Bicillin and Zithromax

[12354somebunny]

I may have been in the dermal layer previously. Last night when I gave another injection to Hans, again I felt some resistance. I pushed the needle in just a little bit more and the meds went in very easily after that! I think I did fairly well with the injection last night

I did reply to christine, but I don't see my reply in the main page. I don't know if the reply went to christine only, instead of the rest of the group..

At this point, I'm not too keen on baytril either. After Hans' incisor extraction, he was on baytril for about 3 weeks and the abscess went away. However, the abscess returned a few weeks after that. Because my vet wasn't sure how quickly she could get bicillin, she put Hans on Baytril while she searched for bicillin, to prevent the abscess from getting worse. Baytril didn't work this time, Hans' abscess got bigger. I don't think baytril will help much this time round.

 

[Maureen Las]

Congrats on getting the injection correctly

Christine would have just got the reply personally. I have not heard much of a baytril/bicillin combination on this website but I have heard of people on etherbun using it. The idea of 2 drugs is the synergistic effect of the 2 drugs working together

Did you think about pming pipp re, the Chlorpalm? I know that some people are veryuncomfortable using that drug ( i was one of them) but i would use it now if given the opportunity and had a bun with an abscess..
there is the possibility of an appetite reduction but she would know about that in terms of her own rabbits.

 

[12354somebunny]

Hi Maureen,

Chlorpalm would be chloramphenicol?

I normally copy and save information from the Infirmary thread on my computer, so that I'll have quick access to it whenever necessary. I went through my notes for abscesses, and in there, it is said that 'chloramphenicol should not be used if penicillin is used'. Now, I can't remember who said that.. I'll pm Pipp to find out more about her treatment protocol with chlorpalm.

 

[tonyshuman]

Yes chlorpalm is the brand name for chloramphenicol.

 

[Maureen Las]

Streisand
Did you get in touch with Randy? :expressionless

You're right that technically Chloramphenical and bicillin is not recommended to be used together
Ibelieve that it isn't so much that it is 'dangerous" as that one drug inhibits the full action of the other.
I still know that Pipp has successfully treated abscesses with this combo
How is Hans?

Maureen

 

[12354somebunny]

Hi Maureen,

Thanks for asking I haven't heard from Randy yet, but I did hear from Pipp about using chlor palm + bicillin. I think for the time being, I'll stick to using only Benacillin. Hans started getting Benacillin last Monday, so it has only been a week of treatment. I'm keeping an eye on the abscess to see if it gets any smaller - at the moment, it hasn't increased in size but isn't significantly smaller either.

Hans is fine, otherwise. He's having his salad dinner now as I type I'll be giving him another injection after this.

Here's a photo of him taken last week, after my first attempt at giving him his jab:

 

[Maureen Las]

Hi Streisand

Hans is really a cutie !! darling!

I know from experience (and a few friends here ) that using the biillin can hold a bad infection at bay for a long long time meaning that it won't actually totally resolve it but it won't get worse either.


You can dowhat yourdoing and hopefully it will resolve.......... but at some point you may need another drug with it to actually get rid of it....

anyway I'm glad that he's doing OK now

keep us posted

Maureen

 

[12354somebunny]

That's my concern actually, since I'm still not certain whether I'm giving him the right dose. I haven't managed to figure out the conversion from mg/ml to units/ml I'm afraid that what Hans is getting is only a 'maintenance' dose.

I asked my vet again about the concentration of procaine and benzathine in Benacillin, and she thinks 150mg/ml is equivalent to 150K units/ml but I can't seem to find anything to support this on the internet

It's not that I don't trust my vet.. I'm really grateful that she helped me find the bicillin, taught me how to administer it etc. It's just that this is the first time she's tried bicillin on rabbits, and she calculated the dosage based on Randy's advice to me on the assumption that mg/ml = unit/ml. And if that assumption is incorrect, then the treatment might not effectively deal with the problem

Sorry for ranting. I shall try harder to find out whether Hans is getting the right dose. I sent an email to Marcy Moore (author of this article: http://www-unix.oit.umass.edu/~jwmoore/bicillin/bicillin.htm), to see if she has any advice for me. Still waiting for her reply.. In case studies attached to the article, the rabbits were abscess-free after being treated with bicillin only. So perhaps there is hope for Hans with Benacillin, at the right dosage.

