Sarah93
Well-Known Member
lol
ok, when should I limit them then?
I havent so far, they seem to like the grass a lot more though
ok, when should I limit them then?
I havent so far, they seem to like the grass a lot more though
What do you think of a no pellet diet?
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dixonsrabbitry1
Well-Known Member
The information involving babies can conflict at times. You self feed them up until a certain age. I cut mine off at weaning time, to about a cup a day, or whatever they will clean up in a day. sometimes if you feed them all they want after that, it can cause some obesity problems. I would say any time after eight weeks. I wouldn't go as far as seven months though, because again, you take chances of running into obesity problems.
Sarah93
Well-Known Member
yeah idk...
Its just hard cause there are so many opinions and I dont know which ones I agree with
Cause they all have their pros and cons..
maybe I'll give them all then can eat until their four months old, then limit it to hald a cup after about four months?
I dont know...
lol
Its just hard cause there are so many opinions and I dont know which ones I agree with
Cause they all have their pros and cons..
maybe I'll give them all then can eat until their four months old, then limit it to hald a cup after about four months?
I dont know...
lol
Happi Bun
Well-Known Member
It can be very confusing, I know.
Here is the link to the House Rabbit Society's Diet recommendations. It should answer all your questions and help clear up some things. This is the guideline I follow and so far I've been very happy with the results. I start limiting pellets when I switch over to timothy, around 7 months of age.
http://www.rabbit.org/faq/sections/diet.html
Here is the link to the House Rabbit Society's Diet recommendations. It should answer all your questions and help clear up some things. This is the guideline I follow and so far I've been very happy with the results. I start limiting pellets when I switch over to timothy, around 7 months of age.
http://www.rabbit.org/faq/sections/diet.html
OakRidgeRabbits
Well-Known Member
Sarah93 wrote:
I think it sounds good if you switch this. 1/3 cup as youngsters and 1/4 cup as adults, with plenty of roughage to supplement the diet. 1/3 is more than 1/4 cup.yeah, I think I'll keep it.
But only give them 1/4 a cup a day each righe now, and then maybe 1/3 a cup later one when they're full grown.
And still research what things from outside I can give them so they stay healthy
Sound good to everyone?
lol
OakRidgeRabbits
Well-Known Member
Also, another note. You do want to limit pellets, even for young rabbits. Too much protein can cause diarreah, and babies have a tendency to gorge themselves if they get the chance.
What breed is this? I think maybe you'd want to shoot for 1/2 cup per 5 lbs. of expected adult weight daily, rather than the 1/3 I mentioned before. And then make sure they have unlimited grass hay, as well as alfalfa if you have it available to you.
But there is really no time that I think unlimited pellets are a great idea, personally.
What breed is this? I think maybe you'd want to shoot for 1/2 cup per 5 lbs. of expected adult weight daily, rather than the 1/3 I mentioned before. And then make sure they have unlimited grass hay, as well as alfalfa if you have it available to you.
But there is really no time that I think unlimited pellets are a great idea, personally.
LV426
Well-Known Member
So I'm going to approach this no pellet question from a different perspective and not from just a rabbit one.
I own tortoises. 3 Russian tortoises and 1 Redfoot tortoise. Now the ideal diet for a Russian is grasses and hays because they are from a desert climate and can't handle a lot of sugars. Sound familiar? Yeah they are a lot like rabbits in that manner. Now my Redfoot is different, he's from a more tropical climate and needs lots of greens and fruits and vegetables. She can eat hay but doesn't get much nutrition from it.
Now my main problem is that while I can provide grasses and hays and fruits and veggies, I can't provide the foods in the natural habitat. Tortoises wander miles grazing on anything they can, even carrion. And since I don't live in their natural habitat I'm stuck on relying on what I can grow or have access to in order to provide a balanced diet.
