Bicillin Injections for Internal Abscess?

[Rooey]

Hello all. My rabbit, Cinda, has a large internal abscess--at least that is what they think it is primarily, as there was pus on the fine needle aspiration sample. She's been checked into the vet today for "exploratory surgery" and I am freaking out waiting to hear if she's ok. Most of what I'd read about abscesses said that the best way for a cure was removal, so it has come to this.

She's about six years old. She's an American fuzzy lop and hasn't had any real health issues in the past. Her appetite is still good and she doesn't appear to be in any pain. The abscess is quite large and makes it somewhat difficult for her to get around as she used to, and therefore she is less active-no more binkying around the yard.

I've come across some research/anecdotes on Bicillin injections. Most of what I'm seeing has to do with abscesses in the head area. Does anyone know of anyone who has used Bacillin injections for a large internal abscess? This one is located near the spleen. If so, where do you give the injections? If you're not injecting directily into the abscess, is it still able to penetrate? Any thoughts are greatly appreciated.

 

[tonyshuman]

The surest way to get rid of an abscess that is well defined is surgery. However, if the abscess is diffuse and/or not encapsulated with healthy tissue, bicillin may be a better choice. There is the concern of pockets of infection remaining and causing the abscess to reoccur. I am a bit curious as to how she could get a large abscess in the abdominal cavity--that's pretty unusual. If the abscess is in between some skin layers, it may be even better for removal. If it is removed, you will probably want to do bicillin treatments anyway to make sure it does not come back. If they can do a fine needle aspirate on it, and you are sure surgery is not the best choice, then maybe draining it with a needle and using bicillin to do the rest is the best option. There is the problem that all the fluid in the abscess has to go somewhere, and if it is quite large, that can be a lot of fluid. In addition, the center of a large abscess does not often have access to the blood so getting the antibiotic to penetrate deeply is a concern.

 

[Maureen Las]

I have used bicillin injections many times for various bacterial problems with my rabbits. I needed it to use it on a chronic basis with a holland lop who had severe periodontal disease and infected tooth roots. I also have used it for URI's and also for inner ear infections...very successfully.
Oftentimes it is best to to pair it with another oral drug for a powerful synergistic effect. Some folks use azithromycin and bicillin, I have used biciillin and oral baytril.
Chloramphenical orally is also a very good drug to penetrate encapsulated infections.
your vet may have done a culture and sensitivity to see what antibiotic will be most effective with the bacteria found.
it will be interesting for you to find out more about your rabbit's abscess and what may have created it.
Whatever... , after surgery there are many antibiotic possibilities.

 

[Rooey]

Well she survived the surgery and is doing pretty well. She started eating a little on her own yesterday afternoon and is eating today and using the litterbox a little. The vet put her on some meds to get her gut going again as she isn't eliminating a normal amount of waste. I'm a little worried because yesterday she didn't have a bowel movement until late at night and it consisted of a cluster of hard, tiny fecal pellets covered in yellow mucus, hopefully not entiritis! She is going a little more today, and I don't see any mucus.


The vet removed two masses that were abscesses. Neither were connected to any organs, but one was wrapped around her intestines. The one not wrapped around the intestines was pocketed with abscesses and the vet isn't sure what it is/was so he's sent off for a histopath. All in all they removed 1.4 lbs of this stuff and she's a little rabbit. She only weighed 5.5 lbs prior to the surgury!

She's on baytril and injectible penicillin, pain medication, and two meds to move her gut (cisapride & metoclopramide).

Vet also did a culture & sensitivity test to make sure we are using the most effective antibiotics.

I am so glad she is okay so far and hope we can nurse her back to full recovery!

 

[tonyshuman]

Yikes what a serious case! The anesthesia and pain meds can make the GI slow to get started again, so I wouldn't worry as long as she's pooping now. She could take up to a week to get back to normal pooping. A little mucus can be expected in the days immediately following general anesthesia.