I'm open to the idea of combining Benacillin with another antibiotic but since there seems to be conflicting thoughts about chloramphenicol (whether or not chloramphenicol should be given together with bicillin), I'm not sure at this point whether to introduce chloramphenicol to Hans..

My vet doesn't think its necessary to use another antibiotic, in fact she didn't think I needed to try Zithromax to begin with. So I guess her answer as to whether I should use chloramphenicol will be similar i.e. not necessary.

 

[tonyshuman]

He is such a doll. I too wish I knew the conversion from units to mg. Perhaps after 2 weeks of Benacillin, you can reassess the treatment to see if it is working, and add another drug if needed. I would have liked to see at least toms improvement in the first week, though.

 

[12354somebunny]

OK I just heard from Marcy. She says Benacillin's composition is very much similar to the US bicillin versions, the ones with 300K units/ml in total. And that she has had success using only bicillin alone.

tonyshuman, I was hoping to see improvements quickly too. I hope there'll be significant improvements by this weekend!

 

[Maureen Las]

somebunny wrote:

OK I just heard from Marcy. She says Benacillin's composition is very much similar to the US bicillin versions, the ones with 300K units/ml in total. And that she has had success using only bicillin alone.

tonyshuman, I was hoping to see improvements quickly too. I hope there'll be significant improvements by this weekend!

Wow !

You're a go-getter to go right to the author of that famous article and e-mail her

:blueribbon:in getting help for your bunny !!!

Congratson getting the info 'straight from the horses mouth" as we say over here.

Maureen

 

[12354somebunny]

The things we do for our buns!! :biggrin2: :biggrin2:

 

[12354somebunny]

I've just found a couple of write-ups where it says that 1mg = 1,000 IU. This is in respect of procaine penicillin. First paragraph, second page of this article: http://journals.cambridge.org/downl...78a.pdf&code=2c5b4261d5c4af2bdb323feb4fadd1e3 and also here: http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/journal/120798330/abstract?CRETRY=1&SRETRY=0

Still haven't found anything for benzathine penicillin but I suppose the conversion should be the same as for procaine..

 

[tonyshuman]

I agree that he conversion should be the same. The long form of the names are procaine benzylpenicillin and benzathine benzylpenicillin, so they both are converted in the body to benzylpenicillin, aka penicillin G. Benzathine benzylpenicillin differs from procaine benzylpenicillin in that it is a longer-acting form of the drug, as it hydrolyzes to penicillin G more slowly.

all of this from wikipedia

 

[12354somebunny]

Hans just passed away. I feel like crap

I was giving him his injection. 5 seconds after I was done, he went limp, gave a few soft breaths, shuddered and left us.

I can't figure out what happened. The injection went as usual, he didn't flinch or anything. What went wrong???????

I can't express how horrible I feel right now. I can't write anymore

Goodbye Hans. I love you so much and always will.

 

[Maureen Las]

OMG :shock:
I am probably as upset as you are.;
I am so very sorry ; very very sorry
When you feel better can you give any more details re his behavior recently ; was he improving ?

 

[tonyshuman]

How shocking! I'm so sorry. I am sure this wasn't due to anything you did. Was he pooping and eating normally? Acting normal otherwise? I really thought that he was on the right treatment and would be better soon. How terrible.

 

[Flashy]

I'm so sorry Streisand. I'm just really, very sorry.

Binky Free Hans.

 

[JadeIcing]

You did everything you could and even more. You were the best thing that could have happened to Hans.

 

[12354somebunny]

He was getting better. the abscess was getting smaller. it's my fault, i must have done something wrong with the injection. he didn't flinch so i don't think i hit his muscle/flesh. but dammit what if i hit a blood vessel?!!!! i feel so horrible