But even I fall short no matter the buffet I offer. So I supplement their diets with Mazuri tortoise chow. They don't eat everyday like rabbits do, although they do get hay everyday but once every 2 weeks they get 3 or 4 Mazuri tortoise chow pellets. The reason is that the pellets have been formulated to give the tortoises what they need for sure. Now I don't keep them on a strictly pellet diet because they would get really fat and they need more fiber than the pellets can give them. But I find that the pellets are necessary in a limited quantity.
If you look at what wild rabbits eat you will see they also will graze constantly. They will eat whatever weed, grass, hay, flower, or tree bark they can get. Most of what they eat is high in fiber and fairly low in nutrition so they graze frequently. Spring there's more variety so they have more nutrient rich foods but in winter they might have nothing more than tree bark and some dried yellow grasses they've dug from under the snow. So if you wanted to provide a natural diet for your rabbit you would have to gather all kinds of weeds and grasses and hays and tree bark and flowers. In enough quantities to keep your rabbit fed and in enough variety so they get all of the vitamins and minerals they need.
Realistically this isn't going to happen unless you turn your rabbit loose in the yard and let the forage on their own and even then there's no sure way to make sure that they get access to the plants they need. And Domestics aren't made for living in the wild. Not to mention in winter they would probably starve. But thankfully we have vets and dieticians who have formulated an easily obtainable source of food for our critters. Pellets. Some are better than others so you still have to do your research but over all if you want a natural diet I would recommend that you at least supplement the diet with the pellets so that they don't lose out on important vitamins and minerals.
I own tortoises. 3 Russian tortoises and 1 Redfoot tortoise. Now the ideal diet for a Russian is grasses and hays because they are from a desert climate and can't handle a lot of sugars. Sound familiar? Yeah they are a lot like rabbits in that manner. Now my Redfoot is different, he's from a more tropical climate and needs lots of greens and fruits and vegetables. She can eat hay but doesn't get much nutrition from it.
Now my main problem is that while I can provide grasses and hays and fruits and veggies, I can't provide the foods in the natural habitat. Tortoises wander miles grazing on anything they can, even carrion. And since I don't live in their natural habitat I'm stuck on relying on what I can grow or have access to in order to provide a balanced diet.
But even I fall short no matter the buffet I offer. So I supplement their diets with Mazuri tortoise chow. They don't eat everyday like rabbits do, although they do get hay everyday but once every 2 weeks they get 3 or 4 Mazuri tortoise chow pellets. The reason is that the pellets have been formulated to give the tortoises what they need for sure. Now I don't keep them on a strictly pellet diet because they would get really fat and they need more fiber than the pellets can give them. But I find that the pellets are necessary in a limited quantity.
If you look at what wild rabbits eat you will see they also will graze constantly. They will eat whatever weed, grass, hay, flower, or tree bark they can get. Most of what they eat is high in fiber and fairly low in nutrition so they graze frequently. Spring there's more variety so they have more nutrient rich foods but in winter they might have nothing more than tree bark and some dried yellow grasses they've dug from under the snow. So if you wanted to provide a natural diet for your rabbit you would have to gather all kinds of weeds and grasses and hays and tree bark and flowers. In enough quantities to keep your rabbit fed and in enough variety so they get all of the vitamins and minerals they need.
Realistically this isn't going to happen unless you turn your rabbit loose in the yard and let the forage on their own and even then there's no sure way to make sure that they get access to the plants they need. And Domestics aren't made for living in the wild. Not to mention in winter they would probably starve. But thankfully we have vets and dieticians who have formulated an easily obtainable source of food for our critters. Pellets. Some are better than others so you still have to do your research but over all if you want a natural diet I would recommend that you at least supplement the diet with the pellets so that they don't lose out on important vitamins and minerals.
Pipp
Well-Known Member
Happi Bun wrote:
The policy here is to recommend variety and try our best to provide a 'natural' diet.
What people lose sight of, even with the interpretations from the HRS site, is different rabbits need different things, so the current trend of trying to micro-manage protein, calcium and other nutrients on a "one size fits all" basis is almost impossible.
