What am I doing wrong?

[bunnychips]

Hi, my kids and I have been breeding rabbits from about a year. We've invested in several really nice Holland Lops from all over. All the rabbits are healthy, friendly, happy, and well fed. We feed Mana Pro (R/W/B Bag it's Pro or Sho) timothy hay, no treats. They are nice cages, all doe cages have babywire installed, hanging cages, in a nice shady area that gets a cross breeze. I feed 4oz a day and timothy when ever they are out. I worm them (not when preggo). They always have fresh clean water and on super hot days I have a whole freezer full of abouit 30 frozen 2L for them. They get brushed, thier nails get clipped...basically they are well cared for. I feed within the same 2hour window evernight.

So what am I doing wrong???? I can't get a live litter. When the does aren't missing...frustrating but when it's hot who can blame them...but when they do the kits are always dead.

I put the nestbox (I have several nestboxes...solid bottom, wire bottom, wood, metal all different) in 3-4 days before she's due with nice soft coastal hay...also the hay hasn't been from the same place or same bale with each litter so it's not the hay.

I've had one doe eat her babies, one sit on them while having another and crush them, one had them 5 days early so I know they probley wouldn't have lived anyway, one had 2 stillborn, and just tonight one had three in the box but didn't pull hair...all three were dead. I did everything I could trying to warm them up bc she pulled most of the hay out of the box. One was still in the sac of liquid...one was for sure a peanut...but one was trying the breath.

Is it really this hard to breed Hollands or any rabbit for that matter. I just don't understand and am so beside myself that I don't know what to do. I'm a married, college educated mother so it's not like I haven't read and read and read all I could and do everything the way "I'm told"...but I must be missing something bc I can't imagine this is normal or is it? I have does as old as 3, some 1, and some just tunred SR's (haven't bred). Some have been great mothers (I was told anyway) at other barns, some are first timers.

At this point my kids and I confused and heart broken. Like I mentioned we have nice rabbits...other long time breeders that have seen our buns have told me we have alot nicer than alot of people start out with. All are pedigreed and from breeders that show and do well at ARBA shows.

I just don't get it. Most miss which I get like I said with the heat but what is up with all the dead kits?

Really any help, advice, tips, anything would be wonderful. We're not looking to become the rabbit version of a puppy mill but we've worked hard to get good stock and would like to have some with our suffix on the to show as wel as sell. I have the space and means to house and feed any kits that we didn't sell and then some.

Thank you so much in advance!

 

[Blaze_Amita]

I'm not sure what to say, I know there are sucessful breeders in FL, so heat can't be the whole problem. Are they outside in the open so to speak? could cats be getting up there and making the momma's nervous? WIth the first timers, i would re-breed them. I gave my holland does 3 chances to take and produce a live litter and then moved them to pet homes if they did not. I got in this one doe from a local breeder that couldn't get her to take, she was almost a year old and the lady said, if you want her, you can take her and try to breed her, i can't get a litter out of her. so i brought her home, settled her in and on teh third attempt, she produced a nice litter! I still have one of her sons. I called that breeder back and told her, I've got my baby out of her, she raises babies very well now that she knows what she is doing, did you want her back? I gave her back and she's still producing very nice babies. the only thing we both thought was change of scenery.

 

[majorv]

Just my thoughts, but heat can be a big problem.We learned that the hard way, and I don't think Florida summers are much different than what we get on the Texas Gulf Coast - hot and humid. If you've been trying for a year, how many litters did you lose in the summer vs the cool months?

 

[bunnychips]

I've only been breeding for about 6months...at first all I had was Jr's so I didn't have anything to breed earlier.

I bought some Sr does...about a year old to 4 and that's what I've been working with. 4 does in total plus one ND we no longer own that had a the 2 stillborn her first litter.

Doe #1 is a year and a few months...1 litter, first time Momma, had three sat on two in the front of the nestbox while having the third in the back. I literally saw the third one born so I know she sat on them.

Doe #2 is alsoa year and a few months...missed twice (same buck) rebred to different buck that produced litter from doe #1 and she had2 I found all over the wire and half eaten...this was her first litter ever as well. Re-bred and she had them 5 days early...I keep very detailed records so I now when she was bred and I checked and double checked the dates so I know for a fact she was early. There is no way she could have been with a buck without my knowledge...not her through the wire as all my bucks are housed in a totally separate "bachelor pad". They aren't just separated by wire they are separated by wire and a good 50-75 feet. At least she didn't eat them this time...I'm thinking it was a fluke so am trying for her third strike.

Doe #3 is approaching 4 so I'm not holding my breath on her and expect her to miss but she's a nice doe, with nice type so it's worth it to keep trying. I am not so much bothered by her missing as I do understand with the age it may be harder to get her bred. She has produced many litters at her former home.

