Advice for a new bunny mom please! (smushy poo)

[Orchid]

This past Tuesday I brought home Simon. He is a small guy. Weighing in at 1lb 3/4oz.
He is a mix of rex, lion head, mini lop.
Since he came into our home he has had purina rabbit chow, Alfafa Hay and Timothy Hay, from Oxbow.
Wednesday I took him to the vet to make sure he was in good health and he did indeed get a clean bill. She went over what to feed and how often, neutering etc.

Yesterday I started noticing some smushy poo...was on his butt a bit. I cleaned him up and saw nothing else.
I had given him a little bit of mustard greens and half a teeny carrot yesterday evening.

Oddly enough he does not seem to sleep much, or at least not while I am awake.
He is very playful, does not like being alone and will come running for you when he hears or sees you coming.
His cage is left mostly open while I am near - which is most of the time, and he has an open area (safe) to run and play in the living room.

Last night I did make some changes to his cage, to make is a bit more comfy and safe. I do believe this stressed him out some. That was at about 11pm last night.
I added an untreated piece of wood for a ramp to the ledge in his cage. A new matt to sit on as we use the neat idea cubes and his paws are so small I don't want them falling through and hurting himself.

This morning I noticed again smushy poo that has a horrible smell.
I took his temp - came out at 100.5...from what I read this is fine. Anything 104. and above would be an issue.
I did call the vet and she said no treats today and see if it stops. If it does we know what the problem is.
So why am I posting...I am worried as sin and I do not know much about bunnies.
He is still having large smuchy poo...say about the size of half a tootsie roll, the small ones. He has access to his water, pellets and hay...nothing else, cept his toys of course, which he never shows much interest in.
He would much prefer to nibble on anything else he can get his teeth onto.

He seems less playful today, has been biting at the blanket I keep covered with when I hold him as he doesn't get the litter box thing. I have not seen blood in either urine or poo. I have not heard him grinding his teeth and I can not say I see him sitting strangly. He is currently relaxing on his shelf in his cage in a normal posture.

I have made a point to offer him water and he has drank. I have seen him nibbling at his hay and pellets...but I am still concerned.

Any advice is most welcome.

 

[MsBinky]

You are doing everything right right now so don't panick :hug:It's always scary for us when it's new but you are at the right place...

There are many factors that come in play...

First of all, is he on the same food he was on when you first brought him home?

How old is he?

Did he ever eat greens before? The same ones?

The fact that there have been big changes in his life makes him more stressed. Adapting to his new environment is fun but he may have a slightly more sensitive tummy for a bit. The carrot contains a lot of sugar and if he is not used to it, that may cause it to be mushy. Also, he did see the vet recently and that too may have stressed him. Their tummies are the first to suffer when they are stressed.

You did well to call the vet and hold back on all treats. If it were actual diarrhea (liquid not mushy)it would be much more serious but you caught this early and are taking the necessary steps to make it better.

Keep an eye on him and as long as he is drinking and munching on at least some hay he should be fine :rose:

 

[aurora369]

Are the mushy poops a dark almost black/brown colour? Do they look like a cluster of raspberries? And the smell, is it like a really funky onion odour?

It is possible that your little guy is having excess cecals. Cecal matter is created in the cecum and normally the rabbit eats them right out of the anus. Cecal pellets are full of good nutrients but sometimes a bunny will over produce them.

If it is excess cecals then the best way to deal with the problem is to adjust his diet. Too much protien or carbohydrates can trigger the over production.

If it is true mushy poops (fecal matter) then the issue is more serious. True diarrhea is rare and can be life threatening if not treated.

Here is our library section on diarrhea:
http://rabbitsonline.net/view_topic.php?id=11935&forum_id=10

--Dawn

 

[ra7751]

Hey Orchid,

Check your PM. I live "just up the road" from you.

Randy

 

[MsBinky]

Oops, I missed the part on the funky smell :?Sowwy

 

[Orchid]

MsBinky wrote:

You are doing everything right right now so don't panick :hug:It's always scary for us when it's new but you are at the right place...

There are many factors that come in play...

First of all, is he on the same food he was on when you first brought him home?

How old is he?

Did he ever eat greens before? The same ones?

The fact that there have been big changes in his life makes him more stressed. Adapting to his new environment is fun but he may have a slightly more sensitive tummy for a bit. The carrot contains a lot of sugar and if he is not used to it, that may cause it to be mushy. Also, he did see the vet recently and that too may have stressed him. Their tummies are the first to suffer when they are stressed.

