over to him as much, she likes to hop away if he comes close.
Kirby wants her to groom him when he works up the courage. He sticks his head under her and she won't groom him. I went so far as to putting food on his head and on his body. I made poor Kirby into a lettuce buffet and she was really thinking hard about whether she wanted to approach him. She finally did but very reluctantly. I have to stop Kirby from pouncing on her. She's really starting to build a case against him!
Kirby had his head really far down under her at one point as she was reaching for a piece of lettuce near his ears. That was sorta cute, but she grabbed the lettuce and hopped away. Kirby really liked when she was eating off him and chewing near his body. He closed his eyes, looking pretty relaxed.
He loves to be loved... she just won't love him for some reason. She has no trouble giving me kisses but him, nope. :grumpy
I feel like we're back peddling again... Sigh. I'm going to scale back the duration again to maybe 10 minutes.
Kirby wants her to groom him when he works up the courage. He sticks his head under her and she won't groom him. I went so far as to putting food on his head and on his body. I made poor Kirby into a lettuce buffet and she was really thinking hard about whether she wanted to approach him. She finally did but very reluctantly. I have to stop Kirby from pouncing on her. She's really starting to build a case against him!
Kirby had his head really far down under her at one point as she was reaching for a piece of lettuce near his ears. That was sorta cute, but she grabbed the lettuce and hopped away. Kirby really liked when she was eating off him and chewing near his body. He closed his eyes, looking pretty relaxed.
He loves to be loved... she just won't love him for some reason. She has no trouble giving me kisses but him, nope. :grumpy
I feel like we're back peddling again... Sigh. I'm going to scale back the duration again to maybe 10 minutes.
Mrs. PBJ
Well-Known Member
I hope its get better. I feel kinda bad my two are so easy seeing everyone else having trouble.
You want to switch LOL
You want to switch LOL
elrohwen
Well-Known Member
I really woudldn't expect grooming at this point - heck, my two are living together and I've seen grooming twice! I would focus on the other body language.
Her moving away from him is actually a good thing because it means that she's not fighting. At this stage of the game you just want to avoid fights. If they aren't fighting, they're working things out. It sounds like Kirby is deeply mistrustful of having another bunny around and it will take him time to learn that she isn't going to attack him first.
Her moving away from him is actually a good thing because it means that she's not fighting. At this stage of the game you just want to avoid fights. If they aren't fighting, they're working things out. It sounds like Kirby is deeply mistrustful of having another bunny around and it will take him time to learn that she isn't going to attack him first.
kirbyultra
Well-Known Member
Mrs. PBJ wrote:
Sorry, wouldn't trade Kirby for anything in the world :biggrin:
kirbyultra
Well-Known Member
elrohwen wrote:
However... given that the sessions have gone pretty lousy whenever he pounces on her, I think I might just err on the side of caution and break it up. If she wants to groom him one day, she will and it'll just happen...
Penny also peed on the floor today, btw. My fault, I forgot to bring her litter box out. After she peed, Kirby became really interested in sniffing her ... nether-regions. lol Not in a mean way, but in a curious and interested way.
Like I said, lot of mixed signals today!
elrohwen wrote:
Kirby does have this problem with trust. He always has. He trusts me now, after months and months of coaxing him. But now that we've crossed that bridge together, he gets cross with me if I don't pet him when he wants to be pet. He does the SAME thing to me that he does to Penny. (Pounce, scratch, and run) I know his M.O. and I am patient with him being his mom and all, but Penny is just another rabbit. I want to avoid the day she just says "I've had it with you!" and starts to act on it.
It's weird because Penny is a perfectly nice girl. She has never ever hurt him. The most offensive thing she's done is not groom him when he has put his head down in front of her. :expressionless
You know what the problem is - Kirby keeps making the session about demanding to be groomed. He sticks his head under her, tries to squeeze and be the one "underneath" her head. And then when he doesn't get love from her, he gets mad and pounces on her. He does it so often early on in every session that the only way to 100% prevent pouncing is to break it up as soon as he tries to lower his head in front of her. But then doing so will ruin any chance of her grooming him, if she wants to.
However... given that the sessions have gone pretty lousy whenever he pounces on her, I think I might just err on the side of caution and break it up. If she wants to groom him one day, she will and it'll just happen...
Penny also peed on the floor today, btw. My fault, I forgot to bring her litter box out. After she peed, Kirby became really interested in sniffing her ... nether-regions. lol Not in a mean way, but in a curious and interested way.
Like I said, lot of mixed signals today!
elrohwen wrote:
That makes sense -- she doesn't seem to want to fight him. She seems really mellow, not an aggressive bone in her body.
Kirby does have this problem with trust. He always has. He trusts me now, after months and months of coaxing him. But now that we've crossed that bridge together, he gets cross with me if I don't pet him when he wants to be pet. He does the SAME thing to me that he does to Penny. (Pounce, scratch, and run) I know his M.O. and I am patient with him being his mom and all, but Penny is just another rabbit. I want to avoid the day she just says "I've had it with you!" and starts to act on it.
It's weird because Penny is a perfectly nice girl. She has never ever hurt him. The most offensive thing she's done is not groom him when he has put his head down in front of her. :expressionless