You can not recommend x pellets per x pounds of body weight without taking into consideration the age, breed/physical attributes, brands and especially the rest of the diet.
Growing rabbits need extra protein and calcium, yes. Pellets really don't have to be the only source, although in a lot of cases they are out of convenience or necessity. Rabbits not being fed pellets have to eat a LOT of vegetation in terms of types and volume.
In the wild, more babies are born in the spring and it's spring grass and plants that have the higher levels of protein. (I love to see a study comparing the health of seasonal offspring, but that's another thread). Even aside from the breeding cycles, rabbits will have a rich diet in the summer and a lean one in the winter.
Even the bottom part of a hay stalk has more protein than the top part, and one field of hay can have substantially different nutrients than another. It also means that a diet of any one thing and/or from any one company, be it Oxbow or anybody else, may not be as good as a mix.
Misinterpretation leads to more problems than strict adherence to some 'rules.' Its far easier and safer to go for variety and make adjustments based on their development. If you have babies or breeds that tend towards obesity, cut back on pellets and/or switch from an alfalfa pellet to a timothy, or tinker with the hay and veggies. If have breeds (like long-haired rabbits) or thin, very active growing rabbits, they probably require more.
Large breeders have different requirements, they can't be making up big salads, finding tree bark and wildflowers, mixing up varieties of grasses and hays, etc, they need to pay more attention to the contents of their pellets and the development of their stock because pellets are the most balanced, economical and convenient food for their needs.
As rabbit science progresses, so does new information about certain diseases being caused by a misstep in commercial food or thoughts on rabbit care -- eg: for years nobody thought that rabbits needed more than nutritionally balanced pellets until dental disease became more common. Now the addition of hay is becoming the norm in rabbitries that previously fed pellets-only.
I'm sure other things will appear in time, pinpointing reasons for not-well-understood ailments like bladder sludge, stasis, etc., plaguing house rabbits, and the extent and effects of obesity.
Bottom line is that we should be more concerned with providing a varied diet. The chances that the rabbits will be getting a good balance of needed nutrients is much higher.
sas :bunnydance:
The policy here is to recommend variety and try our best to provide a 'natural' diet.
What people lose sight of, even with the interpretations from the HRS site, is different rabbits need different things, so the current trend of trying to micro-manage protein, calcium and other nutrients on a "one size fits all" basis is almost impossible.
You can not recommend x pellets per x pounds of body weight without taking into consideration the age, breed/physical attributes, brands and especially the rest of the diet.
Growing rabbits need extra protein and calcium, yes. Pellets really don't have to be the only source, although in a lot of cases they are out of convenience or necessity. Rabbits not being fed pellets have to eat a LOT of vegetation in terms of types and volume.
In the wild, more babies are born in the spring and it's spring grass and plants that have the higher levels of protein. (I love to see a study comparing the health of seasonal offspring, but that's another thread). Even aside from the breeding cycles, rabbits will have a rich diet in the summer and a lean one in the winter.
Even the bottom part of a hay stalk has more protein than the top part, and one field of hay can have substantially different nutrients than another. It also means that a diet of any one thing and/or from any one company, be it Oxbow or anybody else, may not be as good as a mix.
Misinterpretation leads to more problems than strict adherence to some 'rules.' Its far easier and safer to go for variety and make adjustments based on their development. If you have babies or breeds that tend towards obesity, cut back on pellets and/or switch from an alfalfa pellet to a timothy, or tinker with the hay and veggies. If have breeds (like long-haired rabbits) or thin, very active growing rabbits, they probably require more.
Large breeders have different requirements, they can't be making up big salads, finding tree bark and wildflowers, mixing up varieties of grasses and hays, etc, they need to pay more attention to the contents of their pellets and the development of their stock because pellets are the most balanced, economical and convenient food for their needs.
