Wound on left flank - HEALING NICELY NOW

[MsBinky]

I agree with Ivory about the molar abcess. I am just wondering if the pus fromt he abscess could have caused the skin infection on the flank? Like if the bun had a scratch or something and while grooming, infected herself?

Can something like that be possible?

 

[Ivory]

That's theoretically possible, actually.

But I don't know if the abscess is dripping pus, or if it's just dermatitis. The abscess would have to be opened.

 

[ChinaBun]

I appreciate the answers that were given. At your encouragement, I went to the vet this afternoon. Not a rabbit-savvy one, of course. But she cut away the fur near the wound and treated it with several things. I could see the wound better and it is healing. In the photo above from yesterday, there are fresh parts of the wound, but today there were none. The area is crusting over. The vet apparently applied four things to the wound. I don't think you'll agree with what she did, but I had no control over it. However, I have control now. The vet started with washing it with hydrogen peroxide, then swabbed it with iodine (or Betadine), then according to my student, she swabbed it with alcohol (though my cat-loving houseguest says that would have hurt the bunny, so maybe my student got it wrong), then she finished with an antibiotic. The vet also confirmed that the sore area looked like a fungal infection. She suggested that I do those four steps to Qingqing several times a day, but I'm not going to. Based on what I have read here, the hydrogen peroxide is not good for her. I only used that on the first day of the wound, then changed to an antibiotic ointment.

I plan to start using the anti-fungal cream (Ketoconozole) on her starting tomorrow. She is still eating and pooping fine, and in good spirits.

Based on what others have said here, I am wondering if she did indeed get this wound from scratching the lump on her jaw and then scratching the place that is now sore. But wait, I don't think she can get to her lump, unless she somehow got a little pus (assuming that there was any) and carried it to the place with her tongue. Her back feet can't reach the spot where she has the sore.

 

[Ivory]

Some people won't agree with what your vet did, but I think that it was a good idea. Ketoconozale is a good med. We use it all the time.

Hydrogen peroxide may harm the skin, but sometimes it's used to good effect. It just depends on the situation.

Best of luck with Qingqing!

 

[ChinaBun]

Ivory, how do I use the Ketoconozale? I did a google search and came up empty. Perhaps I was using the wrong search words.

This morning the wound looks worse, either from too strong of treatment yesterday or from Qingqing aggravating the area.

Should I find a collar for her to wear? The vet recommended one, but didn't have one small enough for her. My students tried to make one out of cardboard, but as I suspected, it lastes five minutes!

As I've said before, even with a lump on her jaw and a nasty-looking wound, she is still eating and happy. I am fortunate.

 

[missyscove]

I know nothing about fungal infections, but I thought I'd add in that when Timmy fights with Fiona and she gets wounds, I clean them with a hydrogen peroxide dilute and then apply neosporin. That's always worked for me. I've never had issues with the peroxide.
Best of luck with Qingqing.

 

[ChinaBun]

My friend and I applied the anti-fungal, but Qingqing soon started getting at the wound again. It obviously itches, and she makes it worse by biting and tearing the fur out. My friend tried to make a home-made collar, but it was off in a few minutes. Then we wrapped the wound area in gauze, but it was also off in a few minutes. Now I have called some students to come over and supervise Qingqing, while I go buy a real collar. The girls don't have class this afternoon, so they can watch TV and watch my bunny for signs of going after her bad spot, then try to distract her.

 

[ChinaBun]

I don't have classes on Thursdays, so I've got time to show you some photos from today. I have to wait here 30 more minutes because it's pay day and a school official is coming with my money. My rabbit watchers are watching a movie and my rabbit, and my houseguest is packing for her departure tomorrow.

First, my cat-loving houseguest Carol Ann made a collar out of a new trash can and tape and ribbon. It lasted five minutes.

 

[ChinaBun]

Another view of the trash can collar.

Then we wrapped the sore part in gauze. That lasted three minutes.

Then I called some of my students, who were free this afternoon. Here is Wysteria watching Qingqing, in Qingqing's enclosed balcony/private room.

