SweetSassy
Well-Known Member
Did you mean on the post next to the praying face? I think that might be their name. Sas. My name is April.
Baby Bunny sudden change in mood, appetite, basically everything :( Please help (RESOLVED)
- Thread starter angelh
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SweetSassy
Well-Known Member
Sure. That's ok. You've had alot going on.
peppa and georgie
Well-Known Member
Oh i am so glad piffy is feeling better. That is great news.. Hope to see lots more pics soon xxxx
ra7751
Well-Known Member
Hi,
Just wanted to make a couple of comments regarding some of the posts.
First, pineapple juice (and papaya too) is a controversial treatment. Lab tests are inconclusive. I do usefresh pineapple juice when I am dealing with a stasis situation (and this is most likely not a stasis event). I hand squeeze the juice directly from a fruit. DO NOT use processed juices....canned, bottled, concentrate, etc. as they have added processed sugars.
Using yogurt is an old school idea when it wasn't truly understood how a gut worked.....and especially that of a hind gut fermenter like rabbits. You can't replace the bacteria in the gut....those are specific strains of bacteria (mostly very highly evolved gram positive strains)that can't be found in any yogurt or probiotic. What actually happens is the bacteria in the yogurt of probiotic contains acidophilus. The bacteria that digests the food needs an acidic pH in which to thrive. With baby rabbits, or in rabbits with severe GI events, the pH will crash. The pH in a baby gut is fairly neutral....about 6-7 but in order to support the proper bacteria, it must go acidic...about 1-2. This conversion is provided in the mother's milk as it changes pH as her kits near wean. This will convert the gut. Yogurt would work....except it contains lactose and sugars....and both of them are harmful to the beneficial bacteria in the gut and for that reason, yogurt is not an appropriate treatment for any hind gut fermenter. There are several excellent probiotics available in most countries that contain the necessary components to help support the pH without the risks of lactose and/or sugars. And that is also why sugar water is inapproppriate for hind gut fermenters. Many inexperienced vets misdiagnose the presentations of a bacterial imbalance as hypoglycemia. I had one vet tell a lady to feed a baby rabbit carrots and strawberries (lots of sugar). As the gut crashed and the rabbit started showing the lethargic swaying, he diagnosed hypoglycemia even though the rabbit was being fed far too much sugar. Rabbit died. One of the only times I have been ugly to a vet....suggested he try treating stuffed animals. Processed sugars should never be given to a hind gut fermenter.
This entire case is a prime example of taking a baby animal from it's mother too early. With eastern cottontails (the most common wild rabbit in the US), we see this all too often in rehab. Cottontails wean a lot faster (about 21 days) and a lot more violently than domestics....and that is why many cottontails are lost in rehab and why many rehabbers refuse cottontails. This is something we have learned to deal with much more successfully than we have in past years as we are understanding the dynamics of the rabbit gut....and we see just how harmful some of the old school ideas we have all used really are. I modify my protocols on a continuing basis as we learn more.....and we learn from a clinical view point.....not just by unscientific casual observations.
Couple of things to do some thinking on. Stasis and a bacterial imbalance will many times present almost identical symptoms. It's important for everyone to know the differences....and know your rabbits. Remember that rabbits are creatures of habit. I know how all my rabbits react at feeding time.....and if they don't react close to the same way each time....I am looking for a potential problem. It is always much easier to treat proactively rather than reactively.
And I notice from the last post that things appear to be improving. My suggestion....don't let your guard down quite yet. I have seen this far too often. While I really hope this rabbit is out of the woods...I think it would be prudent to keep a close eye on things......nothing good happens fast with a rabbit. I hope this is the exception to the rule.
Randy
Just wanted to make a couple of comments regarding some of the posts.
First, pineapple juice (and papaya too) is a controversial treatment. Lab tests are inconclusive. I do usefresh pineapple juice when I am dealing with a stasis situation (and this is most likely not a stasis event). I hand squeeze the juice directly from a fruit. DO NOT use processed juices....canned, bottled, concentrate, etc. as they have added processed sugars.
Using yogurt is an old school idea when it wasn't truly understood how a gut worked.....and especially that of a hind gut fermenter like rabbits. You can't replace the bacteria in the gut....those are specific strains of bacteria (mostly very highly evolved gram positive strains)that can't be found in any yogurt or probiotic. What actually happens is the bacteria in the yogurt of probiotic contains acidophilus. The bacteria that digests the food needs an acidic pH in which to thrive. With baby rabbits, or in rabbits with severe GI events, the pH will crash. The pH in a baby gut is fairly neutral....about 6-7 but in order to support the proper bacteria, it must go acidic...about 1-2. This conversion is provided in the mother's milk as it changes pH as her kits near wean. This will convert the gut. Yogurt would work....except it contains lactose and sugars....and both of them are harmful to the beneficial bacteria in the gut and for that reason, yogurt is not an appropriate treatment for any hind gut fermenter. There are several excellent probiotics available in most countries that contain the necessary components to help support the pH without the risks of lactose and/or sugars. And that is also why sugar water is inapproppriate for hind gut fermenters. Many inexperienced vets misdiagnose the presentations of a bacterial imbalance as hypoglycemia. I had one vet tell a lady to feed a baby rabbit carrots and strawberries (lots of sugar). As the gut crashed and the rabbit started showing the lethargic swaying, he diagnosed hypoglycemia even though the rabbit was being fed far too much sugar. Rabbit died. One of the only times I have been ugly to a vet....suggested he try treating stuffed animals. Processed sugars should never be given to a hind gut fermenter.