As rabbit science progresses, so does new information about certain diseases being caused by a misstep in commercial food or thoughts on rabbit care -- eg: for years nobody thought that rabbits needed more than nutritionally balanced pellets until dental disease became more common. Now the addition of hay is becoming the norm in rabbitries that previously fed pellets-only.
I'm sure other things will appear in time, pinpointing reasons for not-well-understood ailments like bladder sludge, stasis, etc., plaguing house rabbits, and the extent and effects of obesity.
Bottom line is that we should be more concerned with providing a varied diet. The chances that the rabbits will be getting a good balance of needed nutrients is much higher.
sas :bunnydance:
dixonsrabbitry1
Well-Known Member
OakRidgeRabbits wrote:
That is a good point. One thing you have to watch when feeding alfalfa pellets to young rabbits is the amount of alfalfa hay they are also getting at the same. And esp if its from the first cutting. Too much protein. Too rich= not a good thing. The bunny could end up with calcium problems. I have never heard of it causing problems in young rabbits, but that's not saying it can't happen though. That could be why some young rabbits will get bloat for no reason at all, and others don't. Then again it may not. I have never had a problem with babies gorging themselves on the feed. Then again I cut them off at a certain age too. Am always open to hearing the experiences of another breeder(or pet owner) when it comes to something like that.
Happi Bun
Well-Known Member
I agree Pipp, great post too. I'm now confused myself though. I always thought babies should be fed differently than adults. That they shouldn't be fed a lot of greens until they are older. Like my 3 month old Felix I'm just starting to introduce greens one at a time. I always thought babies are supposed to have unlimited pellets as well (along with hay), so that is what Felix has been getting.
Is this wrong? Should babies be getting more variety besides hay and pellets like the adults? Should I not be feeding unlimited alfalfa pellets to my 3 month old? He gets unlimited orchard grass too which I'm using instead of timothy because of his tiny mouth. He likes it a lot more too.
Maybe I should make a separate topic...
:lookaround
Is this wrong? Should babies be getting more variety besides hay and pellets like the adults? Should I not be feeding unlimited alfalfa pellets to my 3 month old? He gets unlimited orchard grass too which I'm using instead of timothy because of his tiny mouth. He likes it a lot more too.
Maybe I should make a separate topic...
:lookaround
dixonsrabbitry1
Well-Known Member
Happi Bun wrote:
How you are feeding your 3 month bunny is up to you. personally, if it were my rabbit, I would have cut her back by eight weeks. the only thing I would worry about is obesity. Even overfeeding a young rabbit like that can sometimes lead to a lot of problems. A fatty bunny would have a lot of loose fur and skin around the back of the neck and hind quarters. You would feel it just by running your hand from the shoulders, and over its back and hind quarters. If you feel a lot of loose skin, time to cut back on the pellets.
Another thing that is a plus is that you are able to monitor their feed intake a lot easier then being self fed. You want a happy, hungry bunny from one feeding to the next. And if that doesn't happen, then there may be a problem.
I dunno I feed all my babies and adults fibre 3 pellets and hay. They all do just fine. they do get treats and grass now and then. I do know babies shouldn't be introduced to fresh foods until their digestive systems are able to handle them. That's IF they are able to handle them.
How you are feeding your 3 month bunny is up to you. personally, if it were my rabbit, I would have cut her back by eight weeks. the only thing I would worry about is obesity. Even overfeeding a young rabbit like that can sometimes lead to a lot of problems. A fatty bunny would have a lot of loose fur and skin around the back of the neck and hind quarters. You would feel it just by running your hand from the shoulders, and over its back and hind quarters. If you feel a lot of loose skin, time to cut back on the pellets.
Another thing that is a plus is that you are able to monitor their feed intake a lot easier then being self fed. You want a happy, hungry bunny from one feeding to the next. And if that doesn't happen, then there may be a problem.
