2011 Texan Tales & Tails

[Wabbitdad12]

I disapprove of this picture being taken!

 

[TinysMom]

Wabbitdad12 wrote:

I disapprove of this picture being taken!

:laugh:

Actually - her sister LOVES the camera and posing for it....she is sorta like "eh...whatever".

What's cute is when I go to the rabbitry she comes running to her cage door - but try to pet her through the wires and she's like "nuh uh....not at all".

Right now she disapproves of having NINE babies in her nest...especially since some of them are BLACK!

 

[TinysMom]

Well - we lost Brownie yesterday. The remaining babies are all still alive - but Fiona didn't feed them last night. When Robin or Art gets up in a little bit - I'm going to have to hold her over them and get her to nurse (or flip her - but when we tried that yesterday she was kicking really hard).

I keep asking myself, "Why are these babies dying and Dukey did so well?" and the only thing I can come up with is that he was 8 or 9 days old when I took over feeding him and he'd had his mama's milk all that time - whereby these babies haven't had that and just can't handle the formula the same since they're younger? I don't know.

I'm doing ok - I'm sorta too busy to be broken up about it - and to be honest with you - I'm so used to loss by now that I sorta shrug it off and mostly move on. I hate to admit that it doesn't hurt like it used to....but I've learned that is the way that nature is - the strongest survive and you do the best you can...but at some point - you will lose some.

Since I'm fighting a headache - that's all for now - more later.

Oh - and I am enjoying (mostly) feeding the kits...especially the older flee-lops. They're getting to be fun even if they're squirmy.

 

[TinysMom]

We lost another flee-lop this morning and the two newborns from the feed store aren't doing very well.

I'm trying to figure out how to say what I want to say....I don't want to come across callous - because I'm honestly not that type of person.

Oh well - I'll just trust that those of you who read my blog know me enough to understand.

I tried to put Fiona on top of the babies today. We tried holding her on her back yesterday and putting them on her and she was freaking out - I was afraid she was going to scream. She was kicking VERY hard - even with three of us working with her.

Today - as I put her in a basket with them (so I could spread them out a bit under her) - she continued to freak out and was kicking and just very very upset.

I cried a bit - out of frustration - but also out of concern - for her.

I got to thinking about it. First of all, in my opinion she was too young to be bred. Within a few days of giving birth, she was taken to the feed store, put in a cage with other rabbits (one of whom gave birth in the cage), taken to a new place, put in a new cage (twice), given a nestbox she knew nothing about, and is with strangers and eating strange food.

With all of this going on - while she is curious about us and comes to the front of the cage to see us - she almost flinches when she's touched.

I can continue to try to "FORCE" her to feed these babies - or I can be willing to let them pass (if it happens) - in order to build a relationship with her.

I don't know why the babies are passing - I'm not sure if we've not been feeding them often enough - or stimulating them enough to poo and pee - or if it is a problem with the formula. The first few had jelly like poos when they passed - meaning it was intestional. The last couple were really thin - even though I'd been feeding them good.

I just don't know.

I sat in the rabbitry for a bit with Fiona's door opened and just watched her - and she watched me for a bit too. Then I opened Harmony's cage and loved on her - and then I went to CJ's cage and loved on her.

I realized something.

My does (and my bucks) - love me - or at least they trust me and they have a relationship with me. They might not like it if I pick them up and they may struggle a bit due to a fear of falling...but they don't struggle out of a fear of me.

When I open their cages - they come and cuddle into my hands and let me pet them and love on them. They CRAVE that love and I have to spend time petting them when I feed them because they want that more than food sometimes.

Working with Fiona though is far different. She's literally terrified of whatever we do. She's curious about us - but touch her and she flinches - and as I said - at one point I thought she was going to scream.

She is curious about the babies - she looks at them in the nestbox. A couple of times she's sort of pawed at them a bit. She hasn't hurt them at all.