Is it possible she had pyometra, an infection in the uterus? That's the only thing I can think of that would be in the abdomen that commonly gets infected. Whatever it was, I'm glad it's out, and I hope she recovers fully and quickly! A probiotic might help get the GI back to normal

 

[Maureen Las]

Glad that she made it through difficult surgery! Sounds like you have a good vet !!
let us know how she continues to progress!!!

 

[Rooey]

Yikes what a serious case! The anesthesia and pain meds can make the GI slow to get started again, so I wouldn't worry as long as she's pooping now. She could take up to a week to get back to normal pooping. A little mucus can be expected in the days immediately following general anesthesia.

Is it possible she had pyometra, an infection in the uterus? That's the only thing I can think of that would be in the abdomen that commonly gets infected. Whatever it was, I'm glad it's out, and I hope she recovers fully and quickly! A probiotic might help get the GI back to normal

She had been spayed years ago so I wouldn't think it would have anything to do with that. However, the vet mentioned something about a stump remaining after being spayed that could still develop cancer on it, so who knows. He didn't mention the stump of her uterus after the surgery at all. The piece he sent off for histopath was higher up, closer to her spleen, I believe.

 

[Rooey]

Glad that she made it through difficult surgery! Sounds like you have a good vet !!
let us know how she continues to progress!!!

Thanks, I think so too. Will keep you posted. She is doing really well today, eating like a horse.

 

[Rooey]

Sadly today the vet's office called with the results of the histopath and it is a sarcoma that will "most likely grow back" but there is no telling when, if it is slow growing or fast growing. They don't know where it started from either. The borders were cancerous, that is why they believe it will very likely grow back. I was not expecting that news. It has only been a week since the surgery and already she is is doing incredibly well. She's eating, using the litterbox regularly, and pretty darn active and affectionate as can be. It's like she's a young rabbit again, causing all kinds of trouble. It's sad to think she could quickly return to her former state. Then what could be done? This is depressing me very much.

I am also still very confused about the abscess part. I asked the vet tech who called to tell me about the histopath about the culture and sensitivity results and she said no bacteria grew. Do sarcoma and abscess go hand in hand? This is all very confusing. She's still on two antibiotics, is it for nothing?

 

[Maureen Las]

I would ask to talk directly to the vet or set up an an appointment specifically to talk to him . It sounds like the masses are tumors rather than abscesses??
I had a Holland lop who had a growth on his abdomen. It had irregular borders and looked cancerous; I had it removed and was told it was a fibrosarcoma which was aggressive ..also they did not get the borders :-(. It did begin to grow back almost immediately. I had planned on having it removed a second time but he passed away on his own and I did not have a necropsy done but related it to the cancer. He had developed some fine tremors in his legs but otherwise I could not tell that he was ill. He had really good quality of life until the day that he died.
I don't think there is a really good prognosis for this type of cancer but if you have the $$ and desire you may want to check out some exotic specialists ( usually at University hospitals) for possible suggestions of prolonging his life .

I am really sorry :imsorry::hug:

 

[Rooey]

Thanks, I have set up a follow up appointment for the vet for next week. I'm not sure if both of the masses were tumors, as he seemed pretty certain after he did the surgery that the one around the intestines was an abscess, but who knows. There was pus. Is pus a part of cancer? I guess I just need more info. I don't have much money but am willing to look into further treatment options with specialists. I wonder if radiation treatment or something could be done to prevent regrowth? I wonder how uncomfortable something like that would be for her.

My girl resembles a holland lop, though I think she's actually an american fuzzy lop. Sorry about your bunny. At least he didn't seem to be in much pain and I'm sure he knew he was loved.

 

[Rooey]

How long did your bunny live after the surgery? Was the mass on the exterior or interior? Were they able to tell from any tests that it was aggressive or was this found out after it started to grow so quickly? I'm so sorry. I can understand what it must have been like

 

[Maureen Las]

He live for under 6 months after diagnosis . They were able to tell by the cell type of the cancer that it was very aggessive and would return. After the first surgery the 2nd tumor started to regrow almost immediately in the exact same place that it was removed..but like I said before he didn't seem to know that he was very sick and behaved like a healthy rabbit.

The tumor was external and on his abdomen .

I would think that it would be possible for your bun to have both an infectious abscess and cancer simultaneously.

