Too many greens???

[Maureen Las]

Hi.. before I joined RO in November my mainsource of info was House Rabbit Society and also the exotic animalhospital( Midwest) in La Grange Park Ill. It seemed that Iwas told that the healthiest diet for rabbits is quality timothy hay,greens daily and a small amount of pellets....so thats what I havedone. I have 6 rabbits and so I fix 6 big salads daily for each one .They love the greens!!! Recently I have become aware of the calciumcontents of veggies and realize that many of the veggies I feed on adaily basis are high in calcium....parsley, kale ,dandelions, carrottops. I feel now that What I thought was really good for them probablyisn't. I guess that people push "greens" because a rabbit should havesome greens but maybe I took this too seriously. I am presentlythinking about weaning my bunnies from so much greens but I'm afraidthe change will push into GI problems. Does any one know of greens lowin calcium other than romaine and the lettuces or does anyone have anysuggestions of how I should do this.?

 

[Aloha420wsm]

I got a detailed list from the shelter when iadopted Gaelyn. it lists all the veggies and if they are high incalcium, have vitamin a or if they arehigh in sugar.

For times sake i'll just list the high in calcium veggies right now:

Beet Greens~medium (also has Vit A )
Carrot Tops~high (Also Vit A)
Collards~high (Vit A)
Dandelion Greens & Flower~med (Vit A)
Kale~med (Vit A)
Mustard Greens~med (Vit A)
Parsley~med (Vit A)
Spinach~med (Vit A)
Turnip Tops~med


Im not sure if this is a complete list, but thats the info i have. HTH.

I feed my buns alot of those too, andi was worried about thecalcium levels awhile back, but they both seem to be fine.

 

[Pipp]

This is the best site for food contents there is:

http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/foodcomp/search/

(general search)

or:

http://www.ars.usda.gov/Services/docs.htm?docid=9673

for the nutrients list.

Great search engines!

The high calcium problems may not show up immediately (or at all) butolder buns may experience urinary-related problems such as kidney orbladder stones and sludge.

SAS and PIPP:bunnydance: (who LOVES carrot tops)

 

[naturestee]

Are any of your buns having problems withbladdersludge/stones? And what types of pellets areyou feeding? The calcium amounts in vegetables are negligablecompared to the amount in alfalfa.

Also, rabbits do need some calcium in their diets. There'sbeen an on-again-off-again conversation on Etherbun aboutthis. Apparently, it's possible that some rabbits may haveblood/urine calcium problems even when they are on a low calciumdiet. If the rabbit is not getting enough calcium in it'sdiet, it's body starts pulling calcium out of the bones. Soit still has sludge problems, but it also has weaker bones.It's just something to think about, but after reading this (and itmakes sense biologically) I don't feel comfortable with drasticallyreducing calcium levels.

I feed timothy pellets and timothy hay, although alfalfa is a raretreat. I do feed high calcium veggies, although the bulk oftheir greens tend to be lettuces. Italian parsley, kale, andcollard greens are big hits in my house. Mocha used to havesludgy urine as a baby, but hasn't since she's beenoffalfalfa pellets for a while. Although all mybuns arepretty young and I've been a bunnymom for slightlyless than a year.

 

[bunnydude]

I feed my bunnies hay (3 kinds) a 1/4 cup oftimothy pellets each and about 1 1/2 cups of greens each. I have neverhad problems with sludge. Have you just recently started them on thishigh vegetable diet?

 

[ilovetegocalderon]

You know, honestly, I get kind of tired of allthe "this is good for your rabbit, no this is, no itsnot,this is" all the time. If I paid attention toall the varying opinions I would go insane. I just feed myrabbits whatever I feel is best and what they seem to thrive beston. They get some pellets, they get some hay, they get somegreens, they get some strawberries, etc. ....And I'm not really intomeasuring their food either...i justuse some commonsense,and my rabbits appear to be happy, healthy, binkyinglittle beings.

 

[bunnydude]

You make a very good point, it is hard to sortthrough all the different opinions on rabbit care. You are doing theright thing by doing what you feel is right. And every bunny isdifferent, so modifying your care to suit a particular rabbit is also avery good idea, as is using common sense. When people on this forumpost (myself included), they are not saying that one method is betteror worse than another. They simply offer different options, so thateveryone can make educated choices that are in the best interest oftheir bunnies.

Bunnydude

 

[naturestee]

I look at all the recommendations and alter themto fit my bunnies' needs. For example, they all get timothypellets. But Mocha and Loki get twice the amount that the HRSrecommends, and Fey and Sprite get less than they *should*. Iswitched to timothy pellets because even as a baby Mocha would haveextra cecals and sludgy urine, plus they have more fiber than alfalfapellets. Since I switched, both Mocha and Loki have developedstunning coats, so I know it's better for them than the other stuff was.

 

[JimD]

ilovetegocalderon wrote:

You know, honestly, I get kind of tired of all the "this isgood for your rabbit, no this is, no its not,this is" all thetime. If I paid attention to all the varying opinions I wouldgo insane.

