WTH????

[Fancy77]

pamnock wrote:

Fancy77 wrote:

pamnock wrote:

I would strongly recommend against rehoming a rabbit known to be dangerous.

This type of behavior goes past normal aggression/biting, so great care must be taken when handling.

This is good advice Pam thank you but wont he get worse then if i dont touch him...I mean still cleaning up after him but not touching him. And animals can sense human feelings...I might have a hard time going in by him with out anxiety???

I put extensive time inworking with a buck that had the same disposition. There was no change. The day he came out of his cage attached to my arm was his last. He was just too dangerous to have around my kids.

I'm getting the impression that in your heart, you do not want to put him to sleep. You will never be able to "cure" him of this behavior, but you can learn to protect yourself and live with it.

my heart says I love him and he "could" get better lol this might not b realistic. How will he get better if I am not strong enough mentally and emotionally to work hard at fixing him. Logically I need to keep everyone in this family safe. but it seems I am the only one that is not safe.

 

[Maureen Las]

I was bitten pretty bad with Gabriel latching onto my arm and holding on.

It was a very painful wound that took a long time to heal.
I had to fight myself emotionally to notdislike him
I was really afraid to handle him after that because he did try to bite me often after that one episode.

I wore long pants (jeans) , shoes and socks ,long thick shirts or a jacket and gloves when I entered his area( he was in an x-pen). ifI was covered i was not afriad to handle him and if he did attempt to bite he didn't get flesh.

His problem was the fact that because of his health issuesI had to postpone neutering him

I guess that whatI am suggesting is that if you need time to think about what to do about this that youshould protect yourself likeI did until you can figure out if you want or can deal with him .

:hug:Maureen

Do you think that he would do OK in a single rabbit home or do you think that he is just plain an aggressive rabbit.??

 

[Fancy77]

angieluv wrote:

I was bitten pretty bad with Gabriel latching onto my arm and holding on.

It was a very painful wound that took a long time to heal.
I had to fight myself emotionally to notdislike him
I was really afraid to handle him after that because he did try to bite me often after that one episode.

I wore long pants (jeans) , shoes and socks ,long thick shirts or a jacket and gloves when I entered his area ( he was in an x-pen). ifI was covered i was not afriad to handle him and if he did attempt to bite he didn't get flesh.

His problem was the fact that because of his health issuesI had to postpone neutering him

I guess that whatI am suggesting is that if you need time to think about what to do about this that youshould protect yourself likeI did until you can figure out if you want or can deal with him .

:hug:Maureen

Do you think that he would do OK in a single rabbit home or do you think that he is just plain an aggressive rabbit.??

Thats a good question Maureen...I do feel a single family home would be best but I dont think its fair if I was to think of getting rid of Monty, just to take a chance on Jay Jay possibly getting better. It is just me he dislikes...he is great with John and my boys I dont let him out to run around with the daycare kids, Just in case. I mean I gate things off at quiet time and have let Jay Jay run around, but i am not letting Jay Jay interact with them.

But if i think in hypothetical...will Jay Jay b better if he is the only bun...I dont know...now that he has aggression will he get worse with just me or will he get worse where he is lashing out at everyone???

Monty is great he loves playing with the kids and so far had not shown any signs of having puberty issues. which is good, cuz I wont b getting him neutered just yet.

 

[Maureen Las]

I did NOT mean that you should rehome Monty at all by my post.

I was just wondering ifJay Jay would do better in a single rabbit home although no new rabbit owner would probably want him now. I was just kind of thinking out loud...

 

[Fancy77]

angieluv wrote:

I did NOT mean that you should rehome Monty at all by my post.

I was just wondering ifJay Jay would do better in a single rabbit home although no new rabbit owner would probably want him now. I was just kind of thinking out loud...

ok I wasnt sure and thx for clearing that up!!!

and think out loud all u need lol

 

[Pipp]

I think you underestimate the rescue community. They love a challenge. Many rescues will often find that the 'problem' unadoptables can be taken in fairly quickly by someone in their network who wants to be the 'rabbit whisperer'.

And a rabbit sanctuary -- which may or may not be part of a regular rescue -- is just a free run area where a bunch of mostly unadoptable rabbits live out their days.

He's neutered so that works in his favour. I think by donating to the rescue for his care and/or taking another rabbit to help free up space, this may be an option for Jay Jay.

Definitely worth inquiries. If you say the vet is recommending euthanasia, that will get their attention.

Even a Craigslist ad. You'll get responses from the odd nutbar and/or the judgmental CL watchers (who seem to have nothing better to do) but word often filters to true rescuers.

I'd probably take him in here if I saw that kind of an ad -- although I'm space challenged at the moment. Other suckers like me are around.


sas :clover:

 

[Maureen Las]

Denise lives near me and the only rescue communityI can think of would be Minnesota Companion Rabbit Society in St Paul. they will not take rabbits from individuals but She could surrender him to Animal Humane in St Paul and the rabbits that are not adoptable are given to Minnesota companion rabbit.
the problem with this is thatI do not know if Animal humane euthanizes any rabbits; there is no way for me to know that.