You did well to call the vet and hold back on all treats. If it were actual diarrhea (liquid not mushy)it would be much more serious but you caught this early and are taking the necessary steps to make it better.

Keep an eye on him and as long as he is drinking and munching on at least some hay he should be fine :rose:

I have no clue what he was fed before I received him, sadly.
The vet went with about 8 weeks old now. I was told he was about 7.
He had never had the mustard greens before last night, nor carrot.
The vet did tell me to offer veggies and fruits and so I was slowly trying to introduce them. He does not seem to want anything to do with oats, keewee (sp?), apple, but does love bannana's and likes the greens. I had been giving him some bannana in the mornings but did not yesterday as I offered the carrot. It was a teeny little carrot broken in half.

There was a lot of coming and going from the house last night. We had a lot of stuff to get in the house and than the changing up of his cage I know was distressing...so I did consider stress must be a part of it. It is not liquid at all...just solid smush.

He has been up and munching on his hay and pellets, even since I posted and he is grooming himself, moving around some.

Thanks!! I was so worried when I saw that...I am going to watch him carefully all day and if it doesn't let up by tomorrow morning we will be taking a trip to vet.

 

[Orchid]

aurora369 wrote:

Are the mushy poops a dark almost black/brown colour? Do they look like a cluster of raspberries? And the smell, is it like a really funky onion odour?

It is possible that your little guy is having excess cecals. Cecal matter is created in the cecum and normally the rabbit eats them right out of the anus. Cecal pellets are full of good nutrients but sometimes a bunny will over produce them.

If it is excess cecals then the best way to deal with the problem is to adjust his diet. Too much protien or carbohydrates can trigger the over production.

If it is true mushy poops (fecal matter) then the issue is more serious. True diarrhea is rare and can be life threatening if not treated.

Here is our library section on diarrhea:
http://rabbitsonline.net/view_topic.php?id=11935&forum_id=10

--Dawn

No...it is green- ish. No clustering. I don't know if it smells like onion...but it smells bad.

Thanks...I have been wandering around the site looking for info...and searching the web in general...but I never quite trust the random site. So much info out there now it is hard to tell what is or is not on the money...

 

[Orchid]

MsBinky wrote:

Oops, I missed the part on the funky smell :?Sowwy

Is the bad smell, a very bad sign?

 

[MsBinky]

Personally, I think that the stress mixed with all the diet changes will have caused it. Also, since you've had him about a week that means he was about 6 weeks old when you got him? Whoever sold him to you should have kept him with the mom til the age of 8 weeks.

I would think the mustard greens affected the color and smell. I would introduce fresh treats more slowly and only in a few weeks after he has settled in comfortably. From here to then, how about you introduce him tosome parsley? (After his poop has settled) It's best to introduce only one food at a time and do it over separate days. Some bunnies react to foods differently, and doing it this way allows you to see which foods may be more problematic. Also, in case you don't know, do not feed iceberg lettuce.

And another thing, they should have told you the food he was eating so that you could have taken the same kind home with you and then changed it gradually. I am telling you these things not to criticize at all. But in case you want another bunny in the future, or want to advise someone else, you will know :rose:


*Edited cause I so can't type these days*

 

[Orchid]

MsBinky wrote:

Personally, I think that the stress mixed with all the diet changes will have caused it. Also, since you've had him about a week that means he was about 6 weeks old when you got him? Whoever sold him to you should have kept him with the mom til the age of 8 weeks.

I would think the mustard greens affected the color and smell. I would introduce fresh treats more slowly and only in a few weeks after he has settled in comfortably. From here to then, how about you introduce him tosome parsley? (After his poop has settled) It's best to introduce only one food at a time and do it over separate days. Some bunnies react to foods differently, and doing it this way allows you to see which foods may be more problematic. Also, in case you don't know, do not feed iceberg lettuce.

And another thing, they should have told you the food he was eating so that you could have taken the same kind home with you and then changed it gradually. I am telling you these things not to criticize at all. But in case you want another bunny in the future, or want to advise someone else, you will know :rose:


*Edited cause I so can't type these days*

Thanks! I was told a week ago he was thought to be 7 weeks old, so it would make him 8 weeks now. The vet agreed with that. I did ask what he was being fed, but they did not know. All I got was "pellet and hay"....not very helpful eh?
I will certainly be laying off the treats as this has me worried. I had read on the web somewhere that Kale and Parsley cause painful gas and should be avoided...do you know true or not? I had started with a little bannana in the mornings and did not see a difference in poo or behavoir. He really liked it too.
I know about iceberg,..not why, but I know its bad.
No worries...info is what I posted for and everyone has been most helpful,...I don't get ticked off at people easily..