 

[Rooey]

It's good he didn't seem to feel sick. Cinda didn't really seem that bad before the surgery, she was still eating, though maybe less, and maybe not as active possibly because of the large size of the thing making it difficult to balance as well. But she didn't really seem to be in pain. Now she seems better than before the surgery. She seems healthier and more alert and it's only been a week and a few days. I am just trying to enjoy her being happy right now and figuring out what to do in the future--I sure hope if it regrows it isn't anytime soon. It must have been so devastating when your bunny's regrew

 

[tonyshuman]

Pus is a sign of infection almost always, if I remember correctly. It is possible that the tissue growing around the abscess capsule could become cancerous. Any tissue can become cancerous, but tissues that have to grow rapidly and are exposed to a variety of toxins (like bacterial toxins) are more likely to become cancerous. Maybe the uterus stump became infected after surgery, and the fibrous tissue that was forming as part of the healing process became cancerous over time. I am not sure, it is a complex situation. There is a debate in vet medicine on how to do rabbit spays (ovariohysterectomy, usually, meaning they remove both the ovaries and uterus, although not everyone takes the ovaries along with the uterus). Rabbits have 2 uterine horns, and they have 2 cervixes, one for each horn. Many animals have 2 uterine horns, but they usually only have one cervix, for instance cats. Vets can tie off the end of the ****** below where the 2 cervixes branch out, but then they are relying only on the strength of that tied off section healing to itself. If they tie off each horn separately above the cervix, the cervix helps keep the remaining tube closed because it is an area with a lot of muscle, etc. The single ligation totally removes all uterine tissue, which is known to be prone to cancer and tumors forming, but is less strong in terms of post-operative complications. The two ligations are stronger but leave a small amount of uterine tissue, which can lead to cancer at a later date, although I think that's pretty rare.

 

[Rooey]

She did have both her ovaries and uterus removed when she was spayed, about five years ago. I don't know if they did any kind of litigation. I had no idea that any part of the uterus would be left behind. I know the vet initially suspected the growth might be coming from a uterus stump, though it turned out not to be. I am currently debating whether or not to get my other female rabbit spayed. She is around six years old as well and for some reason I never had it done for her.

 

[Rooey]

Cinda's follow up appointment to the surgery went well. She appears to be doing great, though needs to put on some weight and continue with penicillin injections for a bit. Turns out it wasn't exactly two masses--the whole thing was connected and part of it was all abscess. I saw pictures, the thing was huge! I asked about radiation therapy to prevent regrowth, but I don't think they do that there. The vet is going to ask his colleague about herbal therapy. I should know more when we go back for a check-up again in two weeks.

The sarcoma had extensive necrosis and hemorrhaging, with a low mitotic rate. It could be slow growing, because of the low mitotic rate. I'm a bit confused about the necrosis and hemorrhaging and whether this is a good or bad thing. The culture and sensitivity test on the abscess didn't grow any bacteria. Could it be that her immune system is fighting the cancer and thus the necrosis, hemorrhaging, and abscess full of pus? If so, let's hope it attacks any remaining cancer cells without forming another huge abscess.

 

[Rooey]

Anyone know how to administer chlorophyll complex in pearl form to a rabbit? It's supposed to help prevent the return of the cancer. The vet also prescribed liquid echinacea, which is easily administered through a syringe(aside from her REALLY fighting it since she has more energy now), and cruciferous complete, which is a powder in a gelcap that I have just been dumping in her food.

The cruciferous complete is made of kale and brussel sprouts...which I already give her in their natural form...so I'm not as concerned with her getting the full amount of that product.

However, the chlorophyll complex really seems to be the good stuff. And it's fairly expensive.

I've tried just handing it to her. She chewed on it for a minute and spit it out. By the way, the package says "chewing this product is not recommended." I've also tried breaking the pearl open and mixing it with water, but it's really oily, so it didn't really work. I also broke it open and put it on a carrot, but it seems like she mostly ate around it. The stuff is really thick and oily and seems to harden almost instantly. I've already wasted a considerable amount of the product.