OakRidgeRabbits
Well-Known Member
Happi Bun wrote:
No, I do not feed unlimited pellets at any age except maybe older adults who have trouble keeping weight. Like I said, digestive illness isn't uncommon in a young system, so I like to push extra fiber. I try to give the rabbit enough pellets that they will clean them up within a few hours and then offer lots of hay. I see a lot less "poopy butt" with this diet, whereas if my babies get too many pellets, I'll occasionally see that.
I know the topic of diets can be confusing because on another post, I just posted that pellet-only diets can fine. Then on here, I say that I push fiber. But it largely depends on the situation. Rabbits can do well on many, many different diets, and options are not limited. This is only what I suggest and use myself.
This is where personal opinions vary, but I generally suggest that rabbits under 6 months old be fed a diet that is mainly pellets and hay. During this time, the rabbit is still growing and the body is going through a lot of changes. Varying the diet too much can easily upset their system. Digestive illness is not uncommon in younger rabbits, especially weanlings, so I stick to the basics plus oats and have had little trouble with that.
No, I do not feed unlimited pellets at any age except maybe older adults who have trouble keeping weight. Like I said, digestive illness isn't uncommon in a young system, so I like to push extra fiber. I try to give the rabbit enough pellets that they will clean them up within a few hours and then offer lots of hay. I see a lot less "poopy butt" with this diet, whereas if my babies get too many pellets, I'll occasionally see that.
I know the topic of diets can be confusing because on another post, I just posted that pellet-only diets can fine. Then on here, I say that I push fiber.
But it largely depends on the situation. Rabbits can do well on many, many different diets, and options are not limited. This is only what I suggest and use myself.dixonsrabbitry1
Well-Known Member
Happi Bun wrote:
BTW if you like to give your rabbit a little more variety, try a little bit of free ranging. By that I don't mean turning it loose. Just get yourself a nice dog cage, and set it up in the yard, and let it play and graze. Just be sure its supervised. A great way to give the rabbit a little more variety, and it gets it out of the cage. Just make sure there are no chemicals on the lawn, or pretty flowers mixed in the grass, other then dandelions. Some of them can be toxic. I start grazing mine when are too big to fit through the cage bars.
Pipp
Well-Known Member
Happi Bun wrote:
A lot of the problems with feeding babies veggies is if they've never had them before. As a rule pet stores and breeders can't be counted on to have fed greens to the mothers or babies. I think that rabbits tolerate food that their mothers eat and what they got in the nestbox, but don't take well to sudden changes.
The general recommendations these days say give babies a variety of foods including bits of veggies and grass in the nestbox. Easier said than done.
EDITED: I think starting with bits of grass and veggies at anytime is okay, the key I think is small volume and a slow conversion. I'd like to hear more experiences on this.
The problem with unlimited pellets as noted is that while the baby bunny needs the protein and calcium, they will gorge themselves to the exclusion of other food. Cutting back on pellets is fine if the nutrition is available elsewhere.
I didn't point out in my previous post is the importance of balancing diet with activity levels and exercise. A caged rabbit in single story housing is going to be more prone to obesity than a free run rabbit or one in a multi-level condo and will need different diet tweaks. When a breeder talks about babies getting obese, that may not hold true for others.
PS: Bloat is a real mystery. It may be viral, a quirk in their GI tracts, an overdose of a particular nutrient or something entirely different. I'd love another thread on that one!
sas :bunnydance:
A lot of the problems with feeding babies veggies is if they've never had them before. As a rule pet stores and breeders can't be counted on to have fed greens to the mothers or babies. I think that rabbits tolerate food that their mothers eat and what they got in the nestbox, but don't take well to sudden changes.
The general recommendations these days say give babies a variety of foods including bits of veggies and grass in the nestbox. Easier said than done.
EDITED: I think starting with bits of grass and veggies at anytime is okay, the key I think is small volume and a slow conversion. I'd like to hear more experiences on this.
The problem with unlimited pellets as noted is that while the baby bunny needs the protein and calcium, they will gorge themselves to the exclusion of other food. Cutting back on pellets is fine if the nutrition is available elsewhere.
