Tort color question

[sheandg]

I bred my fuzzy lops the buck is orange and the doe is broken tort black. I have 3 kits that are just 5 days old and it looks like I have a broken orange and 2 solid torts but one has a dark belly and the other is light and was told the one with the light belly might be a tan pattern tort. What does that mean? Is there another term for the color? I'm trying to find info on it. Not sure if it is a showable color.

 

[BlueCamasRabbitry]

Hmm... Maybe the person who told you meant Lilac Tort? Or even blue tort?

Is the darker one a black tort?

Emily

 

[OakRidgeRabbits]

I'll try to make this as simple as possible!

Orange is an agouti color. Other agoutis include chestnut, opal, fawn, etc. Otters (tan patterns) are also genetically agouti.

Tort is a shaded color, as are sable point, smoke pearl, seal, siamese sable, etc.

As a general rule, you should not do agouti x tort crosses because it can give you "shagoutis"- shaded agoutis.

A "tan pattern tort" is called a tort otter. Tort otters are possible from a tort x agouti breeding and are unshowable, although you could use them in a breeding program. Agoutis are characterized by light circles around the eyes, lacing on the ear, and a light belly.

I hope that helps!

 

[Starlight Rabbitry]

Technically speaking, Orange is a non-extention agouti. It has 2 colors on the hair shaft opposed to 3.

 

[bunnybunbunb]

Pictures would help.

It might be an otter but I think it may be something else.

I have a question, if it is otter that means the orange is Aat. How is it possible to get selfs from a non-self carrying rabbit? Impossible, I believe, since to get selfs, solid self tort is in this instance, they would need the self -a- from both parents, not just one. So that means the baby can not geneticly be otter... right?

 

[TinysMom]

I had a tort otter once that was orange. I was shocked. I'd bred two black otters together - it turned out that I got in the litter of four - a black otter, a chocolate otter, a blue otter AND the tort otter.

I never was able to figure it out - but that is what other breeders told me she was.

I forget what we named the black otter - but the others were "cookies 'n Cream", "blueberries 'n Cream", and "Peaches 'n Cream".

 

[OakRidgeRabbits]

"Technically speaking, Orange is a non-extention agouti."

Remember how I said I was making this as simple as possible?But thank you for the clarification for those of us more versed in genetics!

"I have a question, if it is otter that means the orange is Aat. How is it possible to get selfs from a non-self carrying rabbit? Impossible, I believe, since to get selfs, solid self tort is in this instance, they would need the self -a- from both parents, not just one. So that means the baby can not geneticly be otter... right?"

I don't really understand what you're asking, but here are the genotypes for tort, orange, otter, and self (black):

Black Tort: aa B_ C_ D_ ee
Orange: A_ B_ C_ D_ ee
Black Otter: at_ B_ C_ D_ E_
Black: aa B_ C_ D_ E_

You're right, you wouldn't get selfs. She got orange, tort, and tort otter (agouti, shaded, shagouti). Tort is genetically more like a self than shaded, but it's not a self color.

 

[Starlight Rabbitry]

OakRidgeRabbits wrote:

"Technically speaking, Orange is a non-extention agouti."

Remember how I said I was making this as simple as possible?But thank you for the clarification for those of us more versed in genetics!

Don't really know if you are being rude or not but I figured that I ought to tell you that I am NOT versed in genetics, I only understand the basics of where the colors fit into groups. I thought I was being helpful for this person in understanding that orange is not totally an agouti it just has less rings.

Excuse me for trying to be helpful even though I am not any expert.

Sharon

 

[pamnock]

TinysMom wrote:

I had a tort otter once that was orange. I was shocked. I'd bred two black otters together - it turned out that I got in the litter of four - a black otter, a chocolate otter, a blue otter AND the tort otter.

The tort otter is just a non-extension otter. It's likely that it was probably a chocolate tort otter (they are often mistaken for orange).

 

[sheandg]

thanks for all the info.

Here are the kits. They are just 6 days old so still hard to tell the color ( for me at least) Maybe I'm wrong on all accounts with the colors I think.

I was thinking the broken is an orange and the 2 others looked tort but maybe the lighter one is orange?? I tried to get natural lighting....

 

[OakRidgeRabbits]

Starlight Rabbitry wrote:

OakRidgeRabbits wrote:

"Technically speaking, Orange is a non-extention agouti."

Remember how I said I was making this as simple as possible?But thank you for the clarification for those of us more versed in genetics!

Don't really know if you are being rude or not but I figured that I ought to tell you that I am NOT versed in genetics, I only understand the basics of where the colors fit into groups. I thought I was being helpful for this person in understanding that orange is not totally an agouti it just has less rings.

Excuse me for trying to be helpful even though I am not any expert.

Sharon

:? I was just joking.

Genetics can be very difficult to understand, so I was initially just listing some basics. So by saying that, I was just jokingly pointing out that I just had not included it inititally, for fear of confusing those who may not understand what nonextension and such meant.

 

[bunnybunbunb]

When I said what I said I was meaning the "agouti" parent could not be agouti, carry otter and give an "aa" baby. Torts have both lower case self a so I consider it a self in some ways.

So, if the "agouti" parent is really otter that means none of the babies are agouti. From the pictures I can see the broken orange baby is really broken tort otter. It's tort color is to dark to be orange.

Now we have all that figured out! You gots a tort, tort otter and broken tort otter.

 

[sheandg]

So is the buck I have an orange or is it an otter of some sort?

 

[bunnybunbunb]

He has to be an otter of some sort, agouti just is not possible from the what he produced with a tort. Pam said chocolate tort otter.

Do you have a picture of him?

 

[bunnybunbunb]

HBB's Evan? He looks like a black tort otter to me.

 

[sheandg]

here he is. He just got his first leg last week......


the doe I used has all tort black on both sides for the last 3 generations

 

[bunnybunbunb]

Tort can not hide agout or otter so odviously it is from him. The otter gene lightens torts up(I personally am not sure why, anyone else want to explain?) so that is why he is much lighter.

 

[OakRidgeRabbits]

Why can't he be orange? You can get orange, tort, and tort otter from an orange x tort cross.

 

[pamnock]

OakRidgeRabbits wrote:

Why can't he be orange? You can get orange, tort, and tort otter from an orange x tort cross.

You wouldn't be able to get all 3 from a orange x tort cross as bunnybunbunb brought up in an earlier post (below).

To get torts in a orange x tort litter, the orange would have to be Aa. To get tort otters, the orange would have to be Aat. He can't be both, so both tort and tort otter would not both be possible in this cross. You can of course, get orange in the cross.

However, the fact that a tort otter can mascarade as an orange can further complicate the issue when orange isn't really orange A, but tort otter at.

(hope this makes sense - woke up with a migrane this morning and having difficulty processing information)



bunnybunbunb wrote:

Pictures would help.

It might be an otter but I think it may be something else.

I have a question, if it is otter that means the orange is Aat. How is it possible to get selfs from a non-self carrying rabbit? Impossible, I believe, since to get selfs, solid self tort is in this instance, they would need the self -a- from both parents, not just one. So that means the baby can not geneticly be otter... right?

 

[sheandg]

so depending on how these 3 kits turn out colorwise will answer if this buck is truly an orange or a tort otter. It must be very hard to tell since he has been on the show table a few times and his color has never been brought up.

Right now looking at the kits does it look like I have tort otters?

What a bummer if he is a tort otter since I bought him wanting an orange and he wasn't cheap;(

well that dark one looks like a tort black.......so the other 2 would have to be orange?? since I can't have a tort and tort otter in the same litter right?