Babies with toes bitten off

[mitchellst]

I have a doe, Stripey, who had six kits 3 weeks ago. They were all doing well until today, when I noticed some bloody spots on the floor of her nesting box. I checked them all and two of them had toes missing (bitten off) of their hind feet. Stripey was very nervous; stamping and hiding from me. Does anyone have any ideas what could have happened?

Here's my theories:
1. Stripey herself bit their toes off. But why only the hind feet? In my experience with does and kits, usually the doe accidentally tramples newborns or, with extremely nervous does, kills and eats/mutilates the kits. These are older, mobile kits. Could she be trying to wean them? Has anyone else ever had a doe that attacked 3-week-old kits?

2. A predator got into the cage (should insert here that we live in southern India, and the rabbits are kept in fully enclosed, raised wire cages, off the ground). Rats seem most likely, but I checked the wire and there were no holes, so I don't know how the rat could have gotten inside. Snakes are also plentiful, but surely a snake would have swallowed the kit whole, not nibbled off toes. Mice? Mongoose? I think mongoose are too big to get in the cage.

About a week ago we had another incident with Stripey where she was covered with blood and scratches on her neck and shoulders one morning. We thought that she had gotten caught in the wire mesh which had come loose at the bottom of one wall of her cage - actually some workmen sabotaged it, but that's another saga. At any rate, I doctored the spots she couldn't lick (under her neck) with antibiotic cream and she is recovering fine. I'm wondering now, though, if something could have tried to attack her.

3. The kits did it to themselves. Why? They are not overcrowded and they have free-choice water and food.

Going to a vet is not an option here in India, as there are none with experience in rabbits. The bleeding had stopped so I left the area alone; I'll keep an eye on it and hope that no infection develops.

Has anyone else ever had this happen? Please throw out any ideas you might have.

Thanks,
Teresa

 

[aurora369]

Poor little babies. I have not experienced this before with any litters.

I know that most times when "over grooming" occurs, it is when the babies are first born.

Can you get some betadine? My vet swears by that stuff. Safe if ingested, kills all bacteria, and doesn't sting when applied. I bought a bottle at the people pharmacy and it was very cheap.

Put some on the wounds a couple times a day to prevent infection. Betadine is also very good at penetrating the wound below the skin to help keep the area clean and bacteria free.

I would think that the babies will be just fine with a few missing toes.

I have had experiences with rats before. The place where I rescued some buns from had a rat infestation. The cages had small holes, maybe 1/2", but several times when checking in on the buns I saw rats scurrying out of the cages when the lights turned on. They managed to squeeze through the small holes, and where eating all the bunnies food.

--Dawn

So I do think it could be possible for rats to squeeze through very small holes. I have also heard stories of rats attacking rabbits and trying to kill them or injure them. I would monitor carefully for rats.

 

[paul2641]

aurora369 wrote:

Poor little babies. I have not experienced this before with any litters.

I know that most times when "over grooming" occurs, it is when the babies are first born.

Can you get some betadine? My vet swears by that stuff. Safe if ingested, kills all bacteria, and doesn't sting when applied. I bought a bottle at the people pharmacy and it was very cheap.

Put some on the wounds a couple times a day to prevent infection. Betadine is also very good at penetrating the wound below the skin to help keep the area clean and bacteria free.

I would think that the babies will be just fine with a few missing toes.

I have had experiences with rats before. The place where I rescued some buns from had a rat infestation. The cages had small holes, maybe 1/2", but several times when checking in on the buns I saw rats scurrying out of the cages when the lights turned on. They managed to squeeze through the small holes, and where eating all the bunnies food.

--Dawn

So I do think it could be possible for rats to squeeze through very small holes. I have also heard stories of rats attacking rabbits and trying to kill them or injure them. I would monitor carefully for rats.

I read somewhere that rats can crush there whole body to fit into a certain spot like crush there ribs and spine to fit through the little wired cage you have your rabbit/kits in maybe you should transfur your rabbit and kits into a wooden hutch so there are no holes in it for rats to fit through.

 

[mitchellst]

Hmmmm. I checked again this evening and there were more baby's toes chewed or missing. I will move them into the laundry room where there are no rats, and we shall see.

Thanks,
Teresa

 

[gentle giants]

It definately sounds to me like you have some kind of predator attacking them, especially since the doe was nervous. If it is just their toes being bitten off, it may be a larger animal that is just grabbing what it can reach through the wire. I have heard of raccoons doing that over here in the States. If at all possible, I would move them all indoors permanently, or at the very leastuntil the predator is identified and taken care of.

