Urine scald

[Thumperina]

But I thought they don't need to clean after peeing, do they?
Very interesting, the white bunny boy is overweight and he had dirty butt some time ago (eventually couldn't bend over to eat feces), I was cleaning him but never was able to do a lot... I checked his butt recently again and it seemed clean!

Anyway, I checked Thumperina yesterday, looks like her scald continues. She's got some smell again, and even short fur is stained with urine. Certainly need to be checked for infection.

DO you think it's safe to spay her with the same vet who said her scald is due to being furry? She said that this is where humane society sends rabbits to fix.
Also, is it totally necessary to exclude infection before she is spayed, right?

 

[JBun]

Honestly, I would have very little confidence in a vet who said that urine soaked fur was due to the rabbit having too much fur down there. In my opinion that is complete hogwash. Your rabbit has some sort of health issue causing the urine scalding, and I find it quite irresponsible of the vet not to be taking it seriously.

It very well could be a UTI that your rabbit has, and if so a week or two on antibiotics should clear it up. But if it doesn't, you may need other tests done like a urinalysis or xrays. I actually would try to find a different vet even if I had to drive a bit, but if you can't you should be able to just phone up your vet and say the urine scalding is still occurring and that you would like to try antibiotics to see if it will clear it up. You should be able to just pick up the antibiotics without having to bring your rabbit back in. Baytril or SMZ TMP are the usual ones used. SMZ TMP should be the cheapest, but you'll need to check with your vet. Your vet will probably want to do baytril, but you should be able to request the SMZ TMP if that's what you want to use.

You really do need to get this cleared up before you have her spayed. Unless the urine scalding is due to uterine cancer, then a spay may be immediately necessary. I personally wouldn't trust this vet to spay my rabbit and would be looking for a different vet if possible.

 

[Thumperina]

thank you.
I would hate to give her AB unless UTI is confirmed. Also, I think spaying her quite soon is very desirable.
Yes, I will be contacting someone else.
You see, she said that I would need to bring the rabbit again and again for shaving (that's her only remedies), so she was foreseeing that the problem won't go away. And she didn't like when I called the next after the visit day and asked why she hadn't performed any other tests. You're right that I shouldn't trust her.

 

[Thumperina]

ok, now I found another vet who has a clinic in the country (suburb) since 1978. It doesn't say he is rabbit specialized but they claim they work with rabbits, and the spay....... ta-dah...is 85 dollars. I don't know how to react. I already had one of my males neutered not far from that place for $35 (also far in the country) but I have a feeling that pain control was inadequate for this price.

 

[Thumperina]

Took her today to a different vet (where spay is $85). It was extremely crowded in there (I guess because their services are kind of cheap) and they told me to just walk-in, no appointments (I don't know why they would wanna do it... having a crowd... while they could just make appointments.
Anyway, I have a feeling that none of them would be a real rabbit specialist. He admitted he looked up urine scald on computer.
He gave me Baytril (liquid, injectable one - is that OK?) At first he mentioned powdered something but I was imagining a small amount of liquid from syringe (you know like pain control I fed orally in the past) and asked for the liquid one (now I regret). I need to give 1 cc each time and they said it would be bitter (so have to mix with something which makes amount even more).
At home when I let her out she went straight to the litter box to pee but she missed and half went to the carpet. I quickly collected it with syringe they gave me to take to test tomorrow. I was so glad I could collect her sample so easily! But now... I am in doubt... I have 2 identical females, and even though picture in my head is her jumping out of the carrier and going to pee, I started to think - was it her but not her daughter who was also somewhere around?
The reason why they didn't get her sample there is because she peed on the towel while I was driving there (and it all absorbed) and he said her bladder was empty.

 

[Thumperina]

I'm confused about baytril. In what form is it normally prescribed? I can't believe that they don't have the one that tastes good. I have a feeling something is wrong again

 

[MiniLopMad]

I have used Batriyl twice and I was given it in liquid form. I don't believe Batriyl is meant to be flavoured.. Not to my knowledge anyway

 

[Thumperina]

thank you.
She tested positive for infection. The vet said he wanted to start with low dose and go for 5 days... To me, it sounds strange - dose should be according to the weight, and the duration should be standard at well.

 

[MiniLopMad]

Yeah, my bunnies dose was based on weight and went for a 2 week duration

 

[BlazeBunnies]

Hope she recovers nicely🐰

 

[Thumperina]

today was day 7 of Baytril treatment, and honestly I don't see much improvements. She still has a smell and her fur is stained with urine. Doctor called me today. I am out of baytril now so we need to come up with the future plan. Honestly, I was thinking to take a little break...emotionally and financially. I didn't expect that after all this stress with medicating her I would need to rush her there again.
Anyway, doctor suggests to run a simple urine test (not urinalysis) to see if infection cleared up, if not - continue AB. I thought it's recommended to wait a little after AB treatment, or is it incorrect and you can test as soon as you finish?
He also wants to do an Xray to see about bladder stones. I am not sure if I want her to undergo surgery (except spay). If she has a stone, would be totally necessary to remove it surgically?
Also, is leaking urine dangerous in any way (except for fly strike)? I mean, what happens if we don't find the reason easily.... He said it all depends how much you want to invest in it... it's already becoming not cheap and we just started... I want to have money to spay her...
BY behavior she seems to be OK. She lost some weight when she wasn't eating much during the last week. But she is active and doesn't seem to be in stress.

 

[Thumperina]

a few more questions. When they do XRay , is it possible to see if rabbit has uterine cancer?
What happens if I just spay her and see if it fixes the problem (without doing XRay to see if she has bladder stone) ?

