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iLuvMyLilBuns

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Joined
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Location
MN, Minnesota, USA
I have 4 rabbits, I keep them outside year round and I've never had problems, I've never had a rabbit that was sick or have a rabbit die. I have a male Holland lop his name is Basil he turned 3 years old in June and I just got him last May. He's lived outside the whole time I've had him but recently I put him in my garage, I've had them in my garage before and I have a carbon monoxide detector, so anyways just recently a friend of mine wanted to breed her doe with Basil and he wouldn't breed so she put him in with one of my other bucks. All my other rabbits are acting normal so I don't think this is because of that, but just recently I noticed him eating less. He had a normal waterbottle and he drank from it all the time but it would always freeze so I put in a heated waterbottle that waterbottle has a different end to drink out of than his regular waterbottle. I put the heated waterbottle in on Friday and there isn't like any water gone from it, all of my other rabbits have adjusted to the heated water bottle so I just assumed he would. I feed him unlimited hay, I give him about 1/2 cup of pen pals 16% pellets and I occasionally give him veggies.

I haven't given him vegetables in a few days and I've noticed he hasn't really ate his pellets. I put in his old water bottle to see if he is acting this way because he is dehydrated but he hasn't drank from it. I also gave him some red leaf lettuce, slice of an apple, and slice of a banana and he ate it right away.

I just assumed he hasn't been eating much because he hasn't been very active lately, he hasn't been out of his cage much because his playpen is outside and its cold and I haven't brought him out to play in a while. I don't want to bring him inside to play because of the temperature difference. He's always been a calmer rabbit, really small and just different than my other rabbits but he would always eat right away so his behavior now just seems weird. He seems sickly like skinny and sad like he doesn't have energy. I weighed him when I first got him and he was just under 3 lbs and I picked him up today and he just seems scrawny and I weighed him. He's about 2 lbs 3 oz. All of my other Holland lops are well over 3 lbs so this weight doesn't seem normal, and he just seems like he doesn't want to do anything. I've had rabbits for about 4 years and I've never experienced this so any advice would be great, the nearest vet that specializes in rabbits is almost 2 hours away so I can only bring him to the vet if this is really serious.

Maybe I'm just paranoid but I feel like he is sick or something. The attached picture is Basil in May but I can post a picture of what he looks like now if you would like.

Thanks!

photo (5).jpg
 
Rabbits won't eat if they don't have water, And more than a day without water could be enough to put a bun into GI stasis(blockage). A rabbit that is dehydrated, won't have energy and will act lethargic. If he doesn't understand how to drink from the new bottle, you need to teach him how to drink from it and ensure he can get water from it before taking his other water away, or offer him a water dish.

If he's not eating and not pooping, then he could have a blockage and needs to go to the vet. If he is eating some on his own and still pooping, you need to keep him eating and get him hydrated, even if you need to syringe water slowly to him, . You may even need to give some electrolytes, like plain children's Pedialyte. Three days is an awfully long time for a rabbit to be without water, and still be alive. Once he's hydrated, his gut is moving again, and he's feeling better, he should start eating normally again, unless another health problem is causing issues.

If the weight loss was occurring before the change of water bottles and not drinking, there could be something else going on. Was he eating normally before this happened? Dental problems, parasites, and kidney issues are just a few causes for weight loss. You could try deworming, but the other more serious health problems will require taking him to the vet. Another possibility is he's not getting enough food, especially with it being winter. Rabbits need more food to maintain their weight in the cold. You could try increasing pellets a little, but if he's had a decreased appetite, then another health problem is causing the weight loss and increasing food won't help and he'll need to see the vet.

http://www.rabbitnetwork.org/articles/weightloss.shtml
 
I gave him a big bowl of veggies that are rinsed with water he also has a bowl of water plus is normal water bottle and heated water bottle but the water will probably freeze soon. I give him unlimited hay and 1/2 cup of pellets and he hasn't touched those. I just recently gave him the heated water bottle so he used to have just a normal water bottle so he had limited water because it would freeze but I always tried to fill it up as occasionally as I could. He's lost around a pound he's about 2 lbs. He feels scrawny, boney, and overall just looks and feels sick. He doesn't seem to have a lot of energy. I don't know how or why he would of lost this much weight, do you think he has a disease? Or is this all just because he was dehydrated. He was wheezing and sneezing and I feel like something is very wrong with him, I don't know how soon I can get him to the vet so any suggestions on what I should do at this point would be great, and please let me know if I'm overreacting because I don't mean to

Thanks!
 
