Aggressive new bunny

[Eve]

Hi everyone!

I took my bunny Rodney to the vet to get the remaining staples takenout after his neuter on the weekend. There was a notice on the bulletinboard about a bunny 'free to good home', and I couldn't help myself butto contact the owners.

...So here I am with a new addition to the family...only she isn't quite what I had expected onder:

Theowners were getting rid of her becausethey hadbought the rabbit as a pet fortheir 8 year old son, anddidn't want to keep it anymore because itwas attackinghim. As far as I know, the rabbit is female, and looks to beeither a dwarf or mini lop. I am not sure how oldshe is, butshe looks fairly young asshe is muchsmaller thanRodney was at 8 weeks of age.

Shelooks like the cutest tiniest ball of fur, but I had noidea just how aggressive she was!Everytime I reach into hercage to give her water or food she lunges at my hands and digs herteeth in repeatedly!! She had bit my thumb so deeply it was bleedingfor ages. I am completely petrified of cleaning her cage ordoing anything near her as she bites me.

Should Ibe leaving her alone and giving her space or shouldItry to be affectionate towards her (whist wearing gloves)?

Also, the boy had been feeding her hay,bread and one giantcarrot a day :shock:. She has had very soft stools from the day I gother, andis making an enourmous amount of excesscecals. I am assuming I should be slowly removing the carrotsand bread from her diet and should start feeding her pellets. Do youhave any suggestions as to how else I can help with her upset tummy?Should I take her to the vet?

Thanks for taking the time to read this, I would really appreciate any advice.

 

[naturestee]

Congrats on the new bunny! What is her name? And when do we get pictures?

Is she aggressive outside of the cage? I'm guessing thatshe's probably defending her cage against you. She feels likeyou are taking over the only territory that is hers and depending onhow she was treated at her last home she may be afraid that you'll hurther. All my girls have been cage aggressive to some extent(although not drawing blood) and I've found that the best way to handleit is to let them out of the cage before I start doing anycleaning/adding hay/whatever. If you need to, build a ramp toher cage door or use treats to lure her into a carrier if her cage isnot on the floor. This thread from Bunny 101 should help you,too.

http://www.rabbitsonline.net/view_topic.php?id=12319&forum_id=17

She needs to feel more comfortable around you, so try sitting or layingon the floor and letting her come near you as she wishes. Youcan put toys and interesting stuff like newspaper near you to encourageher. If she seems confident, then try to pet her.

As far as her diet, take the carrots and bread awayimmediately. Make sure she's eating lots of hay.You can start feeding her small amounts of pellets and increase themslowly. If you don't see improvements soon, then call yourvet. She may need an appointment or he may just need a fecalsample to test for bacterial infection or worms. But itsounds like a diet problem to me, and a vet won't be able to help muchunless he thinks probiotics would help.

 

[Eve]

Thank you so much Naturestee! Youradvice and the links were very helpful, I am still reading my waythrough all of them.

Her previous owners called her Jess but I think I will change her name.I was thinking Layla would be a nice name ( I love the Eric Claptonsong), but I'm still undecided. Maybe you can help mechoose anamewhen I have a picture of her. I will take some photos onthe weekend.

I put her in a playpen with lots of toys yesterday, but she is stillaggressive outside of the cage. She is extremely confident. She walksright up to me and starts nipping at my hands. :?

I've also taken away the bread and carrots as you said, and put amountain of hay in her cage. She's been lying in it and nibbling it formost of the day. I gave her a small amount of pellets but she doesn'tlook too keen on them.

Luckily Rodney doesn't seem to be too bothered about sharing his room.He occasionally stands on his hind legs to get a good look in her cage,and they sniff eachother for a bit, but then go back to doing their ownthing.

 

[nose_twitch]

Awww, bless your heart for rescuing this bunny. I'm sure she will warm up to you in time. Best wishes.

 

[rabbitgirl]

Ironically, this sounds just like a rescue Ihad, oh, years and years ago. She'd been neglected and had pretty muchthe same diet as yours, except substitute piles of wilted green grassfor the hay. She was pretty filthy, and not knowing when her food wascoming--or if it was enough--made her so frantic sheeventuallybegan to attack anyone she even suspected wastrying to take her food or invade her space. Food and relatedaggression issues remained a problem her whole life, but I absolutelyadored her. I learned to respect her space, and she learned to respectme. She was very loving, emotional,and very insecure.

Growing youngsters--when she's adjusted--need unlimited pellets andhay. A constant supply of food when she needs it takes away the panicresponse when you open the door. Also, a bribe of dried whole wheatbread, about a 1-in. chunk, works wonders on an aggressive doe. Youopen the door, stuff it in her mouth, and quietly remove the food forrefilling whilst she is contentedly munching.

She must be older than 8 wks. if she's showing cage aggression?? I'veonly seen it in post-puberty does..... The key with the biting is notto scare her by your reaction--don't hit or anything--but give ahigh-pitched squeal of pain and put your hand on her head and gentlypush it to the floor and hold it (very lightly) while saying "no". Thenlet up and act like nothing happened.

If you can get her to come out of the cage while you are cleaning orfeeding, that would be good. Many rabbits HATE hands coming in there atthem (predators).

While my doe never turned into Miss Docility, she did learn to love mea lot. She always bit when picked up, though, because she was verylarge and was afraid of falling--so she panicked. She would lungehalfheartedly at me when I took her food but I learned not to be afraidof that. After awhile, she just dove into the food instead of me.

Also, after the first awful year, behavioral issues often settle downconsiderably. Just be firm and patient and think of her as anangst-ridden teenager.This too shall pass!

My Palomino buck, Bub, went through an attacking biting scratchingphase for a couple months when he was going through puberty. He's Mr.Congeniality now.

Good luck!

Rose

A funny story about her biting, though--when she was in the rabbit run,she discovered that it was really funny to chase me, nipping at myankles, to hear me squeal. I dove over the fence to get away, bruisedor crackedmy ribs, and wore a body wrap from chest to waistfor a week. She thought it was the best game ever!

 

[rabbitgirl]

Eve wrote:

I put her in a playpen with lots of toys yesterday, but she is stillaggressive outside of the cage. She is extremely confident. She walksright up to me and starts nipping at my hands. :?

That's excellent. Baby stuff! That demanding mouthy stage often occursbetween three and four months, and goes away. It's usuallynottrauma-induced, it's just "I want something NOW!" or "I'm doing thisBECAUSEI CAN! I remember Bub coming up, jumping on my lap,and taking chomps out of my belly. Oh, the shrieks of pain!:growl:

Rose

 

[Eve]

Thank you nose_twitch ! I really do hope she grows to like me eventually.

And thank you very much for the advice and for tellingmeabout your rescued bunny rabbitgirl, IREALLYappreciate it . It made me feel so much better that I'm not the onlyone with this bunny problem. And I'm sorry to hear about the accidentyou had whilst trying to get away fromher nipping, thatsounded awful!

Layla was filthy when I got her too,shehad poostuck all over her legs and tummy and herlegs were wet withurine. She smelt awful. I had to get my boyfriend and my mum to holdher while I cleaned it off, I feltso bad as that must havebeen so stressful for her. She still doesn't look completely cleanbecause her fur is partially white.

I am putting her in the playpen in another room whenever I do anythingto her cage now, and she bites when Ipick her up so I'm usinga carrier to transport her instead. I was just wondering, if my otherbunny Rodney is locked in his condo, is it ok for me to let her runaround my room while I clean her cage? I ask this because my room isRodeny's territory, and I don't want to freak him out by lettinganother bunny explore his land, while he watches from his cage (whichis usually always open).This would just be a lot easier forme as when she's in another room I need someone else to supervise her.But if this is not a good thing to do in terms of Rodney's feelingsthen I'll avoid it.

Also, aquestion about her diet, would it be a good idea toget some vitamin drops to put in her water or would they not benefither much?

