To the rabbit breeders

[polly]

naturestee wrote:

Polly, you're very right that many rescue people lump all breeders together. It's pretty rotten. I wish I could drag some of these people to shows so they can see responsible breeders. I've only had time to go to one so far as I usually have to drive a fair bit, but it was a great experience and everyone was so nice. More of us have seen the 4H shows at county fairs, and those can be hit or miss as far as the standard of care and knowledge of the kids. It really depends on the adults running the program. Unfortunately in my area they don't seem very good and they care more about making the child feel good than quality rabbit care and breeding. It's not unusual to see larger buns with bad urine burns and bleeding sore hocks getting blue ribbons.

thats sad mind you brings us all back to the do you have the time inclination etc to do all the things your rabbits need you to do !

 

[JadeIcing]

naturestee wrote:

As a rescue person and shelter volunteer, I'm A-OK with show breeders, people breeding for good type, realistic expectations and plans for the babies, etc. I do wish more 4H kids here were better instructed, and when we do get a tattooed rabbit it usually came from a 4H kid. Either they got tired of caring for it (fairly common) or didn't plan well for the babies they bred. Very few if any of our rabbits were bred by show breeders.

I feel the same. Trust me I am often times a minority in that.

clevername wrote:

"what is your defense to those who say thatthere is an overpopulation of rabbits?"
Personally, most of my rabbits are endangered. Overpopulation doesn't apply to them.

I DO see a whole lot of mix breeds in shelters though, which seems to imply that these rabbits aren't coming from show breeders but from the general pet population. You can't force people not to breed their pets anymore than you can force them to take good care of them. So I really don't agree with the guff people give towards breeders if its the pet owners who contribute to most of the problem.

First I have had 9 rabbits as my own. Out of my own bunnies minus the petstore ones....5 are or were purebred.2 of those 4 were rehomes. One for good reasons the other. 1 is a foster I adopted.:X

12 fosters 1 I adopted. Those twelve fosters... Half the fosters were pure bred one being the one I adopted.

Big difference between good breeders and bad breeders. We have breeders in parts of Mass and CT that are dumping bunnies outsidethat don't meet their standards.

 

[DyemondRabbitry]

Breeder here. Started as a 4-H project and I know head the county 4-H rabbit program as well as show in ARBA. The point is- we have to TEACH people how to be good breeders- too many people fall into the trap of "I bet it would be cute if I bred this to this......" NO! People need to understand genetics and how to care for their animals before EVER, EVER trying to breed them!!

 

[Luv-bunniz]

clevername wrote:

"what is your defense to those who say thatthere is an overpopulation of rabbits?"
Personally, most of my rabbits are endangered. Overpopulation doesn't apply to them.

Overpopulation applys to every rabbit, no matter what the breed.

 

[clevername]

Luv-bunniz wrote:

clevername wrote:

"what is your defense to those who say thatthere is an overpopulation of rabbits?"
Personally, most of my rabbits are endangered. Overpopulation doesn't apply to them.

Overpopulation applys to every rabbit, no matter what the breed.

Show me a rescue with a Silver Fox in it. How about an actual American?

I realize your point though, every rabbit contributes to the problem no matter where they come from. But what I'm saying is it's unlikely my rabbits contribute. The odds (considering their rarity and how I handle sell off stock) are just against it.

Heck if they are getting popular enough to show up at shelters maybe that's a good thing. We'll know they aren't extinct yet.

 

[TinysMom]

Luv-bunniz wrote:

clevername wrote:

"what is your defense to those who say thatthere is an overpopulation of rabbits?"
Personally, most of my rabbits are endangered. Overpopulation doesn't apply to them.

Overpopulation applys to every rabbit, no matter what the breed.

I am so glad we have breeders working on those endangered bunnies - and a great place like this forum which is BREEDER FRIENDLY and accepts and supports responsible breeding.

Where I live - there is no shelter within 180 miles that I know of - possibly even further. The only way people get rabbits - is from the breeders in the area....and when I called the pound to see about people turning in rabbits (to offer to help foster, etc) - they laughed at me. Turns out they've never had a rabbit turned in - at least that the guy I talked to knew of...