"I just assumed he hasn't been eating much because he hasn't been very active lately, he hasn't been out of his cage much because his playpen is outside and its cold and I haven't brought him out to play in a while. I don't want to bring him inside to play because of the temperature difference."

Excuse my ignorance but is there a reason you don't want to bring him inside to see if you get him more active he will drink and eat more? Have you bought him in to play other times when it's been cold and he's been inactive?

I see your in MN and it's a heck of a lot colder there than it is here in the DC area, but I've got my Holland lop inside, and the large bunny I have Brooke that sleeps on the porch in a play pen with a heater--

I mean your having to deal with their drinking water freezing so there is vast differences in temp from here to there... all in all (and I know this is driving my husband nuts) but I've got 4 chihuahua's in the house now and 4 rabbits and I don't live in a mansion. I'm in a small house built in 1933 that is less than 900 square feet..

and I have friends here who are originally from MN and I have to be honest with temps getting in International Falls like around -56 F, and with how the mid west has been dealing with more than 13 days of subfreezing temps out there from ND to Michigan..My hats off to you all that live out that way and in Buffalo also.. I'm a wussy and have dealt with the blizzards and what not that we have had here in the DC Maryland area..but I would rather deal with heat than cold.. that's just me.

For me personally if it's a temp that I could not sleep outside comfortably with fur or no fur, I'm not putting the dogs or the bunnies out there -- and even as I type this I have 4 chihuahua's fighting for the heat vents for the hot air..and it's a balmy 29 F right now.

My mom and dad however thought different as they grew up in South Carolina in the depression and all animals were outside, but there is a 20-40 degree temp difference between DC and South Carolina and most if not all the animals were for food not pets.. Sorry for rambling... I hope he gets a bit more active and puts some weight on...
 
Yes the reason I don't want to bring him inside is because the temperature difference, his body is not used to the temperature that our house is. I did decide to bring him inside to take a closer look at him but he is back in my garage. If you do research you will realize that rabbits can survive in very cold temperatures just fine. If they get wet or are in the wind that is what they cannot handle. I highly doubt this problem is because he is cold so i find it rude of you telling me to bring him inside because I've raised rabbits for years and I have NEVER had a rabbit freeze to death. It's a rabbit, they adjust to cold temperatures. Sorry for my ranting but I do care about my rabbit a lot and they are very well cared for. I personally feel it would not be wise of me to bring him in my house because of the big temperature change but if you all think I should bring him inside I guess I will?? Any advice on what I should do would appreciate. He has plenty of food and water I feel like he has a disease or something because all of my other rabbits are acting normal and playful.
 
I think bringing him to the vet is the best option at this point. Then you'll know for sure what's wrong and can go forward from that point. Hope he'll be okay:)
 
If the proper precautions are taken, there is nothing wrong with keeping a rabbit outdoors. As long as the temps aren't too severe, rabbits can adjust to the cold weather well if they have been outdoors and have gradually got used to the cooler weather. Plus there's the fact that your rabbits are protected in your garage.

It might be a good idea to try bringing him inside for now. When a rabbit is ill and not eating much, their body temperature can drop. When they have a decreased temperature, it makes them more susceptible to illness, plus they won't eat well when their body temperature has dropped. I would suggest just bringing him in to see how his body temperature is. Keep checking on him and see if he warms up. If his ears are cold even in your house, I would suggest keeping him inside and help warm him up if he seems chilled. If he warms up on his own, and his ears start getting too warm then it's likely he is maintaining his body temperature well and should be ok in your garage. But you'll want to do this closely monitoring his temp. You certainly don't want him overheating either. Also see if his behavior changes at all when you bring him indoors.

What really concerns me is the wheezing and sneezing. He could very well have a upper respiratory infection. Does he seem to have any difficulty breathing(raising his head) or any colored discharge? This combined with the weight loss problems could indicate a serious problem. A three pound rabbit losing a whole pound, is very significant. I think he really needs to be seen by a vet right away.
 