Here are all four of my rabbit watchers: Jennifer, Cici, Fiona and Wysteria. My students choose English names to use in class.

I just checked. Wysteria is on the phone, Fiona is petting Qingqing and encouraging her to not mess with her bad spot, and Jennifer and Cici and my guest are watching "Music and Lyrics"!

 

[ChinaBun]

Two students went with me to buy a collar for her while two stayed here to keep an eye on her. She has now been wearing her collar for three hours. She certainly doesn't like it! She goes through phases where she accepts it, and phases where she bucks like a horse to try to get it off, sometimes using her front legs. I just put more anti-fungal medicine on her wound. I'm hoping that she will heal soon, now that she can't make the wound worse. Poor little thing.

 

[Ivory]

Actually, Chinabun, E-collars aren't really adviseable for rabbits. It doesn't allow them to practice cecotrophy, and then they become depressed, and other problems ensue. I wouldn't even bother with it. I'd just let her lick at it and groom it. She will help to keep it clean.

You simply apply the Ketoconozale onto the wound, maybe a little around it. It will look worse before it looks better- keep applying it. Just remember that: it will look worse before it looks better. It's okay if she's licking at it.

Another thing you may want to try is getting some triple antibiotic ointment. Apply the antibiotic ointment first, let it sit for a minute or two, then apply the Ketoconozale. There are probably bacteria in there that may be making it itch worse.

So if you can, try that. The antibiotic cream won't affect the Ketoconozale, and vice versa.

Let the sore part stay open to let it heal. With regular application of the ointments, and cleaning of the wound, it should heal nicely.

For a regular cleaning, Betadine would be better than the hydrogen peroxide. If you can get your hands on some Chlorahexaderm, use that. It is very good.

 

[ChinaBun]

Ivory, thanks for your answer. I now have some Betadene that I can use for general cleaning. As for this wound, I'll put the antibiotic ointment on first and then the Keto. .. .

I felt sorry for her an hour ago (before reading your reply) and let her out of her collar. She groomed her face and ears for a bit, but then went right to the sore spot and started chewing on it. I understand what you are saying about why the collar isn't good, but based on the past two days, I am afraid that she will continue to chew on the wound and tear out hair and in general make it worse.

I have only been putting the Keto . . . on for today, if that makes any difference. The wound certainly still seems to be itching her. I put the collar back on, for fear of more damage. She is able to eat OK with it on.

What would be the harm in keeping the collar on tonight (it's 10:20 pm in China now) to give the wound 12 hours free from her biting?

 

[Ivory]

Hey Chinabun,

It's actually okay for her to lick at the wound to help it clean itself. We recently had a rabbit with very deep, very nasty wounds on his back- they were infected. We would put ointment on the wounds and let him pick at them to his heart's content after making sure the ointment sunk in, and he wasn't licking it off. It was about as extensive as yours is, although he didn't transfer any kind of dermatitis, which is probably how hers got a fungal infection on it.

So yes. In my opinion, she shouldn't have the E-collar on constantly. This will hinder her cecotrophy- the eating of cecotrophs, or the "special packages" of poop that rabbits need to consume in order to really be able to eat properly. If you feel more comfortable having the E-collar on all the time, try to pick up her cecotrophs and let her eat them. They are the smelly, soft poops that look like little bunches of grapes, almost. They're pungent. You can't miss them.

What *I* would do, personally, is put the collar on before you put the ointments on. Let the ointments sink in for a few hours, with the collar on. There are antibiotic ointments that also have anti-itch properties, perhaps one of those would be a good thing to get. And after a while, I would just take it off for a few hours.

You could also try putting some of the Keto on the lump on her jaw, in case the dermatitis is caused by a fungal agent. What I would think, is that the skin problem on her jaw lump is caused by a fungus, she got an open wound on her back flank, and began grooming it. The fungus got transferred. But luckily, the medicine will help with that issue!

Best of luck to you and Qingqing.

