BAD Day, BAD Fight =(

[SDShorty]

So, Dori and Enkei fully bonded back in March. They have been living together in the same cage since then. They have had a couple fights since then inside their cage, but nothing big (that I know of), although I did have to separate them once. A couple of times when they were roaming the apartment I went to the bathroom and came back out to a living room FULL of fur tufts :?. They were separate, once was in the cage hangin' out, the other one was out in the living room, breathing a little hard, but not alarming. I could only assume they had a scuffle. Well today was BAD. I woke up and they were snuggled together in their cage. I went and opened the door for them to roam, and went to the kitchen. Within a minute I hear something and saw them run into the living room, I rushed in there and saw them attached and going around in circles and fur flying! :nerves1 Immediately I jumped in and put my hand in to separate them and suddendly I hear a LOUD SCRREEECH! I don't know if it was Dori or Enkei, but one of them screemed! :cry2 I think Enkei was haning on to Dori with his teeth, I don't know if her face or what, but pulled when I separated them. They ran their separate ways, and I tried to inspect both of them but didn't see any blood from the surface. Neither was limping or anything, or acting weird beside breathing kind of hard right after I separated them. After this I fed them their morning salad, and had them eat separately, Dori ate in her cage and Enkei ate in the living room. But like within 10 minutes they came back together and started cuddling again :expressionless.

OMG it was so scary! What is the deal with these guys!? Do you guys have any scary fight stories from buns that are already 'supposedly' bonded??

 

[Brandy456]

Are they BOTH fixed ?
I was thinking maybe that if one isnt and he/she tried to uhm, get it on while the other was totally appauled to it.

Maybe it would be a good idea to keep them together only when you're in the room, =/
Btw, I wouldn't put my hand in thte middle again if I were you, I know it's instinct but it's probably not the best thing to do if you like you fingers whole. Maybe use a broom, heck even the dust pan would work.
:hug:

 

[SDShorty]

Brandy456 wrote:

Are they BOTH fixed ?
I was thinking maybe that if one isnt and he/she tried to uhm, get it on while the other was totally appauled to it.

Maybe it would be a good idea to keep them together only when you're in the room, =/
Btw, I wouldn't put my hand in thte middle again if I were you, I know it's instinct but it's probably not the best thing to do if you like you fingers whole. Maybe use a broom, heck even the dust pan would work.
:hug:

Yea both of them are fixed. However, ever since Enkei joined us and we began the bonding process a long while back, Dori the female has a bad habit of mounting Enkei, the boy. Now that they are bonded she still does this sometimes, and he gets really irritated, so I'm having a hard time getting her to stop doing this. However, I don't think that's what happened this morning, because I litereally only took my eyes of them for seconds before they started fighting. They were fine in their cage until I opened it to let them free and all heck broke loose :expressionless.

LOL yea thanks about the putting my hand in. I didn't even realize it until after the whole ordeal that I got a ton of scratches on the back of my hand. But like you said, it was just instict to separate them immediately! :nerves1

 

[Brandy456]

No offence but if their going to get at it, your hand in the middle, since as an instint for pain to pull it back wont do very much, for very long.
Do you maybe think he's still a bit territorial about the 'outside world' ?

 

[maherwoman]

Admittedly, I don't know much about bonding, but if your bunnies fight now and then, they don't sound completely bonded to me...at least not enough to be living together full-time.

I would consider taking them in to the vet's and having them both checked over, to be sure you didn't miss any scratches or gashes (which is VERY easy for a bunny to hide). Fiver had a chunk of fur missing bigger than a silver dollar once, and I didn't see it until I thoroughly went backwards in his fur than the way it lays...and even then, it took a few times before I saw the missing fur. It'd be even easier for them to hide a scratch or gash...it's something bunnies are very good at, hiding pain/injuries.

If you missed any scratches or gashes, they could turn into abscesses (which is where their skin forms a layer over the injury and fills it with pus, and it is just an infection sitting there...and would need to be cut and drained and the bun treated with antibiotics). It's just something a bun's body does naturally.

At any rate, again I'm no expert on bonding, but I do know that in my own household, I would separate buns that fight now and then...as it's not worth them winding up with an abscess that doesn't heal, or something like that.

Hugs to you and the buns,

Rosie*

P.S. Sorry to have bad news about this...it's just so important that you understand that there could be serious consequences to even the smallest bunny fight.

 

[bunniekrissy]

My bonded trio fought once in a while when they were newly bonded. When that happened, I threw them in the travel cage and took them for a car ride together and that calmed things down. Eventually they stopped having those little episodes. I agree that maybe if they are still having serious fights you should keep them apart when you're not home to keep an eye out. Also, check them over every day for a few days to make sure no minor bites form abscesses. The abscesses may appear as non-visible lumps or may look red if there is an open cut.