I pmdDenise thatI would take him ifI did not have a houseful asI would like the challenge , however, there is no room at this inn LOL
The ideal would be if another RO member took him.

 

[Pipp]

I think with a Craigslist ad that indicates the rabbit may be endangered, the MCRS may take him directly if they're like most rescues. The general policy is because rabbits being surrendered are rarely endangered.

The the possibility of a donation and/or making a 'trade', it's more likely. But only if he's endangered. (I was quite happy to hear the Vet's recommendation for that reason).

PS: Would be good if the rescue or whoever can determine whether he can live in a group situation, so even having somebody there test him out will help.


sas :bunnydance:

 

[Fancy77]

The vet just called and told me about former vet tec named Julia Crawford in Caledonia, WI i think I have lefts a message with her. Maybe she can help me.

I also called the local HS and well there personality are stellar. and since the vet recomended euth. that is what they would do. they laughed in my face..and told me to have a good day.

I called Rochester, MN also I got a better person on the phone but they 2 said they would prob. euth.

 

[Fancy77]

OK Message left with MCRS asking for help..

 

[Pipp]

No, don't bother with the HS or SPCA or any official shelter. This is for rabbits only, and only the fanatics.

But the info that they will euthanize as well will help, too, in terms of getting their attention. A craigslist ad is probably the place to start.

You don't really want him cooped up in a cage anyway, best to take some time to find a 'whisperer' or a sanctuary. It may mean a transport, but you have some time to look.


sas

 

[Pipp]

I might have taken the backdoor with the Craigslist, but might as well throw the works at them.

I can post a CL ad if you like, and just say 'a friend...' I can get the responses here.


sas

 

[Fancy77]

Pipp wrote:

No, don't bother with the HS or SPCA or any official shelter. This is for rabbits only, and only the fanatics.

But the info that they will euthanize as well will help, too, in terms of getting their attention. A craigslist ad is probably the place to start.

You don't really want him cooped up in a cage anyway, best to take some time to find a 'whisperer' or a sanctuary. It may mean a transport, but you have some time to look.


sas

HA HA dont bother...lol ok i wont call any others lol and the way I put it to any of these ppl was I needed help which i guess i should have put it differntly.



OK if i do do a craigs list add how do i tell the diffence between good prospects and bad ones. How do i know they r not just blowing smoke in my face and off he goes to market. how do I word and ad??

Sorry lots of questions..I like thinking of all posibilities b4 i act, i need all facts b4 i jump into any thing hasty

I dont want regrets and I would hate for any one of my RO members to think I am the worst bunny owner ever...I am already feeling that way...I feel like I am in mental pergatory

 

[Fancy77]

Pipp wrote:

I might have taken the backdoor with the Craigslist, but might as well throw the works at them.

I can post a CL ad if you like, and just say 'a friend...' I can get the responses here.


sas

wow thx SAS that is vey nice of you but if I have the right tools and info I feel the obligation to see this through what ever the ending might be.

 

[Torchster]

Fancy - Lets take a step back.

I was trying to figure what we have going on here. Please let me know if I get my facts mixed up.

JJ was the first one on the scene. JJ had a lot of the house to himself (not all, but bunny safe parts). Everyone, including you, all seemed to get along well with JJ. At the proper time, you took JJ to be fixed (being the very good bunny mom you are). That was back in late November.

Sometime around then you got Monty, bun #2. Monty is still a little on the young side, so he has not been fixed. He is getting close to sexuality maturity, but not ready to be fixed yet.

Now, if I understand things correctly, these buns are really never around each other. They are kept in separate rooms in separate parts of the house.

I think that its safe to say that both Monty and JJ know about each other. Try as anyone might, the buns are just going to know. Also, JJ is somewhat fresh off a fix, and probably still has some horomones running thru him. Monty is probably just getting them going.

If anyone is going to have a problem with another bun in the house, one would think it would be JJ. Perhaps, once Monty gets all the horomones going, Monty will feel the same way. But for now, we are talking about JJ.

Now lately, JJ has become aggressive. Something has changed in JJ to make him more aggressive since he got fixed...which is very unusual.

They only major change I see is Monty. Perhaps you Fancy are the one that JJ sees as the other male bunny in his turf. He knows that there is another male bunny around there somewhere - and you smell like him most of all (because you spend the most time cleaning his cage and the like). So you are the invader. Smells are probably more important than sight.

The only thing that I can think of is getting JJ used to Monty. I DO NOT MEAN PUTTING THEM IN THE SAME CAGE!!! Now, I don't know your set up...but if have you 2 different cages that you could space far enough apart in the same room so that Monty and JJ could see and smell each other, but not touch. I mean cages that are separated by a couple of feet - so no paws could get to the other bun. If I am correct, maybe JJ would stop being aggressive towards you. Just a thought. Maybe they need to see each other. Not be close to each other, but just see each other.

Then again, what do i know?

 

[Fancy77]

Torchster wrote:

Fancy - Lets take a step back.

I was trying to figure what we have going on here. Please let me know if I get my facts mixed up.