I didn't point out in my previous post is the importance of balancing diet with activity levels and exercise. A caged rabbit in single story housing is going to be more prone to obesity than a free run rabbit or one in a multi-level condo and will need different diet tweaks. When a breeder talks about babies getting obese, that may not hold true for others.
PS: Bloat is a real mystery. It may be viral, a quirk in their GI tracts, an overdose of a particular nutrient or something entirely different. I'd love another thread on that one!
sas :bunnydance:
TinysMom
Well-Known Member
dixonsrabbitry1 wrote:
Just make sure that there is no fertilizer or other chemicals used on the grass. I'm saying this for folks who might think they can take their bunnies to the park...
Pipp
Well-Known Member
Good points from DR about identifying obese rabbits. They don't always appear to look fat because the fat goes to the skin and organs.
Also be aware about the differences in the words 'vegetation' and 'veggies'. Hay, grass, dandelion, etc. is vegetation. If a baby is eating that diet, its not much of a stretch to talk about feeding bits of carrot top or parsley, but coming from a pellet-only diet, it may be pretty drastic.
sas :bunnydance:
Also be aware about the differences in the words 'vegetation' and 'veggies'. Hay, grass, dandelion, etc. is vegetation. If a baby is eating that diet, its not much of a stretch to talk about feeding bits of carrot top or parsley, but coming from a pellet-only diet, it may be pretty drastic.
sas :bunnydance:
Sarah93
Well-Known Member
Wow...a lot of responses in a short amount of time...
you all have such valid points!
And I meant 1/3 now and then 1/4 when they get older...I just got them switched, I know 1/3 is bigger
Well...I think until they're about four months old I'm going to just give them unlimited pellets with fresh grass & dandelions/dandelion flowers.
And then after their four months old I'll cut it down to 1/3 and after six months I'll cut it down to 1/4.
And right now should I start introducing veggies?
I gave them a plate of veggies and some apple that I shouldnt have...but it didnt hurt them as far as I could tell.
Should I start with mixing a little lettuce into their grass, then adding like two baby carrots, then later adding a little bit of apple...extra...
How long should I introduce one portion before adding on the next?
Should I do this now or wait until their four or six months old?
Also they're lionheads and they're about 9 weeks old.
you all have such valid points!
And I meant 1/3 now and then 1/4 when they get older...I just got them switched, I know 1/3 is bigger
Well...I think until they're about four months old I'm going to just give them unlimited pellets with fresh grass & dandelions/dandelion flowers.
And then after their four months old I'll cut it down to 1/3 and after six months I'll cut it down to 1/4.
And right now should I start introducing veggies?
I gave them a plate of veggies and some apple that I shouldnt have...but it didnt hurt them as far as I could tell.
Should I start with mixing a little lettuce into their grass, then adding like two baby carrots, then later adding a little bit of apple...extra...
How long should I introduce one portion before adding on the next?
Should I do this now or wait until their four or six months old?
Also they're lionheads and they're about 9 weeks old.
elrohwen
Well-Known Member
I would start out with one green at a time - so give them grass for a week before adding grass plus dandelions. Then do that for a week before adding anything new. Some rabbits are sensitive to certain greens, so doing it one at a time will give their tummies time to adjust and allow you to see if anything in particular gives them poopy butt. Much easier to do this than to get poopy butt later and have no idea why.
Sarah93
Well-Known Member
Yeah for sure
Well I've given them dandelions once, they seem to like it fine.
I got them on Tuesday and started giving them grass.
So I'll start giving them dandelions more on Wednesday and then start some more lettuce next wednesday?
Well I've given them dandelions once, they seem to like it fine.
I got them on Tuesday and started giving them grass.
So I'll start giving them dandelions more on Wednesday and then start some more lettuce next wednesday?
elrohwen
Well-Known Member
Sounds good. Just give them small amounts slowly since they're so young.
