A few questions, some general and some breeding/colour questions

neejchee · Sep 25, 2013

Hello all, I'm new to rabbits and have a few (read: approximately 67 million) questions, a few of which I'm hoping people here will be willing and able to help me with.

To start with a tiny bit of background on my rabbit situation, I have two 7-8 week mini lop does who I love and adore. Although I have no interest in running anything remotely approaching a full rabbitry, I am seriously considering doing some more hobby level breeding when my girls are older. Assuming they are both good healthy candidates for breeding, I would use studs from one of the breeders they came from, probably just allow them to have one litter each, and then maybe take a breeding pair from the resulting progeny (my girls are not at all related to each other) if I decide to continue.

My girls only met tonight, when I brought Sammy home to meet Mandy, who I brought home yesterday afternoon. Mandy climbed all over Sammy sniffing her, and they then promptly snuggled up together for a snooze. I'm so happy that they got along so quickly.

So, my questions. A few quick general ones to start:

I keep hearing/reading that if you want to breed your rabbits you can't keep them together from babies, you have to keep them separate and then put them together later. If this is the case, how do people end up with surprise litters after inaccurate gender determination?

Given my girls are currently the bestestest little buddies immaginable, but will probably not be desexed, will they remain friends or start having tanties at each other when they hit puberty? If that is likely to happen, when should I expect it, how bad will it be, and will they be friends again after desexing?

Now for the colour questions, which is what I picked this part of the forum for.

I know you can't be certain at all, but particularly without full details of their genetic history, but I'm hoping you can take something of an educated guess at what colour combinations you would expect from particular pairings.

One of my girls is an apricot broken/butterfly (if anyone would like to clue me in to exactly how butterfly is defined I would be very greatful!). What combinations of coloured kits would you most likely expect if she were covered by a blue butterfly buck? What about a solid blue buck?

The other girl is a solid black. Her mother was also solid black, but her father was chocolate. What kit colours would you expect her to produce with a solid blue buck, or a solid chocolate buck?

Thanks heaps in advance for any help/advice/answers you can give me!

ps. I've attached a picture of Miranda-Jayne, if that helps anyone define butterfly v broken for me!

majorv · Sep 25, 2013

I'm not totally up on lop color genetics because I have Polish, but 'butterfly' refers to the pattern on their nose. Someone else more knowledgeable of lop colors will need to weigh in. You'll need to observe your girls as they're growing and evaluate them against the standard to see if they have the qualities of a mini lop suitable for breeding.

If you want a better chance of getting something in a future litter besides black (with your black doe) then make sure the chocolate or blue bucks you're thinking of using don't have black parents, and preferably not black grandparents. Do you have their pedigrees?

It's not unusual for rabbits that young to get along, even when they're not related. You'll just have to see how long they get along with each other though. When the hormones kick in you never know, and then they'll have to be separated. The hormonal stage can vary as to when it hits...could be as early as 3 months, or later. For as long as they get along, you can keep them together. You should keep a breeding pair apart, except to breed, so you can plan for the breeding and know when to expect the doe to kindle.

PaGal · Sep 25, 2013

How well they get along depends on the buns. I have two females I took in after a year of age. My neighbor had got them at a young age and put them together. They are bonded and other than mounting each other a bit when I first brought them home they get along fine, lay together and groom each other.

Some buns can really go at it and do some serious harm to each other.

If they don't get along once puberty hits then after desexing they could be bonded. Not all rabbits will get along and most people that bond rabbits take it slowly when they try bonding their rabbits

ladysown · Sep 25, 2013

she looks like a typical broken orange. She has a full butterfly (which means colour on both sides of her nose into the cheek beds).

They are both female?

You can keep them together for as long as they get along together.

Accidental litters come from having two "does" or two "Bucks" together where one actually ISN'T what it is supposed to be. OR if you have rabbits in two separate cages and either someone puts them together OR they breed through the wire.

How well they get along together long term depends on the rabbits and their living situation. Some rabbits can live together quite nicely in a 2 x 4 pen, others require a horse stall, still others require more than that. Depends entirely on the rabbits AND their humans tolerances. Sometimes it requires adding space and levels and hiding spots.

As long as no blood is being drawn AND both remain in excellent shape, leave them together.

I would (if you need to and ONLY if you need to - I don't recommend spaying/neutering just because).. mind that's JMHO because it is surgery and any and ALL surgery contains risk. BUT should you choose to spay them, I'd get them done at the same time so they are recuperate together. (this provided they remain comfortable with each other). If you need to separate them.. then do the surgery (if required) however it best suits your pocketbook.

you may or may not be able to bond them afterwards. Only time will tell.

NOW.. the tricky part. IF planning on breeding (otherwise disregard).

Keep hormonal levels the same. OFTEN times if one is pregnant and the other is not.. the one who is not is in danger. if both are pregnant and are bonded well with each other then they will frequently share a nestbox (this will require careful monitoring and a bigger than normal nestbox).

Jackelope · Sep 25, 2013

I keep hearing/reading that if you want to breed your rabbits you can't keep them together from babies, you have to keep them separate and then put them together later. If this is the case, how do people end up with surprise litters after inaccurate gender determination?

The reason people say you should keep them separated is because it often causes the buck to be stunted in maturity (emotionally). A buck who's been around the doe from a young age may breed with her, but there's a high chance he won't because he's so used to her. You may end up not being able to breed them when you want to even though they're ready because the buck has no clue. Whereas if you keep them separated and introduce them when they're ready, most bucks will get the idea right away.

Also, does may be capable of having babies before they should. Breeding too early can result in the death of a doe. Just in case the buck will breed with her, you should keep them separated until she is ready.

So between 2 1/2 months to 6 months is when they should be separated, for the sake of the doe and to make breeding easier for you later.

Given my girls are currently the bestestest little buddies immaginable, but will probably not be desexed, will they remain friends or start having tanties at each other when they hit puberty? If that is likely to happen, when should I expect it, how bad will it be, and will they be friends again after desexing?

They might or might now. There's no telling! Start watching for signs between starting at around 4-6 months of age.

I know you can't be certain at all, but particularly without full details of their genetic history, but I'm hoping you can take something of an educated guess at what colour combinations you would expect from particular pairings.

Does this mean they don't have pedigrees? You should not be breeding rabbits without pedigrees. Please obtain pedigreed rabbits if you intend to breed. Otherwise, they are just pet rabbits that contribute to overcrowding in shelters.

One of my girls is an apricot broken/butterfly (if anyone would like to clue me in to exactly how butterfly is defined I would be very greatful!). What combinations of coloured kits would you most likely expect if she were covered by a blue butterfly buck? What about a solid blue buck?

I'm not sure what apricot is and can't tell what color she is from the picture because of the lighting, but am guessing it's a bit of an orangey color? =) Butterfly refers to the literal butterfly-shape spot on a broken pattern rabbit's nose. Breeding orange to blue will usually result in chestnuts and opals, but it's a bad breeding combination because because the babies usually end up with bad coloring. Orange should be bred only to other orange rabbits (again, I'm not sure what color she is so I'm just guessing it's orange!) Breeding solid to broken will result in 50-50 solids and brokens.

Blue and other dilute colors only appear in litters if both parents carry it, so if the black girl has a dilute in her bakckground, she may produce blue when when bred to the blue buck, though black is dominant. If bred to the chocolate and they both carry dilute, you have a small chance of blues and lilacs but will mostly get blacks and chocolates. Especially black.