Bailey got a bad bite wound to her vagina

[sharper]

This happened yesterday, and i posted about it in Hailey & Bailey's thread in the Bunny Blogs. I'm going to copy and paste everything here.

I'm not going to post the pics directly, but I'll post links to the photos so you can look at your own discretion (it's disturbing to see).
http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c23/Jayson_Gold1980/DSC_0214.jpg?t=1234920630
http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c23/Jayson_Gold1980/DSC_0216.jpg?t=1234920676
http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c23/Jayson_Gold1980/DSC_0215.jpg?t=1234920751

Posted yesterday:
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[align=center]Bailey's Bad Day[/align]

My boyfriend had the day off today, so he put the girls in the play area (baby gated kitchen). The past 3-4 days have been the same, Bailey had been humping Hailey to show some dominance. It never got violent. Hailey would let it happen for a little bit, and then turn around and nip at Bailey. Bailey would try again in a few minutes. After awhile, they always end up laying together in a snuggle pile.

I was told to let it continue and let them work it out and eventually it will minimize. As long as it wasn't getting violent, it wasn't a big deal.

Today was different. I came home for lunch and sat in the livingroom while the rabbits did their thing in the kitchen. I heard them play with a few cardboard toys I had for them and I could hear some hops every now and then. I would check on them every now and then and Bailey was doing her usual humping. No big deal, just another day.

I sat back down in the living room and heard the soundest highest pitch squeal. I honestly didn't think it came from a rabbit, until I walked in to check on them. Hailey still had a huge ball of fur stuck to her chin. I walked over to check on it and it looked worse than I thought. It had a piece of skin on it. So I immediately ran to Bailey who was turned around looking at her butt.

I couldn't find anything at first, then I checked her anus/vagina area and there was a little bit of blood. OMG, I always joked that if Bailey was to hump Hailey's head one more time, she could rip off her vagina. I really didn't think that would happen!

I dab a paper towel on it and try to figure out what I'm looking at. Remember, I'm a new rabbit owner and I have no idea what all is going on down there. There is a little bit of blood, but it's not gushing. She squirms when you touch it, but when you put her down, she didn't seem like it was a big deal.

I had to get back to work, so I put her back in the cage with my boyfriend to keep an eye on her. Hailey stayed in the play area by herself.

During my day, i check in. My boyfriend said she was acting fine and everything was great. I get home, pick her up and check on her. OMG, it swelled up and the wound is still open. It wasn't bleeding, but it was still wet and raw. She got down and walked around like normal, ate hay, demanding head rubs and was pooping just fine. Her poops even came out normal. I kept wondering if I was just overreacting since she isn't showing signs of pain.

We took some pics of it for a rabbit forum for advice. I don't want to post the photos here in their blog. But let me just say they are gross.

Now here I am, new paranoid mom in a panic, wondering if I need to take my girl to the vet to stitch up her vagina. We are still waiting to see if she pees.

I dunno what to do from here but I think a vet visit in the morning will be happening.
-------------------------------------

Today:
-UPDATE-

Well the vet that was really close by, just happens to be there every single day of the week, but Wednesdays. My luck. The emergency clinic that was a little further away usually does see rabbits, but when I called they currently had no one on staff for rabbits at that time. Great. The next closest place was about 40 mins away, and in morning traffic wasn't awesome. And the vet wasn't getting in until 9, so I ran up to work early this morning, finished whatever had a really hot deadline and then left. We got her there okay.

You know it's complicated when the vet looks at the wound and says, "Hmmm this is interesting." The assistant wanted to take her temperature and couldn't figure out where to put the thermometer, so I pleaded with her to skip this step, so we did. I really didn't want her in too much pain. The doc pulled the wound open to have a look and told me she really has a badly wounded vagina. It was pretty swollen. But since this is a delicate procedure and the wound was very complicated, he said she probably needed stitches, but he didn't really know where or what to stitch. He didn't want to mess something up since there was vital elements here. But she is peeing, so that's good and nothing needed to be reconstructed or any surgery. Whew!

