Baby Bunny sudden change in mood, appetite, basically everything :( Please help (RESOLVED)

[angelh]

Day 1: Brought baby bunny home. She was happy, she even binkied on her first day home, had a verocious appetite, slept around us, followed us around the room, droppinngs like black pepper seeds, dark yellow thick urine. Chewed on hay

Day 2: She was happy and interested in everything, allowed to be handled, very active, ate a lot, had her first tiny cube of carrots. Droppings like black pepper seeds, clear dilute urine. Chewed on hay

Day 3: We changed her hay and pine lining. I found out that the mixed dried seeds and whatnot i gave her were not very good for her and would make her fat. I took away the food and let her go at the hay. She tried lettuce and some more carrots. Droppings like black pepper seeds, clear dilute urine. Chewed on hay

Day 4: She was normal in the morning, but I gave her less food than before (2 times a day until I got the good type of pellets) , clear dilute urine, falling asleep in our arms, friendly.
In the afternoon a friend came, I thought he was gentle enough buy Piffy struggled for a bit in his hands, she didn't quite like the way he held her i think.
Late afternoon, Piffy started sleeping a whole lot (in our arms). She didn't awake to noises that would normally startle her. She didn't eat a lot (she came running when food was waved in her face but left after a while, instead of the normal staying and eating for a whole hour.
Night, Piffy was almost always asleep. She didn't run around at all, didn't respond to anything, just woke now and then to stretch and then fall back asleep .
Droppings like pepper seeds. less urine. Didn't have much interest in hay. Not much interest in food either.

Day 5: (it's morning now) I woke up expecting to see little Piffy hopping beside my bed waiting for me to wake up as usual. Instead I took 5 minutes to have to find her, (i finally found her sleeping soundly under my bed - didn't she hear us calling?) I tried to tempt her with food, but she took a bite of it and turned back to her hiding place. She didn't want us to touch her. Her droppings were normal, but i found a patch of her urine that was thick and dark-colored like the first day she came home.

Please help me. I know I shouldn't let her out freely while we are sleeping (i shouldn' t give excuses but we stay very far from the city and we haven't found the time to go out to get her the necessary things) .

This is her box. She used to hop in and out of it from the "window", then found it easier just jumping over the edge. After about the 2nd day she didn't like to stay inside the box anymore. She always ate and drank inside the box, but slept, groomed, and did her business outside.

What is wrong with my bunny? Is it the food? we were planning to get her proper timothy hay and pellet food this saturday. is there something else? or has my bunny simply gotten over the initial excitement phase? do baby bunnies sleep a lot? do they like to play with people and look at everything and follow people around the first few days then ignore people and eat nothing after the excitement wanes?

I honestly don't think that's the case. Please help me. Is bunny's change serious enough to be seen by the vet?

 

[NorthernAutumn]

First off: You've done a wonderful description of activity and symptoms. That will make the job a lot easier. Thank you for that


I have a few general suggestions for general care off the top:
- Alfalfa hay is fine for tiny buns, like this one.
- Pine litter is not advisable, due to chemical reaction with urine. Aspen or Yesterday's news is OK... even shredded newspaper and a bit of hay is OK.
- Iceberg lettuce can give little ones diarrhea... Many folks advise a pellet and hay only diet when they are young.

Questions:
- Any plants within reach? Any carpet available to chew?
- Any cloth in reach?
- How much water has she been drinking?
- How old is she?


My brain is going a few directions:
- Darker yellow urine may be indicating digestive response to change in food and addition of vegetables.
- May also indicate lower water consumption (same as you and I & our urine)
- White rabbit... maybe deaf... thus unresponsive?
- Young rabbit... perhaps too young... maybe ill.
- There has been a food switch, or two
- Just changed environments... likely stressed.


I am not an Infirmary mod, by any means. Just because I mentioned a possibility doesn't mean that it's the case...
But I feel as if you are looking for a response, based on the late hour... Someone with more expertise than myself will comment soon For tonight, try to keep her confined.

Try to get some sleep too:hug:

 

[AngelnSnuffy]

I think a vet visit may be imminant, but, how was the bun when you found it? What are the changes? Let us know!

 

[TinysMom]

First of all - welcome to the forum....Autumn has given you some excellent advice - as a former breeder, I'd like to add a few things.

Your bunny looks really small and really young. I didn't see if you mentioned her age or not.