But its like she doesn't understand what to do now that she hags them.

So my decision is...

I'm going to feed them by hand - but leave them with her as long as possible. If nothing else - maybe she can socialize them once they come out of the nestbox. She shows no aggression towards them at all.

I'm also going to work on giving her treats (Adam will love that since the neighbor of a rabbit I'm working with always gets the treats too) and getting her used to me - and hopefully - used to my touch.

In some ways I feel bad - I used to tell Art, "If I ever stop crying over babies dying - its time for me to quit breeding".

But I've learned that death is a part of life - and that not all rabbits can make it.

I will do everything I can for these kits - don't get me wrong - and I'm really hoping the two flee lops can make it.

But I'm gonna focus my "mothering" on Fiona...and getting her to trust me.

She has such potential to be a loving bunny - she is so curious about people. She just needs to learn trust.

Oh - and her sister is ok with being picked up and held and her sister isn't terrified (I have more pictures to share later). So that is good.

And the New Zealands....I'm pulling my hair out about those two girls. They're so HUGE but I can't palpate worth beans.

I need to take them out and start handling them - even if only to socialize them - but believe it or not - they scare me. They've not been socialized before....not handled much (but some).

Oh well - enough of that.

By the way - if I seem sad - I'm really not. I'm ok with things - mostly.

I'm going to focus on the positive - loving the girls and feeding the babies - and then just not worry about the rest.

Oh - and I mentioned to Art that y'all thought I should rescue.

I won't share his response....he was half asleep fortunately but he wasn't exactly positive. He was like, 'Yeah....right....like you don't have enough people already giving you rabbits you didn't need...".

Maybe that would've been a good time to ask again for a pet skunk???

 

[Jynxie]

I'm glad you're doing okay, I'm sorry about your losses. I can understand that death is part of breeding though. I'm sorry you're having so many difficulties though.

I have a story about bottle feeding. Not the same species but just to give you an idea on how I did it. Granted I only have one. You don't have to read it if you don't want too, just stuff from my experience.

We ended up getting a kitten that was 2 days old (there was construction and they disturbed the mother cat and she never came back for him). And we brought him to the vet (she said he probably wouldn't make it so not to get attached). But she taught us how to make him use the washroom and how/what to feed him.

We feed and made him go to the washroom every two hours, we set alarms for the middle of the night and everything. My father was on sick leave so he took care of him when I was at school.

Could it also be possible that they're not warm enough? We used those warmed up gel pack things for lunch bags and covered it with a face cloth so it wouldn't burn him. Make sure there is a cool spot too.

He ended up being really healthy and he was a HUGE barn cat.

 

[TinysMom]

Carley,

Thanks for sharing your experience.

Unfortunately, I'm sorta used to trying to formula feed rabbits - either from does having a large litter and trying to supplement the feedings or from a doe not being able to nurse.

A few problems that arise from dealing with newborn rabbits - is that depending upon their breed - they can be very tiny and hard to get to drink from a syringe (and a bottle with a nipple is way too large for their mouth).

In addition - there isn't a commonly available rabbit formula like there is KMR - you sorta have to make a mixture of KMR and goat's milk and add in colostrum and even a pinch of cream (but I'm removing the cream from the recipe as I'm wondering if that was part of the problem).

When I used the recipe last time - the baby was something like 8 or 9 days old and able to suck from a syringe (and then a bottle) quite successfully without aspirating. But - he'd had mom's milk and colostrum for several days first to help his intestines.

In this case - we're starting from day one....makes it much harder.

We lost the two newborns from the feed store - but I figured last night that we probably would.

We're down to two flee-lops and the three rabbits that Fiona had.

So far - there is no sign of mucus with their poops.

 

[Jynxie]

That is true, I didn't think about the different milks nor did I think about how much smaller they would be other then a kitten.

I think you're doing a good job, I can't even try to think how hard it would have been trying to bottle/syringe feed all those babies.