Even now that I'm no longer breeding - I still get calls and requests about bunnies.

I think its sad that there are a lot of areas in the country where there is an overpopulation of rabbits - I really do. But I am also happy that in areas like mine - where we have no rabbits in shelters, etc - we are still able to get rabbits!

 

[clevername]

LOL!

Okay now I have to eat my words.
There's hope yet for the Silver Fox! ha ha

 

[naturestee]

I don't know, that looks like a lop to me. Maybe a mix?

I'm pretty sure there was an actual Silver Fox at our shelter a few years ago. One of the 4H families has a few so that's probably where it came from. But in my experience there's a bunch of breeds that you only see at shows and only very, very very rarely in rescues or shelters. These are the largebreeds (aside from NZs and Calis) and the arched breeds. And English lops.

I still stand by my feeling that responsible show breeders rarely contribute to overpopulation issues. Go blame the guy mass producing lionheads and holland lops and selling them to pet stores.

 

[TinysMom]

The majority of breeders I've dealt with - ask that if you need to rehome your rabbit - you return it to them and they will find a home for it. Or they at least want first dibs on it if you want to rehome it.....and not just for breeding purposes.

 

[clevername]

naturestee wrote:

I don't know, that looks like a lop to me. Maybe a mix?

I'm pretty sure its a Silver Fox. The silvering trait is recessive and his weight is spot on. SF can be mistaken for Silvers sometimes, but their build and fur is very different. My guess is that this one either has summer ear or was sold off for having poor ear carriage. They really are sweet bunnies so can't blame anyone for seeing them as a possible pet.

TinysMom wrote:

The majority of breeders I've dealt with - ask that if you need to rehome your rabbit - you return it to them and they will find a home for it. Or they at least want first dibs on it if you want to rehome it.....and not just for breeding purposes.

I think that's a really good policy. Maybe we should mention it in our "breeding responsibly" post?

 

[BlueGiants]

It is an excellent policy for a breeder to take back any rabbit that they have ever bred. Most of us have gone through all kinds of trouble to get back a bunny of "ours". Responsibility starts at birth.

 

[DyemondRabbitry]

I actually have one breeder I know that makes you sign a legal release when you get the rabbit for a pet that if you no longer want it- you send it back to her...like when you adopt from a shelter. I'm not sure if it requires spay or neuter but it does require that if the rabbit has babies and you can't find homes you contact the breeder.

 

[Luv-bunniz]

TinysMom wrote:

Luv-bunniz wrote:

clevername wrote:

"what is your defense to those who say thatthere is an overpopulation of rabbits?"
Personally, most of my rabbits are endangered. Overpopulation doesn't apply to them.

Overpopulation applys to every rabbit, no matter what the breed.

I am so glad we have breeders working on those endangered bunnies - and a great place like this forum which is BREEDER FRIENDLY and accepts and supports responsible breeding.

Where I live - there is no shelter within 180 miles that I know of - possibly even further.  The only way people get rabbits - is from the breeders in the area....and when I called the pound to see about people turning in rabbits (to offer to help foster, etc) - they laughed at me.  Turns out they've never had a rabbit turned in - at least that the guy I talked to knew of...

Even now that I'm no longer breeding - I still get calls and requests about bunnies.

I think its sad that there are a lot of areas in the country where there is an overpopulation of rabbits - I really do.  But I am also happy that in areas like mine - where we have no rabbits in shelters, etc - we are still able to get rabbits!

Dont for a minute think that was an "anti-breeding" post. I was just saying that ever rabbit bred is another added to the population. Looking at the bigger picture, if all people who bred rabbits (note, I didnt say "if all breeders", as I dont consider someone who has had a few "fun" litters a breeder) bred purebred rabbits and offered to take them back, then there wouldn't be as many rabbits in shelters and maybe breeders would think twice before breeding another rabbit for babies to show/sell?
I think the main problem is ignorant people purchasing rabbits from petstores or impulse purchases from pet stores.