If you don't know anything about the mother and the diet she had - I would refrain from giving her greens and carrots and stuff for a bit. A really young rabbit still has adjusting to do for the digestive system - and the less you stress them out - the better off they are. I find that fruits and vegies may be too much for them until they're about 12 weeks old - IF THEIR MAMA DIDN'T NORMALLY HAVE THEM. Since I don't know about mama - that is why I'm suggesting caution.

From the picture, I honestly feel like your rabbit is too young to be away from mama. That doesn't mean that the rabbit will die - but just...you may need to take things slow and easy.

I'd get her some good pellets asap and some hay too. You might want to "spritz" the hay with a tiny bit of baby apple juice or something - if she doesn't want it at first. I sometimes give my babies a tiny bit of long-cooking oatmeal - like 4-6 flakes per meal...they like the taste and it is pretty neutral as far as their stomach goes. A small container of oatmeal shouldn't be much more than a dollar and will last you for a long time...just make sure it isn't the quick oats.

You may want to add a drop or two of vanilla to the water to entice the baby to drink more too. It also keeps flies away because they don't like the smell of the urine, etc. when vanilla is added to the water. Depending upon the bottle or bowl size - even 1 to 2 drops should be enough. Many times rabbits will drink more water with the vanilla in it.

I find myself wondering if she got injured when your friend held her and may be in pain. A rabbit that is in pain will not eat much - a rabbit that is out of water will also not eat much....so make sure to keep her water bowl filled.

An infirmary mod may recommend something called "Bene-bac" or "Pro-bios" - these are pro biotics that you can get from a feed store for around $5 or so if I remember right. This might help the baby's tummy if it is having any problems adjusting from being away from mama and mama's milk.

Good luck with your baby - keep giving great detailed information like you've been doing - it would help if you could add the baby's age and weight too!

 

[angelh]

NorthernAutumn wrote:

- Pine litter is not advisable, due to chemical reaction with urine. Aspen or Yesterday's news is OK... even shredded newspaper and a bit of hay is OK. I'll change it right away, seeing as how she loves chewing on the pine.

- Iceberg lettuce can give little ones diarrhea... Many folks advise a pellet and hay only diet when they are young. Thanks. I don't give iceberg lettuce.

Questions:
- Any plants within reach? Any carpet available to chew? No. Yes.

Any cloth in reach? Yes. we let her sleep in it, but she doesn't chew that one.

- How much water has she been drinking? Day 4 - less than before. day 5 - I don't know yet, it's only 10am here (russia)

- How old is she? Pet shop people said one and a half months, nearly 2.


My brain is going a few directions:
- Darker yellow urine may be indicating digestive response to change in food and addition of vegetables.
- May also indicate lower water consumption (same as you and I & our urine)
- White rabbit... maybe deaf... thus unresponsive? She was responsive before this, and her ears do move when she hears loud sounds. I do I verify that?

- Young rabbit... perhaps too young... maybe ill. This is my main concern. Any signs I should look out for?

- There has been a food switch, or two More like food reduction, I would say. We give her lettuce and carrots in few, tiny cubes.

- Just changed environments... likely stressed. But she didn't seem a bit stressed on the first few days here... it only started after we thought she was adapting in...


I am not an Infirmary mod, by any means. Just because I mentioned a possibility doesn't mean that it's the case... Thank you very much all the same, for your prompt reply.

But I feel as if you are looking for a response, based on the late hour... Someone with more expertise than myself will comment soon For tonight, try to keep her confined.

Try to get some sleep too:hug: It's morning over here in Russia, but good night to you

 

[angelh]

TinysMom wrote:

First of all - welcome to the forum....Autumn has given you some excellent advice - as a former breeder, I'd like to add a few things. Indeed she has

Your bunny looks really small and really young. I didn't see if you mentioned her age or not. The pet shop people told me she is a month and a half. There was one other similar bunny in her cage when i saw her.

If you don't know anything about the mother and the diet she had - I would refrain from giving her greens and carrots and stuff for a bit. A really young rabbit still has adjusting to do for the digestive system - and the less you stress them out - the better off they are. I find that fruits and vegies may be too much for them until they're about 12 weeks old - IF THEIR MAMA DIDN'T NORMALLY HAVE THEM. Since I don't know about mama - that is why I'm suggesting caution. Ok. I won't give her any vege anymore. I thought they would be good for her - since the mixed seeds thing i got for her weren't really good.

From the picture, I honestly feel like your rabbit is too young to be away from mama. That doesn't mean that the rabbit will die - but just...you may need to take things slow and easy.

I'd get her some good pellets asap and some hay too. You might want to "spritz" the hay with a tiny bit of baby apple juice or something - if she doesn't want it at first. I sometimes give my babies a tiny bit of long-cooking oatmeal - like 4-6 flakes per meal...they like the taste and it is pretty neutral as far as their stomach goes. A small container of oatmeal shouldn't be much more than a dollar and will last you for a long time...just make sure it isn't the quick oats.

You may want to add a drop or two of vanilla to the water to entice the baby to drink more too. It also keeps flies away because they don't like the smell of the urine, etc. when vanilla is added to the water. Depending upon the bottle or bowl size - even 1 to 2 drops should be enough. Many times rabbits will drink more water with the vanilla in it.

I find myself wondering if she got injured when your friend held her and may be in pain. A rabbit that is in pain will not eat much - a rabbit that is out of water will also not eat much....so make sure to keep her water bowl filled. how do i know whether she is injured? I tried to palpate her all over when she was sleeping on my lap. Everything seemed fine to me. Of course, i wouldn't know what to look for, but both her sides seemed symmetrical and everything. She gets enough water, she just doesn't go to the water as much. I'll try the vanilla thing. By the way, i give her boiled tap water - the kind we have over here. I've had kidney stones from the water here (russia).

How do I know if she's in pain? I read that she will grind her teeth loudly but i didn't see that in her.

However, when i picked her up just now, she made a little squeaky sound. Is that pain? She stayed still and looked normal when i was holding her.

My right hand under her tummy, holding her to "sit upright", her paws resting on my finger, and i support her bottom with my left hand. She doesn't struggle a lot when held like that.

An infirmary mod may recommend something called "Bene-bac" or "Pro-bios" - these are pro biotics that you can get from a feed store for around $5 or so if I remember right. This might help the baby's tummy if it is having any problems adjusting from being away from mama and mama's milk. Being in russia, i don't know whether i'll be able to get those.

Good luck with your baby - keep giving great detailed information like you've been doing - it would help if you could add the baby's age and weight too!

 

[angelh]

Thanks for all the advises. Here are some more information about her which I need some help from all.

A while ago, we put her in another box with only hay and water. She was not moving in the box. After that, she had some water, and jumped out from the box. So I held her up, putting her on my lap. But then, like 5 minutes later, I heard her doing some sound, some weird sound that I think it's coming out from her nose, her mouth was closed. Is that a problem? She keep making her head front and backward while the sound continue, just like what we did when burping. Is she burping? I think this morning she had nothing but only water. She keep shaking. I don't know should I call it as shaking or maybe the heart is pumping fast? She's now lying on the bed, with the back leg lying down still behind. She crawled without using her back leg just now. Is she in hurt?

Now that I put her on my lap, she thrown up, with some undigested food which I think is carrot on it. What wrong with her?? :cry1::cry1:

 

[angelh]

 

[angelh]

can someone please reply me?? I thought this subforum was always monitored?? Please help me please.

I went to the pets store today to find pellets and hay for her. Apparently we only have mixed food here, no pure pellets available at all. (i'm in russia) .

No purina no nutriphase no bene-bac no oxbow no nothing. The pets store people told me not to bother going to the vet - they only know about cats and dogs.

Now Piffy is very very weak - she doesn't seem to be able to support her own weight. Her head keeps falling ahead. She doesn't move, doesn't like to be touched. I don't know what to do.

Please help. Please you guys are the only ones who can save my baby bunny please

 

[Pipp]

I'm so sorry but there isn't much that can be done other than keep her warm and still. You can try giving her some warm water with a feeding syringe, but I honestly don't think that will help.

She's far too young to be away from her mother, the mortality rate in this case is extremely high.

The pet shop is at fault, not you, but chances are very high you'll lose her, all you can do is try and keep her comfortable.

Rabbits can't vomit, I don't know what it is.

I'll re-read your post and see if I can think of anything else, but I think its all about keeping her comfortable now.

:cry2

 

[Pipp]

How is she?

sas ray:

 

[peppa and georgie]

Hi i dont think i can help much either, but i had a baby bunny recently who did unfortunately not make it, but was advised to try syringe feeding her baby food, or a mix of water with a little sugar to keep her energy and hydration up.
Are her poops still solid? It might be something hereditary that you wont be able to help. She does look very small, i do hope she recovers. On a positive note years ago i had a smiller sized young bunny who also got ill but was diorrhea and we syringe fed her yoghurt every few hours and she did survive and grew strong. I do so hope she is ok. Sounds like possibly an injury or that she is weak from not eating and drinking enough. Please come back and give us an update, will be thinking of your little bunny x

 

[peppa and georgie]

Oh sorry i forgot to say one of my bunnies used to sort of sneeze sometimes, if she got something wet up her nose. It may be that she has some sort of snuffles and the stuff came out of her nose not her mouth. Although if that is the case i think you would need some antibiotics. xx

 

[anneq]

She looks very very small - I am no expert but I don't think the pet-shop was honest with you about her age (that, or they themselves didn't know or care).
I was also going to suggest Bene-bac.
I can show you a pic of my bunnies that are 6 weeks old to compare:
http://rabbitsonline.net/view_topic.php?id=46905&forum_id=1&jump_to=632670#p632670
(these guys just turned 6 weeks today)



Good luck with your little one - please keep us updated.

 

[kirbyultra]

Good luck to you... I am so glad you posted the situation here. I read your blog and was so alarmed to read Piffy's condition. I hope everything gets better.

 

[tonyshuman]

I'm sorry we didn't respond earlier. This forum is mostly US, so most of us were asleep at the time.

Rabbits very rarely throw up. It's so rare that you can almost say it doesn't ever happen. This really concerns me. I would try to syringe-feed her pellets soaked in water and just plain water. You could also try to feed her puppy milk replacer.

Here, the law is that a bunny must be 8 weeks old before leaving its mom. Piffy could be 6 weeks possibly, but I agree that that may not be the case.

I don't know what's going on here, especially since her fecal output seems normal still. This sounds like an emergency vet situation to me. Young rabbits are prone to digestive disturbances, but they usually go with runny urine or diarrhea, instead of normal poos. They are more prone to these if taken from mom too soon. Is there any chance you can get her to a vet?

 

[angelh]

Update:

Thank you all.

We realised that Piffy didn't pass motion at all and by 1pm, she was weak,no bowel movement, urinated once (that was the last time).

We didn't have a syringe, so while her daddy held her on his lap, i dipped my finger into water and tried to make her "lick" it. She didn't. She couldn't, because she was grinding her teeth rather loudly.

We knew she was in pain, and she had lost a lot of muscle tone. Instead of that crouching position that she normally assumes, she was splayed on the floor, limbs spread to all four directions. (that was sometime after my last post here)

We brought her to the vet. The vet HELD HER BY THE EARS, took a look at her, weighed her (180grams) and told us there was nothing she could do. She said that Piffy probably had a viral infection. I tried to make her consider the diagnosis of Stasis (no bowel movement, no appetite) and she told us that there was really nothing we could do, and that this rabbit was most probably going to die. At least she broke the news to us gently and with compassion on her face.

She gave her "Gamavit"(i think it's russian - some kind of vitamin supplement?), glucose solution, and "Eprokell" for injection. We were to inject her with the solution 2 times a day.

Piffy was awake all the time, grinding her teeth frequently. On the bus on the way home, she actually flopped and lay on her side (she never does that). We thought she was going to die, but she pulled through.

Now we are at home, Piffy seems a bit more energetic. We put in new hay for Piffy, and her water bowl, but she has been refusing everything.

At least she is still with us.

 

[ra7751]

Hi,

I have read quickly over your posts. I deal with baby rabbits all the time so I know all too well what you are experiencing. As others have mentioned....and I agree....this rabbit is too young to be away from it's mother. In a baby rabbit's gut, the pH is fairly neutral when they are babies. As the bacteria that digests the food starts to build, the mother's milk will start to turn acidic and that acidifies the babies' gut until it reaches a pH of about 1-2. This will allow a favorable climate for the beneficial bacteria to grow and stabilize. If something interferes with that process.....being taken from it's mother too early is one....along with being fed cow's milk or other unsuitable food, stress, illness or a number of other things....that can disrupt the population of the beneficial bacteria. One of the functions of beneficial bacteria is to keep the bad stuff under wraps. If we get a die off of the delicate beneficial bacteria, we not only have to deal with the toxins of the decaying bacteria, it also allows harmful bacteria such as Clostridium and E Coli to replace the good bacteria. The end result is a rabbit that becomes lethargic, will start to sway from side to side. As the toxins progress, the rabbit will roll and things continue to go down hill. At this point, the only possibility of saving this rabbit is to aggressively attack the harmful bacteria that is in the gut. See if you can get a vet to give you a drug called Metronidazole (hoping it's available in Russia). Find a horse vet if you can. Rabbits are treated almost identically to a horse. This condition in a rabbit is quite similar to founder in a horse. You can also have a vet try a drug called Toxi-Ban (it's a charcoal based compound that can bind toxins....not something I would usually suggest but this is an unusual emergency and I really feel we are in "Hail Mary" mode at this point). Feel free to PM me directly if you find a vet and need specific drug information. Time is very limited in events like this.....and I mean very limited. To have any chance of a positive resolution, this needs to be done quickly.

For timing purposes should you need to contact me, it is early afternoon in the eastern US. I will be in and out for a couple of hours and then on the road for about three....but I will be online until probably until late night (our time). I'm sure I speak for all of us in hoping we have a positive resolution to this problem.

Randy

 

[angelh]

peppa and georgie wrote:

Hi i dont think i can help much either, but i had a baby bunny recently who did unfortunately not make it, but was advised to try syringe feeding her baby food, or a mix of water with a little sugar to keep her energy and hydration up. Her teeth grinding is preventing us from that. Now that she has had her fluid replacement injection, shall I try again to syringe-feed, or shall I wait and see?
She is not grinding her teeth nonstop, just whenever she's carried, sometimes even when petted. Now we don't even dare to touch her, when our hearts scream to comfort and hold her. This feeling is killing me.

Are her poops still solid? No. She has not pooped a single time all day.

It might be something hereditary that you wont be able to help. She does look very small, i do hope she recovers. On a positive note years ago i had a smiller sized young bunny who also got ill but was diorrhea and we syringe fed her yoghurt every few hours and she did survive and grew strong. What kind of yoghurt? Is it worth trying, since she doesn't even want water for now?

I do so hope she is ok. Sounds like possibly an injury (are there any telltale signs i can look out for?)

or that she is weak from not eating and drinking enough. Please come back and give us an update, will be thinking of your little bunny x

Thank you so much.

 

[angelh]

ra7751 wrote:

Hi,

I have read quickly over your posts. I deal with baby rabbits all the time so I know all too well what you are experiencing. As others have mentioned....and I agree....this rabbit is too young to be away from it's mother. In a baby rabbit's gut, the pH is fairly neutral when they are babies. As the bacteria that digests the food starts to build, the mother's milk will start to turn acidic and that acidifies the babies' gut until it reaches a pH of about 1-2. This will allow a favorable climate for the beneficial bacteria to grow and stabilize. If something interferes with that process.....being taken from it's mother too early is one....along with being fed cow's milk or other unsuitable food, stress, illness or a number of other things....that can disrupt the population of the beneficial bacteria. One of the functions of beneficial bacteria is to keep the bad stuff under wraps. If we get a die off of the delicate beneficial bacteria, we not only have to deal with the toxins of the decaying bacteria, it also allows harmful bacteria such as Clostridium and E Coli to replace the good bacteria. The end result is a rabbit that becomes lethargic, will start to sway from side to side. As the toxins progress, the rabbit will roll and things continue to go down hill. At this point, the only possibility of saving this rabbit is to aggressively attack the harmful bacteria that is in the gut. See if you can get a vet to give you a drug called Metronidazole (hoping it's available in Russia). Find a horse vet if you can. Rabbits are treated almost identically to a horse. This condition in a rabbit is quite similar to founder in a horse. You can also have a vet try a drug called Toxi-Ban (it's a charcoal based compound that can bind toxins....not something I would usually suggest but this is an unusual emergency and I really feel we are in "Hail Mary" mode at this point). Feel free to PM me directly if you find a vet and need specific drug information. Time is very limited in events like this.....and I mean very limited. To have any chance of a positive resolution, this needs to be done quickly.

For timing purposes should you need to contact me, it is early afternoon in the eastern US. I will be in and out for a couple of hours and then on the road for about three....but I will be online until probably until late night (our time). I'm sure I speak for all of us in hoping we have a positive resolution to this problem.

Randy

Thank you. Please check your pm.