What colours/patterns to start with?

[Sabine]

I have been looking into getting some Rhinelanders to breed and maybe show. The way things are going I may have to import them from Germany once I've figured out or the airline's rules and regulations etc...
I have joined a German breeders forum and learned that it is actually illigeal to cross broken x broken as the resulting charlies (funnily enough they call them chaplins) are not viable.
When I was researching into breeding broken lops a while back on the forum nobody mentioned any problems with charlies except that they are not desirable for show.
I am just wondering if I started with one properly marked Rhinelander and a solid colour animal I wouldn't produce any charlies and if I kept mating the solids with the brokens wouldn't the pattern get darker and darker and in the end totally disappear. Rhinelanders are also tricoloured so would the brown markings disappear? Should I use a harliquin as well? Does it even make sense to start with two animals only?
And one last question: Is this problem with non-viable charlies peculiar to brokens with a dotted pattern rather than a blanket pattern?
I'd really appreciate advice.
Thanks, Sabine

 

[Blaze_Amita]

if Rhinelanders are anything like English spots(They remind me of tri colot English spots) then they can produce solid babies from two finely marked parents.
A friend of mine breeds the english spots and she has a couple of very nice marked bucks and her does range from a couple of solids to very lightly marked and she's produced babies in the whole spectrum in one litter (SOlid, heavy marked, nice marked and lightly marked). She does very well with a majority of the does on the show table but some are just not good breeders for throwing the nicer mareked babies.

and not always will you produce charlies when crossing broken to broken. I've crossed two broken hollands-same paring twice- and ended with only one charlie out of 6 kits. and i've also bred the same broken buck to a solid doe that produced a dilute, it does have to work with their backgrounds as well. the buck, used for all three of the above holland litters, has a bew grandfather.

 

[pamnock]

I judged Rhinelanders ata show this weekend. A very challenging, but beautiful breed!

Pam

 

[Sabine]

I guess they are rather ambitious for a novice but i've my heart set on them. That's why I am doing a lot of research beforehand so that I don't end up messing up the pattern or other features due to ignorance

 

[Blaze_Amita]

once i wean out of hollands i want to get a trio of rhinelanders. i've had my eyes on them for a while, and boy was i envious when cin got her spots(Of coarse i bought her River and Gaits, her first pair)
Best of luck! I haven't had alot of luck finding breeders anywhere near me- i'll probably have to have them shipped in

 

[Demismith]

If you bred a broken with a broken you would get some selfs, some charlies and some brokens. The selfs and charlies can't be shown, but they can be used for breeding. If you breed a charlie with a self, all babies will be broken.

PS. Breeding broken x broken isn't illegal :S You just wouldn't be able to show some of the babies. There are rhinelander breeders in the uk, have you tried the BRC?

 

[Demismith]

Well marked english spots and rhinelanders are 'broken' patterned.

Your best bet is to get two rhinelanders, either both broken or one charlie and one self.

 

[Sabine]

Apparently it is forbidden in some breeders associations in Germany. reason being that the resulting charlies would be less likely to survive. It is news to me as well but I am sure they are not making it up and there is some sort of a reason why Rhinelanders are different from ordinary brokens/butterfly.
I have contacted the one breeder registered with the BRC and heard nothing back. As the Rhinelander is originated in Germany there seem to be many more clubs and breeders specializing in them.
I am just intrigued what makes them genetically different from other brokens.

 

[pamnock]

The rhinelander is genetically a broken harlequin - the spotting is produced by the same gene in all brokens. Charlies in any breed can be more prone to maga colon.

Pam

 

[Sabine]

Is maga colon more likely to occur if they are being linebred?As I won't have an abundance of animals available there will be a certain amount of inbreeding like offspring to parent. Should I avoid the risk of producing charlies?

 

[Demismith]

I never knew about health defects in charlies. It's only a pattern on the fur.

Anyway, did the BRC say there was only one person they knew of breeding Rhinelanders? I know there is one that takes a few to shows in Yorkshire

 

[Demismith]

If you didn't want charlies, you could breed charlie to self or broken to self.

 

[Sabine]

There is a guy called Simon Vizard from Wiltshire that's the only one in the breeder's directory. That's surely not the same person?

 

[Demismith]

No, I don't think it is the same.
Was the breeders directory on the site or did you ring up?

 

[Demismith]

And if you want, I can give you the links to three popular uk breeder/shower forums. I'm sure they will know someone

 

[Sabine]

Yes it was from the directory. I did register for rabbit talk uk but find it desperately slow for responses. Not being a breeder yet also means I can't access loads of sections there.

 

[Demismith]

My advice is to ring up the BRC and ask them. The site is cr*p, and hardly ever updated, you wont find anything there.

I have access to the rabbit talk uk sections, so I'll ask for you I'm a member of two others too.

Are you just looking for a Rhinelander breeder anywhere in the uk?

And also, someone called Phil Batey has imported lots of rabbits from Holland. I'm not sure how popular Rhinelanders are over there, but it's worth a try.

 

[Demismith]

My advice is to ring up the BRC and ask them. The site is cr*p, and hardly ever updated, you wont find anything there.

I have access to the rabbit talk uk sections, so I'll ask for you I'm a member of two others too.

Are you just looking for a Rhinelander breeder anywhere in the uk?

And also, someone called Phil Batey has imported lots of rabbits from Holland. I'm not sure how popular Rhinelanders are over there, but it's worth a try.

 

[Demismith]

I found your post on the other forum, did you ever try the RVRC secretary?

 

[Sabine]

If I found a breeder in the UK preferably not too far up North that would of course be easier If you could ask on my behalf that would be great.
I can't even remember when I posted what on Rabbit talk as I found it totally frustrating not getting replies for ages
What does RVRC stand for?