I've found she has quite a liking for seagrass mats. I made her atunnel using one and she lies in it on her side whilst munching away onit. I'm happy she looks a bit more relaxed today, because up until nowshe hadbeen hunched in a corner for most of the time.

I'll try to post some pictures of her tomorrow :bunnydance:

 

[cheryl]

Eve,that was a lovely thing to do to take thatbunny into your home and your life,im sure she will be so much betteroff with you,i have not had any experience at all with an aggressivebunny,all mine are just placid little buns.

What would she do if you just sat on the floor and let her roam aroundyou?,dont touch her or anything just let her check you out,do you thinkshe would come up and bite you?is she aggressive only in her cage?orwhen she is out of it as well?

maybe she just didnt like the way she was handled at her previoushome,maybe the little boy used to just pull her out of her cage,and shedidnt like it,so she is just associating this behaviour with you now.



Anyway,i hope in time she will come to learn tolove and trust you,it just may take a bit of time.Have you given her a name yet?



good luck with the little girl bunny,i hope she will warm up to you in the end



cheryl

 

[rabbitgirl]

Eve wrote:

I am putting her in the playpen in another room whenever I do anythingto her cage now, and she bites when Ipick her up so I'm usinga carrier to transport her instead. I was just wondering, if my otherbunny Rodney is locked in his condo, is it ok for me to let her runaround my room while I clean her cage? I ask this because my room isRodeny's territory, and I don't want to freak him out by lettinganother bunny explore his land, while he watches from his cage (whichis usually always open).This would just be a lot easier forme as when she's in another room I need someone else to supervise her.But if this is not a good thing to do in terms of Rodney's feelingsthen I'll avoid it.

I have not experienced problems when letting a female run in a male'sterritory, or vice versa. Male/male and female/female.....that's adifferent story! They seem tog et more jealous if they smell traces ofanother rabbit of the same sex. Bub likes to follow my little Hollandlop doe's scent trail all around the run. "Oooo, woman was here, andthen here, and then here....where did she go????"

He'll most likely just run around and chin everything all overagain.....or poop, or pee. That's your biggest risk, and it just meansa bit of cleanup!

Rose

 

[Eve]

Hi Cheryl! Thank you . And yes I've decided on a name, I called her Layla.

I let her run around Rodney's room today (thanks for the advice aboutthat rabbit girl). When she was running around she would randomlybinky, and then stop and thump her foot. She did this quite a number oftimes, so I was a bit confused as to whether she was happy or upset.

Whenever she came up to me she went straight to bite my hands. I triedgently pushing her head down and saying no whenever she did it, butafter a few seconds she went back to doing it. It kind of looked likeshe very much wanted to eat my fingers :?.

Here are two pictures of her in her cage.

Do you think she is a Dwarf Lop or a Mini Lop? She is much smaller thanmy bun Rodney who is a dwarf lop, so I thought she might be a mini. Buther ears are very long, I thought mini lops had short ears, so I'm notsure.

 

[cheryl]

so she is that mean biting machine,nooooooway,she looks to adorable to be like that,she is soooo pretty,i lovethe name you gave her,a pretty name for a pretty girl,i hope in timeshe will stop her biting,and learn to trust you,maybe with a bit oftime and patience you two may come to some sort of agreement with eachother.

hehehe,ilove that picture of her licking her wooden toy,that is so cute

but she is a very pretty bunny



cheryl

 

[naturestee]

Minis are actually bigger than dwarf lops, so she's probably a dwarf. She looks very young. How old is she?

Could you try wearing gloves that are smeared in something that tastes bad? Like bitter apple or soap?

This could take some time as she's obviously learned to hate hands, thepoor thing. I bet she'll be a sweetheart once she learns thatyour hands aren't going to hurt her.

 

[Spring]

Don't know my lops, but could she be a holland lop (Or is that the same as one of the lops you posted?)?

First off, I thank you for rescuing the little girl! Who knows what could have happend if someone else had adopted her:shock:.