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I will see if I can bring him to the vet sometime soon

From the symptoms you've mentioned it seems like he should be seen by a vet ASAP. When rabbits are ill, a person unfortunately doesn't have a lot of time to ponder. He seems possibly quite ill and things could go downhill quickly. I'm not trying to sound pushy or to scare you but if it were me, I would have him at the vet today or as soon a clinic was open.

Best of luck:)
 
Thanks for replying! I decided to bring him inside and he is in my room so I can keep an eye on him. He is drinking out of a bowl and has nibbled a bit at his veggies but he really hasn't ate much. He's been moving around but I noticed his face is wet and his chest, maybe that is from drinking out of a bowl but I'm not sure. I will probably bring him to the vet tomorrow if I can.
 
I would definitely get him to the vet as soon as you can - it sounds like he's at risk for developing GI stasis or may even be in the early stages of it. The vet should give him metacam and a motility drug to get his digestive system moving properly (and will presumably also investigate the underlying cause).

Yes the reason I don't want to bring him inside is because the temperature difference, his body is not used to the temperature that our house is. I did decide to bring him inside to take a closer look at him but he is back in my garage. If you do research you will realize that rabbits can survive in very cold temperatures just fine. If they get wet or are in the wind that is what they cannot handle.

Yup. Heat is definitely the more dangerous temperature extreme; a dry bunny protected from drafts and winds can be comfortable in surprisingly low temperatures.

Should a house bunny go (and stay) outdoors in brutal winter temperatures? Hell, no. They could easily freeze to death in the temperatures iLuvMyLilBuns experiences because their body is accustomed to climate control. A rabbit that lived outdoors all fall as the temperatures gradually dropped, however, will have grown a MUCH thicker winter coat than an indoor bunny - this is what allows them to thrive even in winter temperatures that would be way too extreme for a house bunn.

An outdoor bunny who has grown a heavy enough coat to withstand such cold weather isn't prepared for indoor temperatures any more than an indoor bunny is prepared for the freezing cold outside temps. That thick coat that protects from the cold makes them vulnerable to heat stroke and such at much lower temperatures than usual - in a house that's comfortably warm by human standards (60-70F, for example), an outdoor bunny accustomed to below zero temperatures could very easily require the sort of cooling methods people use on outdoor bunns in the summer (a cold water bottle, misting their ears, etc.) just to prevent overheating.

While it's ok to bring an outdoor bunny inside during a cold winter, you definitely have to be very careful and often have to keep the house cooler than usual and take other precautions.
 
Hi there, I was NOT trying to be rude, which is why I wrote I take my hat off to you all in colder climates for being out there...
I'm sorry if you took it that way, and which is why I prefaced it with for me personally if I could not .... not saying it was for you.. So therefore I'm sorry if I insulted you or caused you to think I doubted your ability to take care of your animals.

I hope that he's better and if you are able to get him to the vet and find out if he has something more serious going on with his health..

Take care
 
An outdoor bunny who has grown a heavy enough coat to withstand such cold weather isn't prepared for indoor temperatures any more than an indoor bunny is prepared for the freezing cold outside temps.

I am curious about what this is actually based on...
 
Basil is still in my bedroom, I've been watching him closely today and he's ate veggies, and a little bit of pellets. He seems to be drinking A LOT of water from his bowl. He also had loose stools today I'm not sure if it is diarrhea. I can probably bring him to the vet on Thursday or Friday, I have no idea what's wrong with him! He isn't acting normal & he just seems so skinny.
 
At this point veggies are probably not a good idea based in the diarrhea. He should be offered hay. Once again I would just like to stress that based on the symptoms you're describing, he needs to see a vet immediately...not Thursday or Friday. Rabbits aren't like other animals that can tolerate being sick over a long period of time. When a rabbit gets sick, you have to act very quickly. Is there a reason why you can't get him to the vet any sooner? Do you have a rabbit savvy vet in your area? If you're going to put off taking him to the vet then you have to be willing to intervene on your own with administering appropriate meds/critical care(whatever some of the more experienced RO members suggest doing). I don't have enough experience to give you medical advice.
 