 

[Marietta]

Orchid, hi!

I would agree, too, that it must be from the stress brought about by the new environment, the stress of going to the vet plus eatingthe particular veggies. Apart from all the great info everybody else has offered, I wander if eating veggies before the age of 6 months is 100% safe. The 6-months min. age of eating veggies is, let's say, the "official" opinion, however, there is also another view saying that, if gradually and slowly introduced to veggies, it would be okay for babies less that 6 months old to eat them. I can't tell you about this, because I haven't provided veggies to my buns before the age of 6 months.

Please do read the articles related to the correct bunny diet in our Library section. You'll find everything you need to know about nutrition there. You'll also find the safe veggies and safe fruit list that you've been asking for, where you'll see that iceberg lettuce could cause diarrhea to some bunnies, that kale should be rarely given as it contains oxalates and may be toxic if accumulated over a period of time and that parsley is good as it contains vit. A. However, if fed in high quantities could -in some rabbits- cause bladder issues over the years. No commercial treats whatsoever. You could give a thin slice or two of non sugary fruits, and herbs, dill, basil etc. are a fine natural treat choice also.

Marietta

 

[Orchid]

Marietta wrote:

Orchid, hi!

I would agree, too, that it must be from the stress brought about by the new environment, the stress of going to the vet plus eatingthe particular veggies. Apart from all the great info everybody else has offered, I wander if eating veggies before the age of 6 months is 100% safe. The 6-months min. age of eating veggies is, let's say, the "official" opinion, however, there is also another view saying that, if gradually and slowly introduced to veggies, it would be okay for babies less that 6 months old to eat them. I can't tell you about this, because I haven't provided veggies to my buns before the age of 6 months.

Please do read the articles related to the correct bunny diet in our Library section. You'll find everything you need to know about nutrition there. You'll also find the safe veggies and safe fruit list that you've been asking for, where you'll see that iceberg lettuce could cause diarrhea to some bunnies, that kale should be rarely given as it contains oxalates and may be toxic if accumulated over a period of time and that parsley is good as it contains vit. A. However, if fed in high quantities could -in some rabbits- cause bladder issues over the years. No commercial treats whatsoever. You could give a thin slice or two of non sugary fruits, and herbs, dill, basil etc. are a fine natural treat choice also.

Marietta

Thanks!
I will make sure to check out that list asap...
Giving treats sure has become a stressful thing for ME! lol...

I am seeing normal poo returning...though he still seems more laid back than normal.
but than again we all have off days and if his tummy is off today I am sure than would have to do why he is not as active.
Going to try to make today a calm and mellow day and just take it easy.

 

[Marietta]

Orchid wrote:

I am seeing normal poo returning...though he still seems more laid back than normal.

That's good news. Make sure he eats as much hay as possible. Hay will help his GI tract return to normal again. Also, try to avoid veggies now that his tummy is upset. Unlimited amounts of hay, lots of water and restricted pellets will work fine. Let us know when he's okay again.

Marietta

 

[Orchid]

Will do and thanks to everyone who responded today...

 

[aurora369]

Wow, green poop. I've never seen that one.

I would cut out all veggies and fruits until his stomache is settled. If his stomache is still upset, restrict him to hay only.

If a rabbit has not been introduced to greens while still nursing with mom, it can be hard for them to adjust to greens until they are older. I always feed greens to moms and babies that I am fostering, but all the babies are still nursing and recieving antibodies from mom.

If you do want to introduce greens and other fresh fruits, I would do it slower. Give a sprig or two of parsley (or what ever green you want to start with) and wait a day or two to monitor poops. Then give 3-4 sprigs and monitor again. Slowly increase the amount until the bunny is eat a small handful with not problems. Then while continueing to give parsley, start the process with a new green. Give a little, then wait and watch. Give more then wait and watch.

It is a very slow process. And if any tummy troubles show up, stop immediatly.

Make sure he's staying nice and hydrated. Tummy troubles and mushy poops can dehydrated a little bunny quickly. You can offer him some pedialyte (electrolyte drink for dehydrated children) to help him stay hydrated.

Stay away from things like carrot or banana for now. They are high in sugars and carbs, which can upset baby bunny tummies. I know how hard it is to resist those little beggers, but until his tummy gets sorted out he should only get pellets and hay.

--Dawn

 

[Haley]

Hi and welcome! Its scarey being a first time bunny mom, especially with one so young.

I agree with others, stick with mainly pellets, hay and water in his diet.Giving him some extra hydration via pedialyte (as Dawn mentioned) would be good too.