 

[Flashy]

I would say check them daily over a week because often you only notice scabs when they appear as scabs, not the actual wounds.

I would also say that there is a trigger to all this.

Some rabbits are just not bondable and the risks outweigh the lovely parts. A few months ago a pair we adopted out started to fight but only sometimes, however, it was enough that it was severe enough that we decided it was not the worth the risk.

I think you may be facing that with these. All pairs squabble to a greater or lesser degree, but this seems very extreme.

I think you might need to look at having them together only supervised and also looking for a trigger to this behaviour (it could be food, a smell, a place, a time of day, a person/animal) because that's the only way to have a chance at stopping it.

 

[SDShorty]

Thank you everyone for your advice! The first thing I'm going to do is set up an appointment with the vet to have them fully checked over. I'm also going to contact the person at the House Rabbit Society where I adopted Enkei. She is the one that helped me along the bonding process, and I will also see what she has to say. Like i said, they don't fight all the time and they have never drawn blood, but it does sound to me also like they are still working on their bonding. Unfortunately I work all day so I can't keep an eye on them from 7am to 6pm, so I might have to put up the barrier in their cage to keep them separate while I'm at work and only let them be together when I'm at home. I'm kind of nervous I didn't do that today though and my job is way too far from home. But my husband is home though, so even though he will wake up pretty late, I did leave him a note letting him know about the fight and to keep an eye on them. Thanks again!

 

[Brandy456]

maherwoman wrote:

Admittedly, I don't know much about bonding, but if your bunnies fight now and then, they don't sound completely bonded to me...at least not enough to be living together full-time.

I was thinking that too,



while you're at work can you maybe give one the kitchen (enclosed) and one the bathroom ?

 

[Flashy]

I think to work out if they are still working on their bonding you need to work out the trigger. I think after all this time this is not about the bonding process but something deeper that is happening with your rabbits.

 

[SDShorty]

Well I know that Dori's mounting has a lot to do with it, that seems to be a big trigger if not the main one. She mounts him, he gets really upset and the tiff begins. I don't know how to stop her from mounting him though

 

[SDShorty]

Well there is a barrier I can put in their cage. When I was bonding them the big cage was split in half with a barrier in between them. So I can put that back up while I'm out, and I think that's what I will do until I can work this out.

Brandy456 wrote:

maherwoman wrote:

Admittedly, I don't know much about bonding, but if your bunnies fight now and then, they don't sound completely bonded to me...at least not enough to be living together full-time.

I was thinking that too,



while you're at work can you maybe give one the kitchen (enclosed) and one the bathroom ?

 

[maherwoman]

To help with knowing a bit what's behind things...

Females mounting other bunnies is a show of dominance. Perhaps they're fighting over who's to be the Alpha bun?

 

[Flashy]

Do you know what makes her mount him? Is it a specific time of day? Or when they are let out in a specific area? Is it specific weather? Or some other trigger like food?

This may be that they won't work together because even if you can work out the trigger some are not sortable (like the weather).

 

[Flashy]

maherwoman wrote:

To help with knowing a bit what's behind things...

Females mounting other bunnies is a show of dominance. Perhaps they're fighting over who's to be the Alpha bun?

It can also be a sign of 'spring' which can occur in times of excitement (even in spayed bunnies), specific weather, etc, as well as being a dominance issue (which might occur with something like food or a specific smell or signs of illness).

 

[SDShorty]

I honestly don't know why she mounts him. It's just random, sometimes they'll just be cuddling, and grooming, and she'll just slowly get on top of him. It's not always at a certain time or in a certain location. This really seems to be their only problem. I mean they are completely fine in every other aspect. Even when one steals food from the other, they dont' even fight about it, they are not aggressive towards each other in any other way besides this, which is what makes this so frustrating

 

[Flashy]

Unfortunately, even if they are ok in every other way, they are not ok in this way and you always have to look at worst case scenario.

It might be worth observing the behaviour and seeing if it can be attributed to anything that you hadn't considered before.

It might be that she does something nice for him then wants to remind him she is boss, but it could be more complex than that. If it is that that is the case then I doubt you'll be able to work through that.

 

[maherwoman]

Wow...great advice, Tracy...I didn't realize it could mean other things...

 

[Flashy]

I learnt all that the hard way Glad you didn't think I was belittling your comment or anything. I was just agreeing and adding.

 

[maherwoman]

Oh no...not at all, Hun. I think it was great advice.

((HUGS))