He gave her an injection of something for pain. They did an extensive hydrotherapy wash of the wound. And sent me home with pain meds and antibiotics to give her. I'm already at work, and didn't bring the sheet with me, so I couldn't tell you the names of the medications, but Ill update when I get home for lunch later. We have to keep the rabbits separated until she's completely healed, so we needed to figure out the cage issue when we got home. Got it worked out nicely, but I think my 2 rats who were living in a huge mansion were p*ssed to be put into a smaller cage. lol -musical cages time!-

As I was working with the cage issue, my boyfriend was holding Bailey and she fell asleep in his arms. So I'm pretty sure the pain meds took effect and she was feeling better already.

Oh and now I have to figure out how to give Bailey meds with a syringe. One of them is honey flavored, so she might not mind. The vet was going to demonstrate how to give her meds and he couldn't even get her mouth open. She was very squirmy and barking at him. So this will be fun!

I also was told to keep some vaseline on it to keep the area moist. He said that swollen tissue tends to dry up and we don't want that.

She's soundly sleeping in a cage by herself with warm blankies while I'm at work. Will update when I see her again.
------------------------------

sharper wrote:

I'm checking on Bailey during my lunch break. She's very calm now with pain meds. She is sleepy and huddled in her "hospital cage." She accepts ear rubs as payment, though.

I see normal looking poops. But she hasn't peed yet - so its been at least 5 hours since last pee.

sleepy head:

And I think little blue cars on her blankies really makes a difference.

Oh and looking at her invoice,
injection - Buprenex
oral meds - metacam & bactrim/sulfatrimeth

 

[Luvr of Wabbits and Polar Bears]

OUCH. I hope that Bailey heals nicely with no problems to arise later.

Most bunny's love Metacam. I know my girl does.

 

[Maureen Las]

First of all this injury really sounds serious and if your girl is not showing pain responses it is because rabbits hide distress..

I am sure that prior to her meds that she has been in a lot of pain.

I think that in this particular case you are going to have to find the most experienced exotics vet that you can..perhaps we can help you on this site locate someone or you could contact the HRS in your area.
It sounds as if the emergency vet did emergency work but I would guess that there is more restorative work that needs to be done with her genital area and she most likely should be on systemic antibiotics to prevent infection

The issues surrounding her careare enormous as you have a severe wound in the middle of a very contaminated area of the body.
you said that she is pooping but is she eating?

Also is she taking in fluids?

Keep monitoring her for urine output.
I will send you some links re. giving meds and also contact afew people for assistance here.

http://www.rabbitsonline.net/view_topic.php?id=15552&forum_id=10

 

[Maureen Las]

If she has not been taking in any fluids it will be a good idea for you to have a vet or tech show you how to do subqutaneous fluids . I have a strong feeling that this girl is going to have GI issues after such a horrific disturbance to her body.

I also had 1 of my neutered males escape his area one night years ago and manage to get into another male's area ; they fought all night while I was asleep and in the AM Joey was almost in a comotose state of shock but was in general unharmed physically.
He went into GI stasis from the stress of the incident which required many days of me syringe feeding and giving him fluids by mouth. In your girls case she is going to have pain in her genital area which most likely will disrupt her normal GI functioning .
right now you can syringe her infant pedialyte to prevent dehydration (if she is not drinking) but only if she will swallow. With a severe injury like this it would be easier on both of you if she got subqutaneous fluids byinjections

You need to find out what type of antibiotics that the vet prescribed because an antibiotic is almost surely going to be absolutely necessary with these types of wounds. It is good that the vet was able to do a good flush of the area because bite wounds are notorious for infection.

She will need you to be vigilent about giving pain medications. I must stress that this is a very painful injury for her and that pain will lower her immune response.
it also will be necessary for you to start to think of how you will be feeding her although right now fluids are most important.
Some foods like critical care by oxbow, pure canned pumpkin, baby food is vegetable flavors and even mashed and watered down pellets are good for syringing.
I doubt if she will be eating on her own but try to tempt her with wet fresh green veggies like parsley and cilantro etc.

 

[krsbunny]

It sounds like the emergency vet did a good job and the meds she is on are a good start. I would still try to get her in to your regular rabbit-experienced vet tomorrow -- take the pictures along to help her evaluate how it looks tomorrow compared to today. My personal "intuition" on antibiotics would be bicillin since I understand this is the "drug of choice" against bacteria in the mouth ... and since this is a bite wound, that would be at least part of the bacteria that might be involved.

It is good that she is resting comfortably. If it were me, I would keep these two separate permanently. Of course that is why I have 4 "singles" in my home.

Kathy

 

[Maureen Las]

If you will post your location in your profile it will be easier for us to help you find a really experienced rabbit vet ( if you need to)

 

[ra7751]

To add a bit on what I had posted on the original thread.....something I might would ask the vet about is mixing SSD cream with injectable Baytril to form a pasteand use it as a topical on the injuries...or more precisely, a packing. This is something I have used with cottontails with degloving injuries from cat attacks.

To briefly update on my post on the other thread....Buprenexand Metacam are being used together for pain management. This is an excellent combination of analgesics and is safe overall. Buprenex canslow the gut a bit....and all of you know of the issues with NSAIDs used long term or in dehydrated animals. I think most of you know that I am not a fan of Sulfanomides...but they are used often in skin issues since they are highly effective against staph (and staph is many times seen in skin infections) along with pasteurella. Sulfa has a high possibility of causing some serious GI upset so probiotics are called for to support the flora in the gut. Personally, I would prefer injectable antibiotics (as I do most of the time) and I would think that Convenia, or as Kathy mentioned, Penicillin could also be considered but I would be concerned with resistance issues if staph becomes involved. I think the medical response to this event has been textbook. The idea behind emergency treatment is to stabilize the patient. That appears to be the case here. Now, the next phase is to initiate healing and implement any corrective procedures as required.

And I totally agree with Kathy....keep those two separated.

Randy

 

[Maureen Las]

Well I just went back and read the inital blog and realize that you have been receiving assistance from Randy and other members in the blog before the transfer to the infirmary.
I was a bit shook up by the photos of her injuries.

A lot of people are here to help so just keep up-dating her progress.

 

[sharper]

Okay, wow, a lot of posts to respond to.

First of all....this is NOT an emergency vet. This is a rabbit specialist that I went to. I originally tried to go to an emergency clinic, but they didn't have a rabbit specialist on staff. So I waited till this particular rabbit specialist office opened up at 9am, and I could bring her in right at 9.

This isn't just any rabbit specialist I could find online or in yellow pages. This one was highly recommended by huge local and reputable rabbit rescue. There were a couple others that were closer to me, but I drove nearly an hour away to get to the best one that came highly recommended.

So this wasn't some emergency procedure that was done by an emergency vet that didn't know what he was doing.

K, just wanted to get that part out of the way

 

[sharper]

angieluv wrote:

First of  all this injury really sounds serious and if your girl is not showing pain responses it is because rabbits hide distress..

I am sure that prior to her meds that she has been in a lot of pain.

I think that in this particular case you are going to have to find the most experienced exotics vet that you can..perhaps we can help you on this site locate someone or you could contact the HRS in your area.
It sounds as if the emergency vet did emergency work but I would guess that there is more restorative work that needs to be done with her genital area and she most likely should be on systemic antibiotics to prevent infection

The issues surrounding her care are  enormous as you have a severe wound in the middle of a very contaminated area of the body.
you said that she is pooping but is she eating?

Also is she taking in fluids?

Keep monitoring her for urine output.
I will send you some links re. giving meds and also contact afew people for assistance here.

http://www.rabbitsonline.net/view_topic.php?id=15552&forum_id=10

The pooping has picked up to be more normal in quantity and more often tonight than it was earlier in the day. As of the poop, itself, it's looked completely normal the whole time.

The urine is a different story. She is peeing and the pee spots look big and normal. I have her on top of blankets, so that I can see the pee spots better. But I have no idea if her peeing as often as she normally would. I just never monitored how often a rabbit pees, you know? So do you know about how many hours passes before a normal rabbit pees again?

She did pee this evening, but it seemed like she held it in for a while because she hadn't peed all day since her vet visit, but when she peed tonight, it was a lot of it. I'm sure it was a full bladder. It is hard to wonder if the lack of urinating is because she is dehydrated or more that it burns to pee, so she holds it in as much as she can. She doesn't make any squeals or anything when she does pee.

She's eating like a piggy as always. It doesn't seem like she slowed down on eating at all....pellets, veggies, hay. But I haven't noticed her drinking from her water bottle, so every so often I go to the cage and stick the drinking tube in her face and she'll actually start drinking, but I just have to keep reminding her. When I make her salad, I ran the romain, kale and collards under plenty of water, so they were pretty wet when she ate them.

 

[Maureen Las]

That's good..

like I said i didn't read the blog until I had read the post in the infirmary and I was attempting to process a lot of info at once.

glad that you have a top notch vet already

 

[sharper]

angieluv wrote:

If she has not been taking in any fluids it will be a good idea for you to have a vet or tech show you how to do subqutaneous fluids . I have a strong feeling that this girl is going to have GI issues after such a horrific disturbance to her body.

I also had 1 of my neutered males escape his area one night years ago and manage to get into another male's area ; they fought all night while I was asleep and in the AM Joey was almost in a comotose state of shock but was in general unharmed physically.
He went into GI stasis from the stress of the incident which required many days of me syringe feeding and giving him fluids by mouth. In your girls case she is going to have pain  in her genital area which most likely will disrupt her normal GI functioning .
right now you can syringe her infant pedialyte to prevent dehydration (if she is not drinking) but only if she will swallow. With a severe injury like this it would be easier on both of you if she got subqutaneous fluids by injections

You need to find out what type of antibiotics that the vet prescribed because an antibiotic is almost surely going to be absolutely necessary with these types of wounds. It is good that the vet was able to do a good flush of the area because bite wounds are notorious for infection.

She will need you to be vigilent about giving pain medications. I must stress that this is a very painful injury for her and that pain will lower her immune response.
it also will be necessary for you to start to think of how you will be feeding her although right now fluids are most important.
Some foods like critical care by oxbow, pure canned pumpkin, baby food is vegetable flavors and even mashed and watered down pellets  are good for syringing.
I doubt if she will be eating on her own but try to tempt her with wet fresh green veggies like parsley and cilantro etc.

Thanks a ton for this info!

As for her meds, she got an injection of Buprenex while at the clinic, then she got the hydrotherapy wash of the area. We were sent home with her oral meds metacam (1 time a day for 5 days) & bactrim/sulfatrimeth (2 times a day). Because she had already had an injection earlier this morning, he told me to wait till later in the evening to give her medication.

Thanks for the pedialyte idea. Even though I can remind her to drink water and she does do this, I'm going to head to walmart and grab some tonight. I think that should help a ton!

These food ideas are great too. She is eating just fine with what I give her, but something wet like baby food should really help her keep hydrated. I do have all natural apple sauce - can i give her some of that?

 

[Maureen Las]

Wow it's good that she's eating well
and I would guess that she is holding her urine but voiding when her bladder is full which means that her bladder, urethra etc are not injured.

i would continue to take the bottle to her to drink, wet her veggies or even try a crock to see if she will drink more out of that. it is very very important to keep fluids in her. You can even flavor her water with some apple juice to encourage her to drink.

 

[sharper]

ra7751 wrote:

To add a bit on what I had posted on the original thread.....something I might would ask the vet about is mixing SSD cream with injectable Baytril to form a paste and use it as a topical on the injuries...or more precisely, a packing.  This is something I have used with cottontails with degloving injuries from cat attacks. 