Doe #4 is 2 and has produced litters and even fostered them. She has missed a total of three times and she is the one that had the litter the other nite. No hair pulled, one baby still in the bag of water, one peanut, and one all red and funky looking.

So out of 5 does not counting the misses bc I chalked them up to the heat our stats are 1 live kit and 12 dead. The odds just seem horrible to me and I'm anal about their care so am perplexed at what is going so wrong. It's not like they are alive then die...they just aren't alive at all. Could it really be just bc their new mommas? Hopefully as the weather cools and these does figure how how to do this it will bring better news. The blood and stuff doesn't bother me I've had horses give birth, kittens, and puppies, way back when in addition to going through childbirth several times myself so I can handle that aspect of it all...the death is just breaking my heart and as I bred these rabbits I can't help but feel responsible when they are dead.

I don't think catsare an issue. We have cats but they don'tseem to pay the rabbits any mind...but just in case we made the cages so the rabbits are very high...suspended in their cages and basically set far enough back with enough of an overhang to prevent anything from so much as touching the cage. We planned it this way.

This will be my first breedings in the cool month so I have nothing to compare hot vs cool months. I know breeders here in FL and it's seems hit or miss with the breeders with them outdoors and the breeders with indoor rabbitries do much better from what I've seen and been told. It's not impossible to have hot weather babies but seems easier for all involved to have an indoor rabbitry.



It has been hot as heck here...over the summer it can easily sit around the upper 90's with some days in the low 100's. We don't get the breeze off the ocean where we are so it's just hot.

I won't breed next summer that's for sure...just to hot.I have several just turned Sr's that I bred so we'll see what happens with them. I'm just not willy nilly about this and have invested in good stock that I care for and about so it's hard to understand all this when you'll have people not givinga crap and basically pushing out bunnies left and right like it's nothing. We're breeding to ARBA standards and not just to get kits. We're trying to produce buns to show. I know that most won't be show quality but that's what we're working towards anyway.

 

[hillrise]

Rabbits can stress out from just about anything--even rowdy kids, so even if you thought you designed the cages so that the cats can't bother them, it might not be enough.

One thought that came to mind regarding the sat on babies is: how big are your nest boxes? If they're too big, the momma's might be hanging out in the nest box with the babies, which poses the danger for trampling.

Sorry you're having such terrible luck...

 

[majorv]

Again, just my thoughts here, but I think the heat may be the culprit (or much of it)with the proven does. Age is a big factor with the 4 year old. The first time mom who's just over a year could be a combination of heat,age and being a first timer.

Yes, our summers are the same. I have a Himalayan doe, proven, who gave birth when it was hot...wethought we were safebreeding her inearly April, but it suddenly turned hotjust a couple days before she gave birth. I put fans on her, but I stillfound 3 trampled andtwo alive. Heat will stress out a doe, and I know breeders who've lost doesbecause they kindled in the heat. If it were me, I'd try them all again when the weather is cooler and then decide.

 

[woahlookitsme]

Also a little help. Any doe needs to have at least one litter BEFORE turning 1 year old. We have bred one as close as 11mos and she still took (her mom was a really fertile rabbit). I'm not sure the science behind this but have yet to find it as false information. After 1 year old does usually dont take or have still borns.

We've experienced success even if the whole litter doesnt make it, it still counts as long as they were born alive.

 

[CCWelch]

May be heat, may be overfeeding or too high of protein with the Manna Pro--Are the manna pro the regular rabbit pellets or the calf pellets? It could be a vitamin E deficiency.

Check the pellet bag, if it does not say rabbit food then it likely is missing nutrients needed by the rabbits.

Try giving them Wheat Germ oil for a couple weeks before breeding again a quarter tsp. daily with their rations. Then continue it throughout the breeding season.
Also try some fresh green leafy vegetables, some of the vitamins in pellets are better utilized fresh rather than dried. Romaine Lettuce and spinach are good choices along with parsley.

Good Luck, I am having problems getting litters at all right now because my bucks went sterile in the heat, my girls are getting too much time off.

 

[CCWelch]

Are they on self feeders or do you measure their rations? Try decreasing their ration a little also, a slightly skinny rabbit tends to carry and birth litters better than one that is a little heavier.

 

[Brittany85]

I would say your does are too old. Try getting younger does, around 6 months and start breeding at this age. Dwarf breeds mature quickly and are at 'optimal' breeding age at this time.
Also you could just have found some "bad moms" unfortunately.
My advice would be find them all pet homes and look for younger does or does who are still young but had litters before successfully.
You could also try keeping them inside.

 

[The Haven Rabbitry]

Are you using the same buck for all these does???

 

[woahlookitsme]

If they are this could also contribute to your situation
- if you breed him to much his sperm is less viable and concentrated. I think from A&P it takes 24hrs for sperm to complete the full cycle/maturation through the testes.

- it could be him and not the does fault. maybe his genetics dont match with any of your does (less unlikely but still possible) using different bucks and having healthy litters would prove this true