JJ was the first one on the scene. JJ had a lot of the house to himself (not all, but bunny safe parts). Everyone, including you, all seemed to get along well with JJ. At the proper time, you took JJ to be fixed (being the very good bunny mom you are). That was back in late November. Yep he did

Sometime around then you got Monty, bun #2. Monty is still a little on the young side, so he has not been fixed. He is getting close to sexuality maturity, but not ready to be fixed yet.Yep

Now, if I understand things correctly, these buns are really never around each other. They are kept in separate rooms in separate parts of the house. Yep

I think that its safe to say that both Monty and JJ know about each other. Try as anyone might, the buns are just going to know. Also, JJ is somewhat fresh off a fix, and probably still has some horomones running thru him. I was under the impression it takes about 6 weeks to get back to normal at which Jay Jay is past that markMonty is probably just getting them going. Could be

If anyone is going to have a problem with another bun in the house, one would think it would be JJ. Perhaps, once Monty gets all the horomones going, Monty will feel the same way. dont understand "feel the same way" But for now, we are talking about JJ.

Now lately, JJ has become aggressive. Something has changed in JJ to make him more aggressive since he got fixed...which is very unusual. Well as u probably know from reading my blog Jay Jay had had lunging, peeing and pooping issues since Monty came...I had posted and asked for advice a few times

They only major change I see is Monty. Perhaps you Fancy are the one that JJ sees as the other male bunny in his turf. He knows that there is another male bunny around there somewhere - and you smell like him most of all (because you spend the most time cleaning his cage and the like). So you are the invader. Smells are probably more important than sight. Yacould be

The only thing that I can think of is getting JJ used to Monty. I DO NOT MEAN PUTTING THEM IN THE SAME CAGE!!! Now, I don't know your set up...but if have you 2 different cages that you could space far enough apart in the same room so that Monty and JJ could see and smell each other, but not touch. I mean cages that are separated by a couple of feet - so no paws could get to the other bun. If I am correct, maybe JJ would stop being aggressive towards you. Just a thought. Maybe they need to see each other. Not be close to each other, but just see each other.

Then again, what do i know?

I did try Danielles idea of the towel and Jay Jay scratched the tar out of it, started spraying and poopinng all over. He was mad.

 

[hln917]

Sorry you're going thru this Denise and I do not think you're a bad bun mom!

 

[Fancy77]

hln917 wrote:

Sorry you're going thru this Denise and I do not think you're a bad bun mom!

THX huni u just made me cry That statement makes me feel better but TBH i still do lol

 

[Pipp]

I have no doubt that Jay Jay will improve at least somewhat, I think Monty's neuter will help, as will just time. Thus I'm also recommending that Monty gets neutered and Jay Jay has some time to get used to him, because if nothing else works, keeping him (isolated) may be the only option left (that isn't euthanasia). I certainly wouldn't try bonding him with Monty unless he turns into a sweet trustworthy bunny longterm.

But the reality is that chances are pretty slim that he'll progress that far.

Jay Jay may never be trustworthy in a home that involves small children and day care. His bad behaviour is beyond any bunny nipping I've seen, and because he's so big, it can't be easily dismissed like it is with my little guys. Jay Jay can do damage. (I don't even want to think about the potential liability issues).

Right now, I really think other options must be explored. If something perfect for Jay Jay comes up, great, problem solved.

More likely, though, the search will take time, and the option of him getting used to Monty will be there regardless.


sas :expressionless:

 

[Happi Bun]

I'm sorry this is happening. :hug: It's never easy dealing with an animal with behavioral problems since you cannot simply ask them why they are acting in such a way, nor can you really relate on their level being different species. It does seem like it may be more than coincidence that his territorial problems have gone to the extreme around the same time you brought a male close to sexual maturity home. Being prey animals their sense of smell is much more enhanced than our own. Humans have around 5 million scent receptors, Rabbit's have 100 million. So even though you changed your clothes, it's probably safe to assume you would still have scent lingering on your skin. Especially on your hands from petting.

I had a horse way back in the day that I was told to euthanize because he was going to kill me. His story was much different of course. He was a senior when my mom bought him for me for a few hundred dollars and he was such an emotional wreck. We are talking about a 1000 lb pound animal that that is scared of his own shadow and completely distrusting of humans. I was told he was going to kill me, but I loved that horse and honestly believed we were soul mates meant to find each other. I was kicked, dragged, thrown off, ran over, etc. but after a year of blood, sweat and tears he put everyone that said he was nothing but dangerous to shame. We had a few wonderful years together. Then he started behaving very strangely, making weird head movements and would pace in his stall literally 24/7. He didn't even recognize me anymore, usually my voice would calm him. The vet had to sedate him just to do an exam and came to the conclusion of a brain tumor. He had started having seizures as well. It started seriously effecting his sanity and behavior. He no longer had any quality of life and was in serious pain from making himself lame in all legs. The only option was humane euthanasia. So on some level I understand what you are going through.

I wouldn't feel comfortable telling you what choice to make or even what I would do in your situation, you know him best. Of course I believe every option should be considered before euthanasia is decided which I'm sure you will do anyway.