To briefly update on my post on the other thread....Buprenex and Metacam are being used together for pain management.  This is an excellent combination of analgesics and is safe overall.  Buprenex can slow the gut a bit....and all of you know of the issues with NSAIDs used long term or in dehydrated animals.  I think most of you know that I am not a fan of Sulfanomides...but they are used often in skin issues since they are highly effective against staph (and staph is many times seen in skin infections) along with pasteurella.  Sulfa has a high possibility of causing some serious GI upset so probiotics are called for to support the flora in the gut.  Personally, I would prefer injectable antibiotics (as I do most of the time) and I would think that Convenia, or as Kathy mentioned, Penicillin could also be considered but I would be concerned with resistance issues if staph becomes involved.  I think the medical response to this event has been textbook.  The idea behind emergency treatment is to stabilize the patient.  That appears to be the case here.  Now, the next phase is to initiate healing and implement any corrective procedures as required.

And I totally agree with Kathy....keep those two separated.

Randy

I went to the pharmacy store to try and find the Silver whatever SSD cream stuff....I couldn't find it, so I asked someone and they told me that was a prescription only. So I couldn't get any of it...

So instead, i went with the vet's idea of keeping the area moist and protect it with some vaseline. I really would like the silver stuff, though....bummer.

I am keeping a good eye on the area, it's ton down a ton! It looks so much better than it did this morning. The swelling is minimal now. It was even a little dried up when I first put some vaseline on it. The vet told me to keep a good eye on it throughout the day, for the next 5 days. If at all it seems to be swelling or oozing or anything showing that it's getting worse, then I have to bring her back in for injection antibiotics.

She has a followup vet appt in 5 days.

And oh - they are so staying separated. Hailey is starting to act sad or something now. I think she misses Bailey. She's been eating, but she just stays huddled in a corner, hardly drinking and not much urinating. I keep trying to pay her some attention so she doesn't get bored. Given her past, I'm sure she has never been in a cage by herself before. She's even skittish today more than normal. So weird.

 

[sharper]

angieluv wrote:

Wow it's good that she's eating  well
and I would guess that she is holding her urine  but voiding when her bladder is full which means that her bladder, urethra etc are not injured.

i would continue to take the bottle to her to drink, wet her veggies or even try a crock to see if she will drink more out of that. it is very very  important to keep fluids in her. You can even flavor her water with some apple juice to encourage her to drink.

Oh that's a great idea! I'll try that and see how it goes.

 

[Maureen Las]

I have a bun who doesn't drink muchand has concentrated urine. just recently I have started to add a small amount of unflavored cranberry juice to his water to encourage more fluids. He now drinks the whole bowlful.

I think Randy is talking about silver sulfadine creme which is often used for burns. It is by prescription only. I used it once when I got a 2nd degree burn on my hand. It was a thick cream that when applied really just stopped the pain of the burn . and then a bandage was applied.

I never heard of it being mixed with baytril to have antibiotic effect ..that really sounds like a smart idea.

only issue would be keeping her from eating it.

 

[krsbunny]

SSD + Baytril is essentially what Baytril Otic is. In the mid-90's the vet I was taking Smokey to for ear problems was the one who developed Baytril Otic. Dr. Allan has had me use Baytril Otic on Holly's bottom.

Kathy

 

[dquesnel]

sharper wrote:

And oh - they are so staying separated. Hailey is starting to act sad or something now. I think she misses Bailey. She's been eating, but she just stays huddled in a corner, hardly drinking and not much urinating. I keep trying to pay her some attention so she doesn't get bored. Given her past, I'm sure she has never been in a cage by herself before. She's even skittish today more than normal. So weird.

I just wanted to quickly add that you may want to give Hailey a really good look over if you hadn't already. In the fight it is totally possible both may be injured, but sometimes it is really easy to overlook injuries. If Hailey was also injured that may account for her odd behavior. She may also be shaken up from the fight too, and by being alone like you mentioned. Just in case... I would want to give her a good physical check.