An outdoor bunny who has grown a heavy enough coat to withstand such cold weather isn't prepared for indoor temperatures any more than an indoor bunny is prepared for the freezing cold outside temps.
I am curious about what this is actually based on...

I wasn't correlating the *degrees* of un-preparedness, mind you, simply using a general comparison to illustrate my point that you can't just bring an outdoor bunny used to below-zero temperatures into a house that has central heat with the mindset that the temperature indoors is completely safe for them. My point was that it's dangerous to take a house bunny out in freezing winter weather and it's dangerous to bring an outdoor rabbit from freezing temps to a heated indoor environment.

Bunnies have exactly two ways to regulate their body temperature - growing an appropriate coat for the climate they live in (which happens seasonally when they go through a molt) and their ears (which can only do so much to counteract overheating).

A human accustomed to climate control can go out in 100F+ temperatures for an hour or two reasonably safely because of how effective sweating is at regulating body temperatures (assuming one drinks enough fluids to stay properly hydrated). It may not be particularly comfortable (god knows I hate summer afternoons with the fire of a thousand suns, as I get warm very easily and thrive in cold temperatures), but it doesn't kill me to be outdoors on brutally hot days just because I'm used to a steady 75F (and wish it were more like 65-70F :p). Also, we don't really adapt seasonally to the climate like animals do because we use clothes as our main way of adjusting.

A bunny accustomed to climate control, by contrast, becomes susceptible to heatstroke at temperatures above 80F because their ears don't "give off" heat nearly as effectively (plus, humans can sweat everywhere on their body while bunnies ears have comparatively little surface area). The more heat their body naturally tries to retain (through a thicker coat, for example), the more they have to try to get rid of... meaning the temperature at which their ears can no longer keep up is lower. You'd get overheated much more easily too if you dressed for below zero weather (a really heavy winter coat, multiple layers, snow pants, heavy gloves, a scarf, a hat, etc.) and then lounged around in a heated house all day.

Another thing that affects their ability to counteract heat is their ear type/style. Wild bunnies native to desert climates have adapted to have larger ears which have less fur (shorter, thinner, etc.) on the backs (allowing both sides of their ears to aide in cooling). Lop-eared rabbits tend to be more susceptible to heat - the inside/front of a rabbit's ears is where the vast majority of the cooling takes place (excepting desert species) and on a lop, this part of the ear doesn't get nearly as much air passing over it; also, they can't hold their ears up higher to enhance heat exchange.

:threadhijacked:... sorry for the educational tangent, heh.

Back to the actual topic...

He really does need to get to the vet today if at all possible. I know the closest exotics vet is 2 hours away, but is there a regular vet that will still be open when you get off of work or an after-hours/emergency clinic nearby? If they know they're your only option, regular vets are often willing to treat an exotic pet with the help of a phone consult with an actual exotics vet.

I would start by calling your regular vet, explaining things and asking if your vet would be willing to do an (after-hours, if applicable) phone consult with a local vet in order to get your rabbit started on an appropriate treatment sooner. Rabbit vets are well aware of how quickly a sick bunny can go downhill, so there's a good chance they'll accommodate you within reason to get your bunny medical attention sooner.

If that doesn't pan out, then start calling emergency vets in major cities until you find one that will have an exotics vet on duty at the time you would be wanting to take him to a local vet. Explain that you live too far away to bring your pet to them, that there is NO exotics vet at all available in your area right now and give a brief explanation of the situation, then ask if their exotics specialist would be willing to consult with your local (non-exotics) emergency vet by phone. If you strike out, keep calling - with every major city in the US as an option, you're bound to find one if you're persistent.

It's crucial to specify that you're asking if they'll speak directly with another veterinarian, who would be treating your pet in person. Most vets will not (under any circumstances) give you treatment instructions/medical advice over the phone in an emergency situation to be relayed to your local vet - it's a matter of liability/covering their butts because there are simply too many variables involved. It's a completely different situation if they're advising the treating veterinarian, though.

Once you find a willing exotics vet, start calling local vets/e-clinics. Explain that you know they normally only treat cats and dogs, but you've got a very sick rabbit and you've found an on-duty exotics veterinarian in [whatever city/state they're in] willing to consult with their vet by phone and find out if they're willing to treat your rabbit (the location of the other vet should be specified just to make sure they're willing and able to place a long-distance call).

ANY e-clinic will almost certainly have the equipment and medication necessary to diagnose and treat your rabbit and any vet has the training to do non-species-specific procedures, so it's generally possible for an exotics-trained vet to diagnose/evaluate your pet over the phone with the help of the treating veterinarian and then explain their recommended course of treatment.

~~~~~

As a note, if you're willing to pursue the phone-consult option, can't get your own vet to consult and think you can get him to a local vet by 7 pm CST, I highly recommend trying my vet here in Houston - Dr. Jordan is an exceptional exotics vet; while I haven't had to take the bunnies in yet, I've taken gliders to him numerous times (details provided below if you're curious) and he's always been impressively thorough.

If you don't have time to call or aren't very comfortable with the idea, let me know via PM - I'll call and see what information I can get on your behalf... if you plan to call yourself, I can PM you my full name so that you have the option to "name drop" by mentioning that AAV was suggested by one of their clients (the receptionists probably won't recognize my name alone off the top of their heads but if you add that they've treated my gliders and possibly mention a glider name, I guarantee they'll remember me.

Lemmy's probably the best to mention, as my first visit was regarding health concerns with him (he "seemed" bloated/I was paranoid due to not knowing his cagemate's COD yet) and Tabby's death/arranging for a necropsy... plus Lemmy's very unusually colored in addition to being a little charmer and even when I'm there for a different glider, he always comes out to visit with the staff.

Details re: vet visits, if you'd like to know why I'm so willing to vouch for his bunny skills without seeing them in action:
~ He necropsied Tabitha to determine COD after she abruptly fell deathly ill and passed en-route to the nearest exotics e-vet.
~ He examined Lemmy because I thought he felt a little bloated (he checked for gas or an obstruction, ran fecal tests, etc. and even x-rayed him for free to double-check that there really wasn't anything wrong).
~ I brought Hobbes in for constipation and hissing/chirping when trying to potty... he pooped on the exam table while the vet tech was weighing him; Dr. Jordan ran fecal tests that came back clear but felt that the poop looked abnormal. He sedated/scoped and x-rayed Hobbes to check for an obstruction or anything else abnormal, swabbed him during the scoping/examined the sample (looking for a possible infection) and even sent it off to a lab to be cultured (no charge) so that the results would be available if a follow-up visit was necessary, since he was diagnosed with enteritis (inflammation of the intestinal lining) but the cause was unknown at that point. Hobbes was prescribed metacam and flagyl and recovered very quickly.
~ I brought Hurricane in maybe 3 weeks later... she was pooping but seemed to strain a little when doing so; I felt there was a chance she'd also come down with enteritis (she and Hobbes are cagemates, so if his enteritis was due to an environmental or communicable cause, she could be exposed as well (I hadn't bothered to get the culture results, since he made a full recovery)).
Also, I was being extra paranoid because I thought she had a joey in her pouch and my first "pregnancy" experience ended with Tabitha dying with her first joey 4 weeks IP. Lemmy was temporarily housed with Hurricane and Hobbes after Tabby's death; he's intact and I was removing him when Hurricane went into heat. She didn't appear to go into heat one month; about a month later/a week and a half before the vet visit, another (very experienced) breeder and I both palpated her and concluded that she appeared to have one joey IP).
Hurricane was given a clean bill of health - again, I turned out to be paranoid. Dr. Jordan went a step further and asked if I'd like him to take a careful peek inside her pouch (not out of any medical concern, just a "while we're here and since you think she's carrying a joey" thing). As it turned out, she wasn't carrying a joey... I still really do think she got pregnant, but I did also notice that I couldn't seem to see the "baby bump" anymore starting a week or so before the visit. He was able to tell me that, if she'd had a joey IP but it got pulled (a VERY likely scenario in an intact male/neutered male/female situation; joeys can't reattach to the nipple if they get removed while IP), it had been more than a couple days since that happened... which lined up with when the bump seemed to disappear.

 
The vet in my city doesn't treat exotics but I'm planning on taking him to the vet that does treat rabbits tomorrow. He is eating and drinking, so I think he will be fine until then.
 

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