This entire case is a prime example of taking a baby animal from it's mother too early. With eastern cottontails (the most common wild rabbit in the US), we see this all too often in rehab. Cottontails wean a lot faster (about 21 days) and a lot more violently than domestics....and that is why many cottontails are lost in rehab and why many rehabbers refuse cottontails. This is something we have learned to deal with much more successfully than we have in past years as we are understanding the dynamics of the rabbit gut....and we see just how harmful some of the old school ideas we have all used really are. I modify my protocols on a continuing basis as we learn more.....and we learn from a clinical view point.....not just by unscientific casual observations.
Couple of things to do some thinking on. Stasis and a bacterial imbalance will many times present almost identical symptoms. It's important for everyone to know the differences....and know your rabbits. Remember that rabbits are creatures of habit. I know how all my rabbits react at feeding time.....and if they don't react close to the same way each time....I am looking for a potential problem. It is always much easier to treat proactively rather than reactively.
And I notice from the last post that things appear to be improving. My suggestion....don't let your guard down quite yet. I have seen this far too often. While I really hope this rabbit is out of the woods...I think it would be prudent to keep a close eye on things......nothing good happens fast with a rabbit. I hope this is the exception to the rule.
Randy
I have been keeping a close eye on Piffy, thank you Randy for your concern over this matter.
Please do give me some tips on what other warning signs to look out for. For now, Piffy is acting like the way she did on the first 2 days here.
It would be nice if you could recommend me some useful authoritative materials (not books please, i won't find them here - at least, not in English) to read on nursing a sick baby bunny
Please do give me some tips on what other warning signs to look out for. For now, Piffy is acting like the way she did on the first 2 days here.
It would be nice if you could recommend me some useful authoritative materials (not books please, i won't find them here - at least, not in English) to read on nursing a sick baby bunny
kirbyultra
Well-Known Member
yay! so glad she's looking better. Keep up the good work!
anneq
Well-Known Member
I so happy to hear Piffy is doing better!
Luvr of Wabbits and Polar Bears
Well-Known Member
angelh wrote:
It's ok for Rabbits to sneeze as long as there is no colored discharge.
tonyshuman
Well-Known Member
Whew! I'm so glad it seems like she's through the worst of it. I'll continue to keep my fingers crossed for her. Don't worry about a sneeze or two like Rebecca said. Such a relief!
peppa and georgie
Well-Known Member
Sorry i feel a bit bad as all the things i suggested would not really have helped at all. I was sort of loking for possible home remedies in the absence of being able to get a vet who could help. I am really glad that she seems so much better. Is very usefull to know more about the little bunnys internal workings though. If anyone knows more about abcesses i would be really interested as in the past lots of my bunnies have suffered really badly and many times vets have been unable to help. My last bunny bumble died as an abcess had spread too far internally. Sometimes i have found that the more the abcess is messed about with the more it spreads, and once or twice i have seen one clear up by itself when i have left it alone.... Does anyone know more, i was wondering if Randy might have some inside info so to speak... xx
Don't feel bad ; you're new to the forum and were trying to help ; the longer you are here the more you will learn.
Yes, Randy has taught us a lot and he HAStaught us a very effective treatment for abscsses which we can talk about in a another thread.
right now we need to have this thread availabe for the little bunny Piffy
you can start a new thread if you want
Maureen
Yes, Randy has taught us a lot and he HAStaught us a very effective treatment for abscsses which we can talk about in a another thread.
right now we need to have this thread availabe for the little bunny Piffy
you can start a new thread if you want
Maureen
peppa and georgie
Well-Known Member
Ok cool thanks, i will try start a new thread x
It's so great that Piffy is feeling so much better
AngelH, I can tell you really love her and you've done everything you could to help her recovery. Everyone who helped and gave advice are superstars!
It's so touching when animals make full recoveries with the help of caring people. Keep an eye on Piffy but I hope that she's through the worst.
:hearts:
AngelH, I can tell you really love her and you've done everything you could to help her recovery. Everyone who helped and gave advice are superstars!
It's so touching when animals make full recoveries with the help of caring people. Keep an eye on Piffy but I hope that she's through the worst.