The little boy probably mishandled her improperly or handled her tooroughly. Or maybe when she bit the boy hit her? Try laying on the floorand have your hands hidden. I did this the first few days I got mylionhead and she now hops all over me and climbs on my back and runsover my feet.

Try just opening her cage door and seeing what she does. You could alsoput a treat in the palm of your hands and hold it by the door and justkeep doing this so she relates treats to hands, not hands to somethingbad?

Hope she improves and gets a bit more friendly! Very adorable bunny!

 

[rabbitgirl]

naturestee wrote:

This could take some time as she's obviously learned to hatehands, the poor thing. I bet she'll be a sweetheart once shelearns that your hands aren't going to hurt her.

It almost sounds like she LIKES hands.....a little too much.....

My Pandemonium, every morning, bites my sleeve repeatedly. She's alwaysbeen mouthy, and I think it's either dominance or aggressive grooming.She never bites bare skin, though. Youngsters tend to bite harder ifit's a "love nip" than adults will. Most rabbits will not approach youwhile running loose unless they like you, so even if she'sgiving you negative attention it's still most likely a goodthing.The attack bites of cage-aggression and therunning-up-to-you chompsare actually prettydifferent--totally different emotional states that prompt it.

Fear-induced biters cower in a corner and lunge and growl whenapproached. Sometimes they tremble, and are very wary in general."Alpha" biters, on the other hand, are extremely confident and willapproach you repeatedly to bite you for no apparent reason, althoughwithout growling or lunging. Just a sharp and sudden CHOMP! Alphabiters tend to be outgoing, demanding, defiant and aggressive, but veryemotionally responsive (they like attention of any sort). Think of astrong-willed toddler who pushes the limits just to get a reaction.

I like alpha buns. They are engaging little things when they settledown a bit--very colorful. Pandemonium, an alpha female from day 1,gets so mad if I don't open the door fast enough that she sinks herteeth into the wood in frustration when it finally does open. Then sheneeds a head rub to make up for the trauma.

Overall, I think the signs are good. You're just getting used to each other. Time will tell, anyway.

Rose

 

[Eve]

Cheryl - Thank you! She is licking one of those salt wheels in that photo. She seems to like them a lot.

And I was really surprised at her behaviour when I got her too, she isso tiny and adorable. I though she was the sweetest little thing,couldn't image why someone would want to get rid of her...until shesunk her whole front teeth into my thumb. I know it's not her faultthough, I love her very much.

Naturestee - I've been a bit confused about the differencesbetween mini lops, holland lops and dwarf lops on the forum becausehere in Australia (as far as I know) mini lops are what we call thesmallest lop breed, and dwarf lops (like my bun Rodney) are what wecall themedium sized ones.

I'm not sure exactly how old she is.Her previous owners hadher for over two weeks, and theygot her from a breeder.

Andthank you for your suggestion to smear my gloves with something that tastes bad, I will definately try that.

Spring - Thank you! She doesn't bite me anywhere else when myhands are hidden, so I'm pretty happy only my hands and not the wholeof me is a problem. And I've tried giving her treats so she relatesthem to hands, like you said. She snatches the treat away and runs offto eat it somewhere else. I will keep trying that so maybe she will beless scared of me after some time.

rabbitgirl - Thanks for the advice! Your bun Pandemonium soundslike quite a character! I'm glad thatLayla approaching me isa good sign.Based on what you've told me she does sound a lotlike an alpha bun.I really don't mind her nipping me forattention, it's only that after one or two nipsshe tries tostick her entire teeth in. Hopefully if Istick tothe advice you've all given me (which I'm extremely gratefulfor!)she will settle down a bit over time.

Thank you for all of your replies

 

[Eve]

Just a quick update on Layla :

Her poops are no longer soft and she isn't making the excess cecalsanymore, which I am really happy about. Thanks for the diet tips!