 

[flexedHollands]

Ive been to plenty of shelters and continue to drop by once in a while, ive seen plenty of "pure breds" that are to be brutally honest ugly and poor examples of the breed, usually as a result of pet qual bred to pet qual. The rest are mainly mixes. Once in a blue moon I see a half decent pure bred in there, its usually gone in about a day or so.
I breed mini rex and hollands for show, I only have one unpedigreed doe in the rabbitry and that is because she is a great foster mother. My culls go for pets or for meat. I never dump at shelters, and frankly when someone calls for a pet and they dont seem to know what they are doing or be all that responsible, I just stop communicating with them, and say I have nothing left. In addition I always take back my rabbits if some1 cant keep them (ONLY ever occured once and the bun was rehomed). And all my animals are health guarenteed.
My show quality rabbits are not cheap, which usually weeds out those who arent really serious about owning a rabbit. In addition im quite sure that if they ever ended up in a shelter(unlikely) they wouldnt last longer than a day or so.
My point in the end is that Shelters need to learn that being no kill is foolish, in the end you hurt more animals than you help. Culling the sick, the agressive, the elderly as horrible as it sounds is the best way to ensure that the younger animals who are victims of bad curcimstance get a second chance.
Also rescuing 200 MEAT rabbits COMON, if their conditions where deplorable fine take them from those conditions and place them in better ones but that shouldnt have changed their ultimate destination.

 

[flexedHollands]

A responsible breeder has a plan and a market more than one in most cases, which usually prevents them from contributing to the problem.

 

[gentle giants]

Rabbits from responsible breeders are far less likely to wind up in shelters, because as Blue Giants said, almost all of them will tell a new owner to bring the rabbit back if they have to let go of it. I know there were a couple of times that I wouldn't sell a rabbit to a certain person if they weren't willing to spay/neuter it. I had one lady that was asking about my Flemmie babies, and said she didn't think it would be necesary to spay/neuter asit wouldn't be around any other rabbit. I mentioned certainbad behaviors that a spay will stop, and her response was: "Come on, it's just a rabbit!"

ssd:

 

[Erins Rabbits]

I get so tired of people talking down to me because I breed rabbits. The closest pet store to me is two hours away, our Humane $ociety doesn't even HAVE rabbits, there is no overpopulation here! I breed to fuel my hobby, and yes, I sell my rabbits, if only to help with their upkeep and at best pay the feed bill.

People on bunspace, I'm sure some of you have heard of it, get so upset if you so much as mention breeders. Topics are shut down for leading into controversial topics and bunny people are encouraged to feed their rabbits only fresh veggies, yet you see so many die off, with diarrhea or other related illnesses. It's all pretty silly.

I can't see why we all can't reach a compromise. We all share a common interest- there is so much conflict between breeder and pet owner, but there shouldn't be. When it comes down to it we all love our rabbits, or we wouldn't be involved with them. When it comes down to it it's the guy with a couple rabbits in his back yard with a get rich quick scheme is the one contributing to any overpopulation, NOT those of us breeding for the breed.

 

[clevername]

I can't get over how much hypocrisy I encounter...
I got contacted the other day by a girl who really wanted a purebred angora. But couldn't help but bad mouth me along the way about the fact that I breed. Apparently she thought it was "abuse".:twitch:

I don't think people realize that if they follow their claims to their logical conclusion those rabbit breeds that are so special and unique will deteriorate into run of the mill rabbit mutts if there aren't responsible people maintaining the breed.

 

[flexedHollands]

Yes the hypocrasy is disgusting. I enjoy posting on rabbit forums, and learning things from pple there. However many of these pet forums have some kinda hate on for the show and breeding world. Dont they realize that as breeders we know much more than the average pet owner simply because we have to to be successful. If you ever read half the stuff on their forums its simply BS and what I like to call pet owners knowledge. They have various problems health temperment which are quite easily fixed but instead of listening to someone who has seen in it a million times before they dismiss you as an abuser and try all these complicated remedies.

Also the attitude that show rabbits are miserable and abused is hilarious those are probably some of the most well cared for rabbits in the world...otherwise they wouldnt win anything...

Btw if someone ever tried to talk down to me and buy a rabbit at the same time they would be going home empty handed

 

[clevername]

flexedHollands wrote:

Btw if someone ever tried to talk down to me and buy a rabbit at the same time they would be going home empty handed

I sent her a link to Petfinder and haven't heard from her since thankfully.