 

[tonyshuman]

I don't know much about the local predators, but anything from rats (as mentioned) to unleashed dogs could get their toes. Raccoons, possums, monkeys (?), mongooses, anything. I'm pretty sure rats can get through any hole their head can fit through--they have cartilage in their joints instead of bone like most rodents. It would be very rare for a mom to attack babies that old.

Betadine is good as well as the antibiotic ointment. I would use the betadine first, and then put the antibiotic ointment on top (if you have both). Make sure that the antibiotic ointment doesn't have any painkillers in it--here we have neosporin and neosporin plus pain relief. Painkillers added to neosporin plus can be toxic if injested by the bunny.

Good luck!

 

[DyemondRabbitry]

I know this sounds absolutely horrible and gross- but rats. I had this issue in my old barn when I figured out that rats had gotten into where the chicken dug out under the barn and it actually came up through the floorboards of my rabbitry and took the toes off of my babies that were just coming out of the box!! This really sounds so gross but rats are predators and they see baby bunnies as food- so if they figure out they can get them they come back! Needless to say, we actually burned down that barn because I didn't think I could ever get underneath were they had to have been living!

*shudders*

 

[lemon]

I am pretty sure rats would attack any little animal. we have chicks once a year and if they are not in a hard wooden box, rats will come and drag them into the wall/floor.

(Thats really sad)

 

[DyemondRabbitry]

Yep- they are horrible little creatures. Hopefully I'll never have to see that again. At my parents we had a dairy farm plus a pheasantry so in the spring we'd have about 5,000 chicks- and they are MESSY! You can try to keep the litter clean but they always have to spread the food out, get it everwhere and attract rats! Of course, we have cats but they would never kill rats, you use rat poison but it doesn't seem to get them... our best bet was actually our border collies!

Anyhow- now I have them in a building with a cement floor and, of course, don't live with my parents so we don't have to worry about the chicks anymore...

No matter how hard you try there will always be something..I swear..

This probably makes a lot of people think my rabbitry was gross--wish I had pictures to prove I really DO keep it very, very clean...

 

[gentle giants]

My husband has seen a really bad rat infestation too. He and I both used to work at Lincoln Log Cabin (it's where we met) and in the approximatly 8' x8' chicken coop there was a big wooden nestbox. They needed to clean out the nestbox, so they sent a couple of the volunteer kids in to drag it out. The next thing they heard was screaming...Hubby said this Biblical black wave of rats came pouring out, hundreds of them from this little coop. The nasty critters had dug tunnels in under that big nestbox and had done what rats do-multiplied.

 

[mitchellst]

Thanks so much for the input. I feel sure it is a predator - but guess what, the staff (remember, India = household staff) tell me it is the crows! This is entirely possible as the crows here are extremely aggressive and large. They regularly steal food from my children's hands if we eat outside. So, we are tieing the dog under the rabbit cage to keep the crows and/or rats away - no fears she will hurt the rabbits as she is too short to reach them.
Never a dull day here!
Thanks again,
Teresa

 

[MyLOVEABLES!!]

wow thats very sad..
how do you think the baby bunnies are gonna cope?

i hope you're lil guard dog does it's job properly


x

 

[DyemondRabbitry]

I hate to just say "get a cat" but we have all manx cats and my boy has probably got to be the best rodent deterent we've ever had! I haven't seen a mouse since he got big enough to kill 'em! Or even at that, he tries to get the birdies at our feeder... bad kitty.

 

[bunnybunbunb]

DyemondRabbitry wrote:

I hate to just say "get a cat" but we have all manx cats and my boy has probably got to be the best rodent deterent we've ever had! I haven't seen a mouse since he got big enough to kill 'em! Or even at that, he tries to get the birdies at our feeder... bad kitty.

We have not had mice since we got cats 10 years ago however all but two of our current cats can not hunt so I believe word just got around to the mice to stay away. Insted of dead mice laying everywhere of the summer it is dead ground moles, turkeytails,squirrelpelts and deer legs:twitch:I sure hope something else kills the deers, if not I am scared! Summer is not apleasent time.

 

[mitchellst]

The dog is working out good. She keeps the crows and/or rats away. In the US we had barn cats that kept the rats down, but here the street dogs eat the cats so it isn't safe for cats to be outside. Even our dog (rescued from the street as a pup) will try to kill the cats if they get out.

 

[mitchellst]

I should add that there are a LOT of street dogs. Packs everywhere.

What we really need is a rat snake - they eat their weight in rats every day, I'm told - but with all the other poisonous snakes around, we have a no-snake policy. Besides, the rat snake would definitely go after the baby bunnies too.