I can agree with that. The subject has been visited and revisited onseveral occasions. What works for one bun does not necessarily work foranother. What breeders do does not necessarily line up with what ownersdo. Availability of food products differs from region to region andeven more drastically from country to country.

I, for one, made the mistake of trying to follow ALL of therecommendations. It all ended up being very detrimental to my bunniesfor sure.

It took a few months to get them back to some kind of normalcy. Theynow get limited alfalfa-based pellets, unlimited timothy hay, 1 tbsprolled oats daily, romaine 2-3 times weekly, dried papaya 1-2 times aweek. Even with this simple diet I still have one bun that has to havetimothy-based pellets because of her intolerability to a high proteindiet.

~Jim

 

[Maureen Las]

I don't feel "sorry" that I try tofind out what is best for my rabbits and ,to be honest it ispleasurable for me to learn ..thats part of the reason that I enjoythis forum. If you find it irritating why don't you just switch toanother topic?

 

[Pipp]

Very good points in this thread!

I will add that there's no problem feeding bunnies high calcium veggies like Kale as long as they don't get it all the time.

When it comes to veggies, the key words are rotation, rotation,rotation. Only give things like carrot tops or kale for threedays in a row, then move on to something else.

Pipp gets two or three different veggies for three days at a time, thenI try to move on to a new category or at least a new set of nutrientbalances for another three days. She also gets the odd bitofoats,seeds, some fruit, etc.Ibelieve the key to good bunny health is variety.

And I don't measure pellets or veggies, either. As long asboth bunnies are eating lots of hay and good high fiber, low fatpellets, and I don't go overboard on the treats, their weight isreasonable. (I prefer just a bit of fat on them as a bufferif they get sick, anyway).

And sorry, didn't put together that the calcium question didn't involvealfalfa pellets. Like Naturestee said, they do needcalcuim. Its essential for young bunnies for almost the firstyear of their lives. (Ditto with protein). It getscut back as the bunny ages, but attempts shouldn't be made to eliminateit.

SAS and PIPP :bunnydance:

 

[Maureen Las]

Hi Pipp... I guess rotation is thebest way but very difficult if you have limited selection in grocerystores. Let me tell you why I started this topic. I just had mymini-lop Jacques in for a tearduct flush and the vet did bloodwork andshe told me he was fine but his calcium level was high. She didn't sayit was negative or positive, just that it was high. I thought to myselfit is because he is a veggie machine..this little tiny bunny really canput it away! I had an experience with a guinea pig several years agothat affected me. The guinea pig began suddenly to pee bright redblood. I immediately took her to the vet and she was x-rayed. She had alarge bladder stone from TOO MUCH CALCIUM and needed surgery. She didjust fine but it was expensive and I didn't forget the experience. Ifeel that if a bunny develloped a bladder stone that the surgery wouldbe more difficult than even a guinea pig..... and I am just trying toprevent a problem in the future. I do believe that all bunnies areindividuals and that my 5 yeyear old holland lop Babette never hasbladder sludge whereas my new shelter addition (who is very big andseveral pounds overweight) has it frequently. I feed only these veggies...dandelions, kale, parsley. cilantro, romaine, carrot tops andcarrots. The bunnies sit up and beg for their greens every evening..ifI cut back it will be difficult.. but if it is necessary I will do it.

 

[Pipp]

LOL! I lied when I said they get threekinds of veggies for three days, that's only if I manage to get mysorry :bunnybutt:to the good veggie store rather than themuch closer regular place.

I've settled on baby romaine (I buy it in organic bags of plasticclamshells) and bok choy and occasionaly cilantro as the staples, andwhen I do get the kale,carrot tops and dandelion (which arefarther away), they only get them for three days straight.(Which is too bad, that kale seems to really last!).

Pipp absolutely HATES parsely.My otherbunny loves the stuff. He doens't like cilantro much, though,but he'll eat it. He also eats tons of hay and would love toeat tons of pellets, buthe's restricted because the littleguy is twice the bunny he was from when I first started fosteringhim. And he was supposed tohave been fullgrown. :shock:

SAS and PIPP :bunnydance:

 

[ilovetegocalderon]

angieluv wrote:

I don't feel "sorry" that I try to find out whatis best for my rabbits and ,to be honest it is pleasurable for me tolearn ..thats part of the reason that I enjoy this forum. If you findit irritating why don't you just switch to another topic?

noneed to take offense, i wasnt saying i was irritated by yourquestion....i just remember when i first started trying to figure outwhat i should be feeding my rabbits i was told different things bydifferent people and websites...its not this forum, itseverywhere...people's opinions are extremely varied when it comes tothis topic and i just remember it driving me crazy trying to figure itout and i was trying to say that you're probably going to hear a wholebunch of varying opinions as well and try not to let it overwhelmyou. sheesh

 

[RO STAFF]

Nobody's irritated, nobody took offense. So there's nothing more to talk about on that subject.

:thanks: