Vicious dogs

[Linz_1987]

I am so upset at the moment!

Rosie has biten me, my dad and sister in the past. But now tonight she bit my best friend

Its a mixture of fear and something else. I have no ideawhat. We have tryed everything to stop her frombiting. In the space of a month and has biten me, my sisterand my best friend. And she has bitin me numerous amounts oftimes in the past. She is totally messed up in the head poorRosie.

We are starting to feel that putting her down would be the kindest thing to do.

We keep saying next time she bites someone we will have to do something about, but we dont really want anyone else to be biten!

Lifes not fair

I really want putting her down to be the last resort, but I havent aclue what else to do. Someone please help. If youhave been in the same situation please come and share your thoughts.

ray:

 

[Bassetluv]

The only thing I can think to suggest at themoment is a complete checkup at the vet's, if she hasn't already hadone...especially if this behaviour has just started coming on recently.It could very well be a physical problem that is triggering heractions. Even something such as eyesight starting to fail could cause adog to lash out where she normally mightn't...please give her thebenefit of the doubt before making any permanent decision...and myprayers go out to her and to your family, as I imagine it's taking it'stoll on everyone...

 

[Linz_1987]

Aww thank you Bassetluv. Sadly, she has been like this ever since we had her.

Well the story is: We had her at about 8 weeks old - she wasrehomed because the lady found out she was pregnant and couldnt keepthe puppy. So we took her on, but we had a holidaybooked.

So when the holiday date came around, we had to put her in kennels fora week. She was about 4 months old by then. And we HATEDputting her in thereas she was still a puppy.Eversince she has been in kennels she has been scared of dogs, scared ofstrangers, and very vicious. So I really cant say what theydid to her in kennels.

She bit me when she was about 8 months old on the thumb -nothing too serious as she still had her puppy teeth. But allI did was slip her collar off over her head.

The second time she bit me was when I was putting her in thecar. She HATES going in the car, but she is absalutely fineonce she is in. I told her to get in, she jumped up andturned round and bit me. Now that time was alot moreserious.

About a year ago she has started hating you put her lead on in thenight time. I think it all started when we had fireworks andshe was scared to go outside. But she still carrys on evenwithout fireworks going off. She is fine during the day :?

So when you put the lead on her at night she trys to biteyou. But once she is out the door she is absalutelyfine.

Out on walks she is absalutely fine also. But she doesnt likechildren, and she runs away from other dogs.

The bunnies also play a big part in this. She loves them whenthey are in the house, but she chases them when they are in the garden,or they are in their hutch and she runs around their hutches trying tochase them. But this is obviously because she is a herdingdog. Anyway, if you say the word ' rabbit ' in thehouse she goes crazy - grabbing her toy and shaking it viciously in hermouth. You just have to say it accidently in the middle of asentence and she hears the word and shes off. She still hasnta clue what a rabbit is though!

If I get the rabbit food out to put the rabbits to bed, she knows whatI am about to do and also goes crazy and hardly lets you out the backdoor. If you shut a door in her face to stop her from bitingyou or getting to the rabbits she bites the door frame and growlsreally viciously. She is kind of ruleing our lifes.

We really need help. We have tryed getting a dog trainerround our house, but all the family have to do what the women suggests,but my mum doesnt agree with any of it. We have all tryed SOhard to make her see, but it is impossible.



Edit: The vet suggested we got a mussle for her aswhen she went to the vets she tryed to bite all the nurses andthevet. We got her one, but ofcourse you have totake it off for her to drink and eat.So she has nowlearned whenyou are about toput the mussle on andyou cant get near her to put it on. We thought about rehomingher, but she willmost likely bite the newowners, orthe rehoming centre helpers and just put her down. We reallywant to make it the last suggestion though as I know she has biten meso many times, I still love her

 

[pinksalamander]

Why doesn't your mum agree with it? She mightjust really need to be trained and although it may not eliminate theproblem it might help at least.

Thats a shame about the kennel thing. Somehting obviously happenedthere that made heract this way. My Grans dogs go to kennels all thetime and they love it!

 

[Linz_1987]

Well we had a women come round and she told uswhat to do, but my mum kept saying ' oh no , Ihavent got time to doTHAT every day.' She just doesnt want to make the time forher. For example the women said to take her out in the gardenon a lead to train her to stop rounding up the rabbits, but my mum saidshe doesnt have the time to faff about doing that everymorning.

And she keeps saying I use to have a dog and we never had to do that.... bla bla

But she doesnt understand every dog/breed is different and needs training in different ways etc.

You just cant tell her.

 

[pinksalamander]

Thats annoying - when your mum doesn't care.Maybe you should try to just do it yourself and if your mum sees alittle improvement it may convince her to try.

 

[Bassetluv]

Oh, I see...

I'm so sorry that this has been developing. It certainly sounds likeyour dog would benefit from a professional animal behaviouralist, butif you mother won't agree to participate fully, then I guess that's notan option.

Is there any way, if you do have to get rid of Rosie, that you couldfind someone who would be willing to take her provided they agree toprofessional training? Sounds like she has some serious trust issuesgoing on with humans, and trust needs to be reintroduced to her, butgiven a chance with someone who is agreeable to put in the time andeffort, she could possibly turn right around again. Or, if you can'tfind an individual, do you have a local shelter or Humane Society thatwould be willing to take her and work with her? Some shelters will dothat kind of thing if they have the funding.

I'm not sure of your age, but if you are old enough you could also tryworking with her yourself, if you are not frightened to work with her,or try and find someone who will be willing to do this with you. Forinstance, teaching her to go in the car...open the door and toss afavorite treat onto the seat, and encourage her to go and get it. Atfirst she most likely won't, but with a bit of positive encouragementshe could be persuaded to get in. Once she does, allow her to jumpright back out, even if she's only in there for a nano-second. Andpraise, praise, praise!!! That is so important. Keep on doing this inshort intervals, and eventually she will get the idea that getting intothe car is associated with getting rewarded. Make sure to reward hertoo when you actually are taking her someplace in the car, with lots ofpraise and treats. (However, I only recommend taking on training her ifyou have no fear around her, and if you are armed with methods on howto do so....otherwise, you will need someone else to do it, as it canbe dangerous.)

When I first adopted my dog she too had a lot of trust issues,especially with food, and would bite anyone, including me, if I put myhand anywhere near her food dish. I knew this had to be curbed beforeit became too dangerous (she could have potentially killed one of thecats over it) so when it came to feeding time, she was not allowed toeat her food unless I was holding the dish in my lap. At first sherefused and got extremely upset with me, then - as she became hungryenough - she would start grabbing bits of food out of the dish andrunning with it, and then from there she slowly began eating it rightout of the dish (growling at me the entire time, at first). I praisedher every time she ate from it while I held the dish, and now I cantrust her completely with it. She will still growl at me and put up afuss, but she knows that biting is not allowed, so I could stick myhand in her dish and she would growl up a storm, but she will not bite.

It's such a shame when people turn their backs on pets who are specialneeds, or who have problems to be worked out...unfortunately, it's verycommon, which is one reason why shelters are filled with cats and dogswho are just hitting their 'teen' years. I do hope you can find a goodalternative for Rosie, as it's obvious you love her and care about hervery much...:hug1

 

[Linz_1987]

Thank you very much for your help!

We have tryed throwing a treat for her in the car, and it worked forquite a while. But she has now stopped doing it because sheknows she will have to stay in the car. I havent tryedputting her in there, and taking her out again etc. Thatsounds like a good idea. Sometimes I really think she is toosmart for her own good.

I did work experience at a local rescue and boarding kennels.They take on ANY animal. They even have another border colliemale who nobody can go near apart from one person, who he has gainedher trust. You cant touch him or even look at him or he willgo for you. But they still keep him and wouldnt even thinkabout putting him to sleep. I think its wonderful that peopleare like that, and most people would put a dog down if it even bit themonce.

In a way I am glad we got Rosie, because if anyone else had her shewould of been dead years ago. But in another way maybe shewouldnt be like she is today if she hadnt of lived with usI dont know. My mum says she needs to have experttraining, maybe she will act differently this time. But lasttime it was a waste of time, and money.


She is fine outside the house. I was thinking its because shegets bored in the house as she is a Border Collie, and needs to keepher brain active 24/7. But we got Rosie for my sister so shecould go out with her on her horse, running beside her. Butshe doesnt like the horses either. She thinks they are sheepand bites their hooves and it is very dangerous for her, especially asmy sisters horse has shoes.

 

[picklezon]

in psychology class we learned about doginstincts, and watched people who had vicious dogs too, but they allgot better after they were trained. Dogs live in packs, so naturallyyour family is the pack, but there is a top dog! In most families itsthe dad, but sometimes the dogs dont understand that and think they arehead of the pack. You have to show anger to it, not hit it, but showwhos boss. As soon as it sees its not stronger then you it will laydown and show its neck.

Wolves do this in the wild to the top dog, saying "Go ahead and killme, you win!" but usually the leader will recognize it and so will therest of the pack, and won't kill the wolf.

so i hope this help! you may want to research how to train online if you haven't already!

 

[cheryl]

Aww i'm sorry you're having problems with Rosie

You could always try..umm what's her name..Victoria..i think..from..It's me or the dog..that tv show

Isn't that an english show?

That Victoria is just fabulous!

ummmm.i really do hope you know what i'm talking about lol



cheryl

 

[Kathy]

From the sounds of it, she doesn't know who'stop dog and thinks she is. If no one assumes the role themselves, thedogs in the family will go ahead and take it.

Here's a link on "Alpha Boot Camp":

http://sonic.net/~cdlcruz/GPCC/library/alpha.htm


It's the little things that count -- such as walking in the door beforeher, eating before feeding her, giving her simple commands such as SITand STAY before rewarding her.. things that show in general that you'rethe one in charge, not her.

But really, at this point, I would start by contacting a professional behaviorist/trainer.

Good luck!

 

[Linz_1987]

Thank you all very much for your support.

We do try and make her the bottom of the pack, but it doesnt seem to be working.

She isnt a total fan of food - so we leave her food bowl on the floorat all times, so she can take a mouthfull now and then.Otherwise she wouldnt get to eat anything atall! She tends to gobble itall up really late in the evenings though. Maybe we shouldonly put her food bowl down in the evenings then? We give herleft over sausages etc from our meals after we have eaten all of ours.

Ive been looking round for a trainer - basically im looking for thecheapest one! They are all so expencive, but if we want Rosieto get better, it looks as if we will have to spend that much money. :?

 

[Bassetluv]

I don't know a whole lot about training, but will try to pass on a couple of suggestions.

If you can, invest in a good book about dealing with dominance andaggression in dogs. That might give you a headstart on what cuesthatRosie may be receiving from her humansthatcould be confusing, or reinforcing aggression (it'sinteresting how us humanfolk can give dogs such subtle messages andaren't even aware of it).

Never allow her to sit on furniture, and especially on beds. A dominantdog 'claim' that area as his or her own, and it sends them the messagethat they are the alpha.

Neverplay aggessive games with her, such as tug-of-war orpulling on sticks. This encourages dominant behavior and aggression.

If Rosie is afraid of certain things and shows a reaction, such ascowering during a thunderstorm or showing signs of fear at loud noises,don't acknowledge her fear or encourage it by saying things such as'Ohhh...you poor dog...' Instead, act as though you never heard thenoise at all. Go about whatever you were doing, and when you doapproach Rosie, try to distract her from her fear by playing with her,giving her treats and praising her when she responds positively, suchas with the wag of her tail.

Start rewarding her when you put her leash on at night. Talk to hercalmly, praising her, and as soon as you have the leash on give her atreat. But don't take her outside...instead,take the leashoff again right away. so she doesn't associate it with her fear ofgoing out at night. Do this several times in the evening...leash on,treat and tons of praise...leash off...treat and tons of praise...leashon again, treat and tons of praise...etc. But don't force her to gooutside every time you put the leash on her. Instead, you areretraining her to associate having the leash go on at night with a goodthing...a reward, praise, and love. It will take time, but she willrelearn her association with the leash and nighttime.

I have found that with my dog, the tough thing to overcome is heraggression with other dogs. I've never been able to fully teach her howto interact with others, and at the first sign of dominance in anotherdog, she will fight. So I do have to keep her on a leash in the dogparks, but I always try to remind her that her behavior isn'ttolerated. When she growls or shows any sign of dominance aroundanother dog, I pull her face away from them (she wears a Gentle Leader)and I force her to sit, thus taking away her dominant stance. While shewill never be trusted to run loose with dogs she doesn't know, at leastI can prevent her from starting a fight by keeping her in control.

I've also made treats a specialty for her. No table scraps at all(sausages or any other form of meat - if I had it in the house - wouldbring out huge aggression issues with her). She only gets dog cookieswhen she is either doing tricks, or when she's been good and I ampraising her...and on special occasions she will get her ultimatetreat, a pig's ear. However, she can become very aggressive with pig'sears, so she is only allowed to have them when she is in a room byherself, and only if she takes them gently from my hand.

If I can think of anything else to suggest I'll post it...

 

[Linz_1987]

She use to sit on the seats all the time, butwhen we wanted to sit down, it was such a hard time getting heroff. Agression all over again. So frrom about 7months ago she isnt aloud to go on the seats ever again.

And she has been very good for not sitting on them. But sheocasionally puts her paw up on your lap (she use to sit on our lapsaswell lol) . Its strange though, because if she growls at you forstroking her, and you ignore her, she comes right up to you and pushesher head right in your lap as if she wants another stroke. Idont understand her!

I must admit I do play 'agressive' games with her, which I will have to stop right now.

As with other dogs, if one comes running towards her she runsoff. But once its desided this is no fun, and turns away fromRosie, she goes for the dog. Its not that agressive though asshe knows the other dog can be more agressive to her.

Also if you sit on a bench with her, and someone or another dog walkspast she goes for them, as if she is protecting me from them.When we are walking and another dog or human walks past she isabsalutly fine. Off or on the lead. But usuallywith other dogs she just catches a glimse of one and she has run off tohide when she is off the lead.

Thankyou for all the techniques I can try out. I will defintly be giving them ago!

 

[ilovetegocalderon]

You ever see that show "The Dog Whisperer"? That's who you need.

 

[cheryl]

ilovetegocalderon wrote:

You ever see that show "The Dog Whisperer"? That'swho you need.

That reminds me,i was watching the Oprah Winfrey show,and she had a dogwhisperer that she uses for her dogs..and wow! he's good! and he'sgoodlooking too!!



cheryl

 

[Linz_1987]

Hehe, we have a programme on TV over here called' Dog Borstal'. Which you take your dog into a kennels for aweek, and you have to sleep in a tent near by, and5 trainerstrain each dogand their owners.

But one of the trainers on the programme lives about half hour awayfrom me, and she does training sessions. But I think itsgoing to be very expencive as she iskind of famous.