I usually dont give any treats until around 5-6 months, then start introducing them slowly. Around that time I usually start to switch them over to Timothy based pellets as well and strictly Timothy hay, but thats a ways off for you.

He's young and a lot of change can stress him out. Rabbits pick up on our stress as well so just try to be calm around him, even though its stressful .

Youre doing a great job with him. Hes a lucky little dude

 

[Orchid]

Thank you to everyone today who settled my mind much more than the vet did. lol

He scared me a few times today with how he was looking...so lazy and sleepy and that has just not been the Simon I have come to know over the last week. There were a few moments there where I almost put him in the carrier and took him to the vet....but I held back because his poo seemed to be fine, he was indeed drinking and eating...so I figured don't panic and give it some time.

This evening Simon seems to have returned in force to his form..lol
He has been running, jumping, pooping, and sadly peeing all over me once again...lol
He is currently nibbling on his hay and looks irrated at me that I dared close his cage.
He has learned to hop onto the couch and figured if he wants he can jump the fence line of neat idea cubes I used to create a play pen. As long as I am near however he won't do that, but I dare not turn my back lol. The house is not protected enough for him. I have plants and too many cords and what nots I need to find a way to secure before free roaming could happen. Plus I was hoping to get him litter trained. I know he is young and it all takes time, but darn if he doesn't seem to come jump and sit right on me when he needs to pee.

I think it is safe to say for now we will be staying away from treats. It seems to cause more issue than good...at least for now and if pellets and hay keep him happy and healthy it works just fine for me...I would rather avoid days like today when possible.
I will still be keeping an eye on him to make sure all is well...but between the eating and his mood I think it was the greens and his tummy just coudn't deal with them.
My true thanks to everyone...

 

[Orchid]

Haley wrote:

Hi and welcome! Its scarey being a first time bunny mom, especially with one so young.

I agree with others, stick with mainly pellets, hay and water in his diet.Giving him some extra hydration via pedialyte (as Dawn mentioned) would be good too.

I usually dont give any treats until around 5-6 months, then start introducing them slowly. Around that time I usually start to switch them over to Timothy based pellets as well and strictly Timothy hay, but thats a ways off for you.

He's young and a lot of change can stress him out. Rabbits pick up on our stress as well so just try to be calm around him, even though its stressful .

Youre doing a great job with him. Hes a lucky little dude

Thank you...and I think maybe my daughter and I ended up being the lucky ones...man besides the peeing on me thing..he is such a sweet little guy...though he has no issue with nipping either..though I think that is when he is saying...HEY YOU! Love me now! lol...

I currently have timothy and alfafa hay available to him and the pellet has alfafa in it as well and there for him all the time. Open feed was what I have been reading and what the vet told me as well...until he was about 6 months old was the word.
From then I have taken it to be that alfafa causes obeisty and other issues and should be avoided. He seems to like the timothy hay more anyway...seems to munch it more than the Alfafa, but that could be because the Alfafa is right out there for him and I have the timothy in a hay ball...and he seems to like a challenge...whatever he shouldn't nibble he wants to and whatever I have given him...he doesn't want lol.
Store bought toys or toliet paper rolls with hay...if left there just for him no interest.

Zany guy...but we love him silly already...I already can not picture life without Simon.
I posted about it in another thread..but the fact that I have NO ALLERGIC REACTION WHAT SO EVER to him just blows my mind...Wish I had known that YEARS ago!
I would have had a rabbit long before now...Thankful chance and circumstance led me down this road!

 

[Orchid]

Alright...what the bleeping blank...

It is 3am my time and I let Simon out just to say good night as I could not just simply walk by while he stood there like a prisoner at the gates begging...

So out he comes and of course he must jump right up on the couch so I pick him up and what do I smell...badness...So I look at the butt and what do I see..

http://s267.photobucket.com/albums/ii306/Orchid78/SIMON/poop/

That is what I see....

Now at about 2am I watching him going bonkers running up and down from his shelf and generally has seemed just ducky. He seemed his normal happy running around self this evening....Everything seemed ok...

So..after having normal poop for most of the afternoon and evening...with no greens, no bannana, no anything but hay and pellet....and water..should smushy poo be returning? Is this like a morning thing?

Sigh...the stress returns...

I have been up a really long time now...pushing 24 hours...and I need to catch a nap at least....Please...anyone...thoughts?

 

[PepnFluff]

Pep gets it sometimes I just push the hay. I really have not much knowledge on this but someone suggested giving some pedialyte to stop him from dehydrating, I would do this they usually like it as they find it sweet and Yum tasting. Get Better Simon.