She is still biting me all the time, but when I make a high pitchednoise to let her know she's hurting me, she stops and gives my hand afew licks. But then she goes ahead and bites me again after a fewseconds :disgust:. At least Ifeel like I amgettingsomewhere though, hopefully in time she will learn not to bitemeas much.

I am very proud of Rodney for being such a gentlemanaroundLayla. I have had to lock him in his condo for a few hours a day, sothat Layla can have some time to run around in my room. I watch themvery closely to make sure that there is no biting going on through thecage bars.

Layla tries to poke her head in and sniff Rodney, and thankfully hejust lies there and watches her calmly. He looks very relaxed andsometimes bunny flops infront of her, so I am assuming he doesn't mindher so much. I was so worried he would be upset with another bunny inmy room, but he hasn't shown any signs of aggression towards her sofar. When she is locked in her cage on my desk,Rodneyjumpson top of the laundry basket and justsits there watching her.

Because Layla is soyoung and bouncy, has quite an attitude,and bites, I thought that I would have to keep her seperate from Rodneybecause they are total opposites.But maybe when she grows upa bit there is a chance that they could get along? If that doesn't workout then I'll keep searching for a bunny girlfriend for him from ashelter. My boyfriend and I are planning on buying a house next year,so there will be plently of room to extend my bunny family. I ambecoming addicted to these beautiful creatures.

 

[Spring]

Glad her poop problem is better! Also good that Rodney doesn't seem to mind.

My cousin has a rabbit that is a total mess around people, bitinglunging growling, but around other rabbits isn't as aggresive. I'vealso read about rabbits who are little angels around their owners butadding another bunny to the question becomes little territorial things.

I wish I could extend my bunny family too.. I swear if I didn't have school I'd probably have triple bunnies!

 

[Elf Mommy]

What a GREAT story! I can't wait to read what happens next with Layla!

 

[Eve]

Thank you Spring and Elf Mommy!

I hope that Layla doesn't bite Rodney whenthey eventuallymeet. He is such a quiet little guy compared to Layla, and even thoughshe is tiny I get the feeling she might bully him.

Just a quick question: Layla looks young so I know I should wait tillshe grows up and matures a bit before I try to properly introduce herand Rodney. How long would you recommend I wait to do this?

Also,since rabbits are fussy about their companions, I feelreally awful that I have bought another bunny home to live in Rodney'sroom, without him having the chance to choose hispreferedcompanion. I had been searching for a small rabbit at my localshelters, but this came up unexpectedly and Rodney had no say in thesituation. Are there any forum members who have got a second bunny,without consulting their first bunny as to whether they will like thenew one, and had sucess in bonding them?

 

[bunnybunchof4]

Congrats on your new addition, so sorry to hearthat she's being aggressive though! I think the others have given someexcellent suggestions. I would also let her out of her cage beforecleaning ect... (if anything just to save your hands!)

Oreo is "food" and cage aggressive. He will attack the cup I have hispellets in way before I can get it to his food bowl. Drives me batty,as he's knocked the pellets everywhere more times then I can count! Sowhat I ended up doing is that I bought a large long funnel. And I putthe funnel in his bowl and pour the pellets in to the funnel. He doestry to go after the funnel at first, but at least it isn't near any ofmy fingers! LOL And it doesn't go everywhere. He's as sweet as can beotherwise, he's just trying to defend his food and home. Doesn'trealize that I'm trying to give him these things not take them! hehe


On the other hand I knew someone who bought a baby bunny at a pet storeand she was very aggressive. She couldn't go near it without it boxingat her and biting. She took it to the vet and guess what it had? EARMITES!! She was in pain, that's why she was acting out. Once she wastreated she acted much better (not perfect, did have some cage issues),wasn't attacking over everything.

I also agree about the diet. I would take away the bread and carrotsright away and get them on a good pellet and hay. This alone mightimprove her attitude getting a proper diet. Goodness!

Aggressive bunnies can take some work, and sometimes it's impossible tostop them from beign that way completely. Sometimes you have to findways to "work" around it! Good luck!