 

[Maureen Las]

dquesnel wrote:

sharper wrote:

And oh - they are so staying separated. Hailey is starting to act sad or something now. I think she misses Bailey. She's been eating, but she just stays huddled in a corner, hardly drinking and not much urinating. I keep trying to pay her some attention so she doesn't get bored. Given her past, I'm sure she has never been in a cage by herself before. She's even skittish today more than normal. So weird.

I just wanted to quickly add that you may want to give Hailey a really good look over if you hadn't already. In the fight it is totally possible both may be injured, but sometimes it is really easy to overlook injuries. If Hailey was also injured that may account for her odd behavior. She may also be shaken up from the fight too, and by being alone like you mentioned. Just in case... I would want to give her a good physical check.

Yeah Denise you're right ...........

we're forgetting about Hailey... about 2 days after the fight at my house I described earlier in this post I felt both buns all over and found little scabs on both of them
; it was hard to clean them at that point but i tried (so afraid of abscesses.)


Haileycould have more minor injuries.

 

[sharper]

It wasn't really a fight. Bailey was humping Hailey's head, she bit her and Bailey ran far away from Hailey. But since I didn't see the whole thing, I'll definitely check on Hailey. I held her and brushed her last night, but she didn't really react affectionately like she used to. But this morning was different. I opened her cage and she came to the door to greet me. She let me rub her head and was sweet. She was also hungry so she paced and put her paws up on the door while I was making her breakfast. This is definitely normal behavior from Hailey, so I was happy she was coming back around. I put their cages side by side with some space inbetween each other so they couldn't reach each other but see each other, and they actually lay down on the side of the wall of the cage that is next to the other cage. It's like they are laying together with a wall between them. So I know they still love each other.

i didn't have any apple juice last night, but I did have some apple sauce on hand. I put a little bit of that in the water and mixed it up and she still wouldn't touch it. Then I dumped it out and just gave her straight apple sauce, she wouldn't touch that either. But she would eat her veggies and hay with no probs. I knew I couldn't give her anything with banana, because I already found out she doesn't like banana either. But I knew she likes apple, so it was weird to see her turn down apple sauce.

I marked the water level on the water bottle last night to see if it had gone down when I got up this morning. The water level hadn't moved, but she had peed two more times throughout the night. So as I was changing her blankets this morning, I started to wonder if maybe she just doesn't like this water bottle. I mean, all of my water bottles are the same exact size and brand, same color and everything. But the one she used to drink out of was currently in Hailey's cage. It was just a weird idea and I was sure that wasn't the case, but I switched water bottles anyway. And you know what?? She started drinking from it like she was dying of thirst! She just kept drinking water for a long while. I was so excited! I felt so much better. I can't believe that was the problem! She just didn't like this particular water bottle! LOL weird!

There was a ton more poopies this morning also, and they all looked normal - yay!

Oh and what made me feel even better, right as soon as she was done drinking, she did a little binky. It wasn't a jump or anything, but she got up on her hind legs and did it - twice. I was thrilled!

Too bad I had to ruin the moment with stupid medicine time. I had to give her the yummy honey flavor stuff. At first, I tried to give it to her as a treat. I had a little bit coming out of the syringe and I held it up to her. She smelled it and turned her head the other way. So I was sure we were going to do this the hard way. I grabbed the towel and wrapped her up....this is really hard to do on my own since she was squirming. Her little arms wouldn't stay in it, so we had to rewrap a couple of times to get it right. I guess she remembers this from last night, because she immediately ducked her head under the towel like a turtle ducking into it's shell. I lower the towel a little more under her chin, held her tight and tried to do all this one handed while slipping the syringe to the side of her mouth. 1/10 CC at a time, and she would shake her head back and forth, duck, squirm, whatever she can do to avoid it. I was having so many problems! It took me 15 minutes to give her 1.13 CC's of medicine. I was running late for work, so I had to wake up the boyfriend to come hold her while I did the medicine. She was even a big struggle for him. It was just not a good experience for any of us. I really hope she gets the hang of it, but I don't think so. She's going to be a feisty, stubborn thing when it comes to medicine.