 

[TinysMom]

Jynxie wrote:

That is true, I didn't think about the different milks nor did I think about how much smaller they would be other then a kitten.

I think you're doing a good job, I can't even try to think how hard it would have been trying to bottle/syringe feed all those babies.

With a small breed - I sometimes have to start with a Q-tip that has formula on it and "paint" their lips so that they get a drop and will take it in -and then do that over and over again.

It takes a lot of time. When I had the 7 flee-lops and we were starting out with the 1 cc syringe - it took about an hour per session w/ Robin helping to feed them and clean them.

Now that they're up to a 3 cc syringe and doing better - we did the 2 flee-lops and 3 calis (that are almost the same size but using the 1 cc syringe) in about 20 minutes earlier tonight.

 

[TinysMom]

All of the babies are still alive this morning (yeah!).

Fiona even just let me pet her - in fact - when I stopped - she NUDGED me for a couple more pets.

Harmony is driving me crazy by digging in her cage. This makes me think she really IS pregnant...I hope so....as if I remember right - she was a great mama.

That's about all for right now - more later.

 

[Nela]

Peg,

You're doing such a great job. I don't think it's bad that you see the losses as a natural loss and not a personal one. It wasn't you failing them. Sometimes, all we can do is love them as best we can while we have them and relinquish control. Good on you for pushing forwards.

I'm glad to hear they are doing well. Do you think we can see them soon? :biggrin2:Hehehe. Give Fiona and Harmony some noserubs for me please.

Lol @ Art about the rescuing. I meant if you were to start all over by the way, you have enough to deal with now

As for stinkers, I think we all arein one way or another:biggrin2:I am a bit confused as to why no fiesta dinnerware though? :?

 

[TinysMom]

Nela wrote:

Do you think we can see them soon? :biggrin2:

[align=center]

[/align][align=left]I kept trying to show how long their ears were....black babies are hard to photograph!
[/align]

 

[TinysMom]

Fiona HATED her nestbox - so I put washcloths in the bottom of this so the babies wouldn't get splay legs and used a plastic container....she's much happier.

I am not sure if she peed on the babies or they peed on each other - there wasn't as much pee on them as I thought there would have been if she had peed on them.

 

[Nela]

Eeeeeeeeeee so cute! Thank you!

I love this wee one:

 

[TinysMom]

The two flee-lops (black ones) are DEFINITELY bucks. I have the wet shirt to prove it.

 

[TinysMom]

All five babies made it through the night....off to get rabbit food for the next two weeks and then get ready to leave for the show this afternoon (show is tomorrow - leaving this afternoon).

 

[Jynxie]

Have fun at the show.

 

[Wabbitdad12]

So cute!:inlove::inlove::inlove::inlove:

 

[TinysMom]

Still going to rabbit show but plans have changed - leaving around midnight and Art will go w/ Robin & I. This way - I can save $80 hotel bill (I knew I couldn't handle the drive twice in one day).

 

[TinysMom]

Back home already.....nothing like a blow-out (tire) 31 miles from home - and not having a spare that will keep the air in...to ruin a trip.

Art's friend Dale came and picked us up and we'll use his truck tomorrow to run a new tire out to the car and put it on.

Oh well....such is life?

 

[Bassetluv]

Aw Peg, I'm sorry to hear about the little ones that you lost. One thing I tend to believe about rabbits is that, since they are prey animals, it can often be a real challenge to raise them to maturity. They have multiple babies which, unfortunately in nature, is for a reason... a matter of survival of the fittest. Like sea turtles too...there are so many baby turtles that hatch just so they can beat the odds and have a few make it to the ocean, and then of those few, even fewer make it to adulthood. It's a numbers game when it all comes down to whether or not they all survive. Although we give them the best of odds for that chance, not all do.

I do have to say that the pics you posted of the little ones are adorable! I especially love these ones:

Just lookit those EARS!!!!!

:inlove: