Urine issues

[lightweight]

Hi there!

I have a male, neutered lop who is approximately 4 years old (really unsure as to accuracy). He has a female lop friend who is also spayed and approximately 6-7 years old. He frequently mounts her lately...maybe due to irritation??? I have taken him to the vet and we have done a urinalysis which came back fine but the urine did not look normal at all and did have some pus in it. Just in case, they put him on antibiotics for infection (not Baytril but a pink human medication that does the same but tastes better). I am bringing another sample on Friday and if it's the same they will need to send it to the lab as they had no idea what the issue was the first time.

The urine was brown, like coffee with milk or a cappucino. Cloudy. I collected it at about 10 at night (he had been in a room alone for 12 hours and this was the first time he urinated). It was kept in the fridge overnight and when I got it out of the fridge it had settled so the bottom was all dirt and sediment and the top was liquid. Urinalysis was normal besides some pus and the vet mentioned that there were all sorts of particles (not sure if exact wording) in there.

Both of my buns are free run in a room the size of a bedroom in our finished basement. They are litter trained but have the occasional pee on the floor and of course many droppings. They have free access to timothy hay (it is horse grade hay bought from a farm). They get approximately 2.5 cups of veggies and 2 tablespoons of fruit morning and night as well as half a cup of Timothy pellets (Martin mills for less active adult) which they share.

I have also found that their urine dries white which indicates too much calcium but I specifically avoid the higher calcium ones you're supposed to (like kale). Here is a sample diet of the past 2 days (AM and PM are the same):

Free access to Timothy hay and water all day and night.
AM fresh food - green pepper, carrots and tops, basil (2.5 cups total) and 2 tablespoons papaya
PM fresh food is same

Day two
AM fresh food - dill, escarole, chard (2.5 cups total) and 2 tablespoons blueberries
PM is same

Any input at all as the vet really is not sure what the issue is...

 

[lightweight]

I wanted to add he also sprays white on my walls lately

 

[tonyshuman]

The diet sounds good. I worry about the medication, though. Pink liquid for humans brings back bad memories of amoxicillin from childhood, and that really shouldn't be given to rabbits orally. Make sure the medicine does not end in -cillin.

It could be azithromycin (Zithromax) which would be fine although a strange choice for a UTI.

Brown urine usually means dehydration. Extra hydration which should be part of a treatment for a UTI in any case. That may mean sub-q fluids or offering a bowl of pedialyte in addition to water. The white stuff in the urine can be normal but also can be a sign of kidney problems or issues with calcium metabolism. Some rabbits, especially ones that don't get enough vitamin D, can break down their own bones and excrete the calcium in the urine, which shows up as white crystals.

I am not familiar with "pus" in the urinalysis. That would indicate to me something more serious than a simple bladder infection. I know that rabbit bladder sludge (the calcium in the urine problem) can have a thicker consistency, like toothpaste, but pus itself should not be in the urine. White blood cells can show up in the urine as a result of an infection, and white blood cells are a component of pus. Is that what you/the vet meant by saying there was pus in the urine? The other particle could have been calcium crystals.

I think the bunny needs a blood chemistry panel and it would be good to get a hold of the urinalysis results. He also definitely needs additional hydration, and maybe some time in the sun for vitamin D. Other than that, we need info on how well his kidneys are working and what exactly the urinalysis says to determine what's going on and what needs to be done.

 

[lightweight]

The vet definitely used the word pus and didn't mention if there were crystals or not but that it wasn't abnormal to see crystals in the urine. I remembered the drug name...it was TMS (trimethopim sulfa). I will bring up dehydration and see. That was never mentioned as a possibility. He has constant access to water...which he also likes to dump (he doesn't like a water bottle so I have it in a bowl) and I usually refill it 2-3 times a day. Anyway to find out how much he's drinking??? How do I get him to drink more???



Thanks for the response and hopefully we get more answers on Friday. I haven't gotten a new urine sample yet but I don't think it's gotten better...

 

[ra7751]

I would suggest having a discussion with your vet about the choice of drugs. Sulfa drugs don't usually do so well these days and they can have a rather nasty side effect on the GI. Sulfa certainly isn't a drug that would be high on my list of preferred drugs. I generally don't use Baytril (or Cipro) or any of the sulfa drugs.

Maybe I am confused....but this method of performing a "urinalysis" isn't exactly what I understand is the correct method. Brown urine with crystals can be the sign of many things...dehydration, renal failure, calcium or deposits from the diet. I would highly suggest altering the diet to being based on unlimited grass hays with limited pellets (high quality). I would limit greens to the "safe" greens....basically leafy greens such as romaine....maybe some limited things like dandelions.

White debris in the urine does not always indicate calcium. There is a lot of confusion, even among vets, on calcium in rabbits. They do metabolize calcium differently than other animals and excrete over half of their intake thru their urine. Most pet rabbits are clinically dehydrated (due to artificial diet) and have no or limited exposure to Vitamin D...which is essential to absorbing calcium. Infections can also cause these type of deposits....and shedding spores from E Cuniculi can also present crystals.

Not trying to flame your vet because it sounds that he/she is inexperienced but at least is trying to help. I would suggest a real "virgin" urine sample for urinalysis as well as a full CBC with EC titer.

Randy