 

[Thumperina]

Yesterday I had her locked in the clean carrier trying to collect urine sample, and she was there for 2-3 hours but didn't urinate. I also was checking her butt but she was totally dry. Isn't it a good sign (that she is not dripping)?

 

[Thumperina]

any comments, anyone?
Thumperina is being very active (with good appetite) since we finished baytril. I haven't taken her to the vet since we stopped AB as I am having a busy week. She seems be doing good, but I still need some answers to the questions I asked earlier on this page.

 

[JBun]

If she is still getting urine soaked and leaking urine, then there is likely something else going on. If she is staying dry now, then the baytril likely solved the problem and she will be fine.

A UTI is the most common cause of urinary incontinence and easiest to treat, which is why it is usually the first thing a vet will try. If she is still getting wet underneath, then it is still possible that it is a UTI that is being caused by a different bacteria that isn't responsive to baytril, and a urine culture would be able to determine this. But it doesn't seem as likely to me and I probably would wait on a urine culture.

You have tried treating the most likely cause, and if that didn't clear it up you have to move to other possibilities if you want to find the cause and get it cleared up. Problem is that this can require more expensive tests to be done. An xray can often help determine if it is uterine cancer, bladder sludge, or a bladder/kidney stone. But it's also possible the xray won't pick up anything and you will be back to trying a different test to find out what is wrong. There is just no way of knowing.

You could just going ahead with the spay and hope it resolves the urinary incontinence, but there is no guarantee, and it's possible that if your rabbit has something else going on and she has this surgery, that it could make things worse, especially if there is a kidney issue going on.

One other possible cause for urinary incontinence can be the parasite e. cuniculi, but this can be difficult to determine and requires expensive blood tests done. Sometimes the best way to find out if this is the cause is to go ahead and treat and see if it helps. And this isn't too expensive as the medication is relatively cheap, but it does require daily medication for a month.

What I would do if cost wasn't an issue, would be have an xray done. If that didn't show anything, have a urinalysis and urine culture done. If that didn't show anything then I would have a normal blood panel done to check for kidney issues. Then I would go ahead and treat for e. cuniculi. If none of that resolved the urinary incontinence, I might just go ahead and try getting her spayed to see if that helped.

One other thing that can sometimes lead to urinary problems, is when a rabbit has arthritis and/or spinal issues, but you can usually tell this by the rabbit not being very active and having difficulties hopping or seeming stiff when hopping. If this is the case, daily meloxicam can sometimes help with this. But if your rabbit runs around and is active, this isn't likely as the cause.

 

[Thumperina]

JBun, thank you. I don't think she has any problems with her motion.
As I already mentioned, all week after I stopped giving meds, she was very active, like she is feeling so good. she is hormonal too, so she was very busy digging a burrow. She eats well.
Yesterday I washed her privates (by the way, is there a good shampoo for rabbits?). Checked her today and she seems to be about as clean as yesterday (minus what gets dirty when you dig dirt). I will continue to monitor her.

 

[Thumperina]

took her in for XRay today. Actually we did see something interesting... where we didn't expect. Didn't see any stones or anything like this. But the doc said that her right hip looked really strange... I saw the picture and I took the picture with my phone.
When she was young (about 7 month old, or 3 years ago), one day she was walking strange, and we took her to the vet and the vet didn't know what it was and it was gone by itself. Soon we discovered that she had babies (we didn't know she was pregnant) - she was a mom once, we counted when approximately she gave birth and it really seemed that it happened when she was walking strange, so I am assuming she had some kind of giving-birth related injury -? She had 4 kits and everything was good with them. She nursed them all right.
Anyway, now he said that her right hip looks like it's almost been destroyed. He said it didn't look like a tumor, and not arthritis (he said it would be symmetrical), but rather like osteoporosis, and there is not much he could offer with this...She walks, and runs, and hops all right in my opinion. Now I am thinking that the way she moves is A BIT strange looking. Anyway, not long ago I saw her on top of the kid's wagon where we had some leaves and this is rather high to hop on!
They also shaved her fur again, and the skin looks really red and irritated. I wonder if the shave was just bad (I think men can really damage their skin if shave without knowing how to do it) or if her skin really got so much worse for the last month. They gave me medicated shampoo and some powder for her.
Now there is a problem: she is outdoor bun, rather free, and anything that restricts her usually leads to depression and refusal to eat... I will keep her indoors for a day or two (to let her skin heal), but I would hate to restrict her more than this... also she eats grass and doesn't eat hay... she won't eat grass that I pick for her.
I will attach pic of the Xray

 

[Thumperina]

 

[Thumperina]

 

[JBun]

I wonder if her bad hip is causing her to not position correctly when urinating, which is leading to the urine soaked fur. Did your vet mention trying her on meloxicam(anti inflammatory pain reliever) to see if it might help? If her hip hurts at all, then it might really make a difference to provide pain relief. If your vet didn't mention it, I would give them a call and ask to try it out. Brands are Metacam and Meloxidyl. It's cheapest to get it online. You will want to make sure the right dose is prescribed as most vets aren't very knowledgeable and will underdose, which won't prove very effective.
http://www.allivet.com/p-5625-melox...n-32-ml.aspx?gclid=CLXSyqfXp8cCFY6EaQod8U4HjA
http://vgr1.com/metacam/

The red skin may be from urine scalding. Powder isn't going to protect the skin at all if the scalding continues. You need a barrier cream that protects the skin. Something like A & D original ointment(zinc free). Whatever you use needs to be rabbit safe. This link has some info on taking care of urine scalding in rabbits.
http://www.disabledrabbits.com/urine-scald.html

If you want a better diagnosis and treatment option, the xray can be shown to a rabbit specialist for a second opinion. This can be done online without having to bring your rabbit to the specialist, they just need the xray to look at and vet notes. There will be a consultation fee though.