:hearts:
Hewwo Evewybodie! It's me Piffy again. I think i don't like my mummies and daddies so much now they don't kiss me anymore mummies says that's coz she doesn't want to give me "bad-TV-ria". I've heard kids talk about bad TV. They don't get it from mummie and daddie kisses, they get those fwom the big black box! I'm confused.
And when they DO hold me, daddie pokes a big owwie needle on my back i don't like that. But daddie says that's for me to get better.:cry1: I hope he won't do that anymore. Daddie says that if i dwink a lot and keep myself "high-way-ted" he won't poke me with the Owwie needle.
(uh oh mummie's here. I must tell you what she wants me to say)
*ehem* I am feeling even better today I am eating drinking hopping and pooping ok We are vewy gwapefwut for your concern bai bai. (Mummie are we giving them gwapefwuts to eat?)
No Piffy, it's "grateful". Means very very thankful. Now sweetie, isn't there SOMETHING else you're supposed to tell them?
*shuffle shuffle* ok and i've been naughty and twying to get out of my cage but i can't get out at all i'm sowwy i pwomise to stay in my cage and be good till mummie and daddie are sure i am totally fine.
bai bai! Mummie told me to give all of you e-kisses. :bunnyhug:
Dear all
PIffy seems to really be making progress :biggrin2: I think might not be needing this thread anymore! :highfive:
Thanks for everything and to Peppa n Georgie, your concern was as much appreciated as those informative advises given by knowledgable members like Randy!! so don't worry about it! *hugs*
And here's a big big e-hug from Piffy's 2 mums and 2 dads to all of you, and do follow Piffy's updates on her blog
By the way, is there any way Mods could move this whole thread to merge with Piffy's blog? It would be nice to keep a record. If it's not possible then i'll just paste all the updates over there.
Thanks
And when they DO hold me, daddie pokes a big owwie needle on my back i don't like that. But daddie says that's for me to get better.:cry1: I hope he won't do that anymore. Daddie says that if i dwink a lot and keep myself "high-way-ted" he won't poke me with the Owwie needle.
(uh oh mummie's here. I must tell you what she wants me to say)
*ehem* I am feeling even better today I am eating drinking hopping and pooping ok We are vewy gwapefwut for your concern bai bai.
(Mummie are we giving them gwapefwuts to eat?)No Piffy, it's "grateful". Means very very thankful. Now sweetie, isn't there SOMETHING else you're supposed to tell them?
*shuffle shuffle* ok and i've been naughty and twying to get out of my cage but i can't get out at all i'm sowwy i pwomise to stay in my cage and be good till mummie and daddie are sure i am totally fine.
bai bai! Mummie told me to give all of you e-kisses. :bunnyhug:
Dear all
PIffy seems to really be making progress :biggrin2: I think might not be needing this thread anymore! :highfive:
Thanks for everything and to Peppa n Georgie, your concern was as much appreciated as those informative advises given by knowledgable members like Randy!! so don't worry about it! *hugs*
And here's a big big e-hug from Piffy's 2 mums and 2 dads to all of you, and do follow Piffy's updates on her blog
By the way, is there any way Mods could move this whole thread to merge with Piffy's blog? It would be nice to keep a record. If it's not possible then i'll just paste all the updates over there.
Thanks
You can put a link to this thread in your blog. Follow the instructions here
http://www.rabbitsonline.net/view_topic.php?id=44214&forum_id=66
http://www.rabbitsonline.net/view_topic.php?id=44214&forum_id=66
BlueCamasRabbitry
Well-Known Member
angelh wrote:
Uhmm... I think any vet would refuse to give a rabbit an enema, as no vets ever do that... At least I've never heard of an animal ever getting an enema for any reason.
Emily
Uhmm... I think any vet would refuse to give a rabbit an enema, as no vets ever do that... At least I've never heard of an animal ever getting an enema for any reason.
Emily
irishbunny
Well-Known Member
Aww Piffy is a gorgeus little bunny and so glad to have an owner like you! So many people would think 'it's just a rabbit' and not worth the time and money, I hope Piffy keeps recovering and lives a long and happy life with you!
I'm worried about Piffy again. She is still acting normal, but I found a patch of yellow thick mucous liquid in her cage. I just picked her up and saw that her bottom was dirty - about 6 pieces of feces (normal sized round solid type, but a bit more moist than usual) stuck to her fur. Usually they fall off.
I am very concerned. We don't seem to be able to find probiotics here for her. Appetite normal, activity normal, drinking, feces normal. I was out, so I didn't see from where the yellow mucous patch came out.
Please advice.
I am very concerned. We don't seem to be able to find probiotics here for her. Appetite normal, activity normal, drinking, feces normal. I was out, so I didn't see from where the yellow mucous patch came out.
Please advice.