 

[MsBinky]

That is a tough call on the collar... I understand the reason for removing it as much as the reason for keeping it on.

When I got Wiggles, she was in so much pain... Her legs were infected so bad... She would chew at them. I'm not kidding, I saw her do it myself. It was a pitiful site. So yes, I do believe that they very well can make wounds worse.

I also agree that they get depressed when they can't groom themselves etc.

I guess what I would do is keep the color on but remove it when she is eating... She will most likely be preoccupied with eating and won't pay as much attention to the wound. Mine usually groom themselves after eating and eat their cecals not too long after... Maybe you could leave it off for that period of time and then put it back on afterwards.

It sucks, but right now we really don't want her making it worse.

 

[Ivory]

MsBinky wrote:

I guess what I would do is keep the color on but remove it when she is eating... She will most likely be preoccupied with eating and won't pay as much attention to the wound. Mine usually groom themselves after eating and eat their cecals not too long after... Maybe you could leave it off for that period of time and then put it back on afterwards.

:yeahthat:
That's good advice.

 

[NZminilops]

I know that my post is sort of pointless, I was just wondering, is it possible that she's been burnt?

My rabbit BunBun was burnt with just-boiled water when he was about 4 months old. My brother was making a cup of tea and BunBun was having his free time running around the house. My brother Chris did not realise BunBun was standing by the bench and somehow he tipped the hotwater from the kettle in the wrong direction and some of it splashed down onto BunBun.

Chris was too terrified of how angry I would be and didn't tell me he had burnt BunBun :?. I discovered weeping wounds like you have on your bunny about 2 days later. They healed fine, I was just wondering if that could have happened to her too?

That's why BunBun has white patches on his back, in cahse anyone ever wondered.

 

[swanlake]

when fuz had an abcess, my vet (before the rabbit savvy one) said not to let her lick the stuff so i made her a little coat. pretty much i took some fabric and cut it so it was like a vest. i made holes for her front paws and used some string to tie up the back. it worked pretty well. she did manage to get it off but not for a day at least. by then the stuff had sunk in.

this might work better than the cone if you are worried about her licking and making the wound worse. that way she can still do her thing, groom a bit and be fine.

hope she feels better!!:bunnynurse:

 

[ChinaBun]

Thanks for all of the information above! I appreciate you all taking the time to write.

Last night I left the collar on all night. I didn't follow the advice here, because the memory of how bad she looked yesterday morning was strong. I felt she needed a night for the wound to heal. I was gone all morning, but my houseguest was here. She said the wound looked better, but Qingqing looked sad, so she took the collar off in the late morning. (My rabbit is able to eat with the collar on.) She had an hour or so with it off, then after I came home from classes, I helped my visitor to apply the medicine and to re-collar her. Poor Qinqqing looked so sad, so now I understand why you say that rabbits can get depressed while wearing that collar. The afternoon was busy, as my guest went to the airport to fly home to the US. In the early evening I let her go bare-necked for an hour, before applying more medicine. After that, she wore the collar again until just now (after midnight in China), when I took it off again.

I know, too much information! Who has time to read this?!

I'm going to let her go collar-less tonight and see how the wound looks tomorrow.

Each time when I took the collar off, the first thing she did was to wash her face or eat, not to lick or bite her wound. This tells me that it's not itching her too badly now. Of course, after washing her face and scratching and eating, she starts licking and, sadly, sometimes biting, her wound. However, I think she's biting less than before. We'll see how she looks tomorrow.

 

[tonyshuman]

i think what you're doing--letting her only have the collar off for an hour or so at a time--is fine. you need to keep her from biting that. it probably kept on looking bigger because she was biting it. good luck to you both!

 

[tonyshuman]

ok so this is a link i found---i don't know what it says (because it's in chinese), but maybe it is house rabbit information in china? i got to it from the house rabbit society of singapore's website, and was thinking maybe it is the website of a chinese house rabbit society type thing, and maybe it has vets that are in china that deal with rabbits?
http://www.gina-rabbit.net/rabbit/hrs/index.html
i could of course be completely wrong.