to operate or not to operate...

[bunbunsdad]

Hi there,
Our bunny list a tooth last week. He the stopped eating. After a day of not eating we brought him to the vet who noted he had some dental issues and suggested operating. We decided we did not want to go that route as he has been extremely happy and healthy until this incident. She gave us nsaiDS and antibiotics. After 4 days of my syringe feeding him critical care and administering the meds he is back to his old self...eating lots, pooping lots and drinking. We brought him back for a follow up and gave the vet the good news. She felt his mouth and said she felt what she thought is an abscess and wanted to operate right away to remove his teeth. She indicated we are always going to have problems. My thought is that he is doing better, why put him through that. Plus she quoted us approximately $2000 for the procedure. She told us to keep him on the medication (perhaps for life). Are we wrong to just wait and see? Is this an emergency? What else can I do to help him naturally?

 

[HiddlesKenway]

If it's an abscess you really should have it operated on right away. They're very serious in rabbits as they're hard to remove. Can be contagious and deadly depending on the type and where it is located.

 

[Azerane]

This is a tricky situation, if the abscess is in the mouth or jaw then I would say that most likely it will need to be operated on. How old is your bunny? You can always get a second opinion from another experienced rabbit vet too if you're unsure about whether it's the right direction to head in. Check out this index of vet listings if you haven't already: http://www.rabbitsonline.net/f21/pin-index-vet-listings-10295/

 

[bunbunsdad]

Thank you for the quick responses. Our little guy Is approximately one year old (we adopted him). I have read so many conflicting stories about operating. Like I said he has been so healthy with no problems. I felt under his chin and there is a tiny little bump...
I may take your advice and get a 2nd opinion. Both visits within the 21st minute, surgery was brought up. Our rationale was that this is the 1st issue he's had, he got better pretty quickly (mind you I was up with him around the click pumping the critical care and fluids).....but hey, he's our baby. If he was a human, we'd do the same thing. Surgery seems so drastic for an issue that appears to be on the mend.
From what I have been reading as well, $2000 (canadian) seems quite high. Thank you again for the input!!

 

[HiddlesKenway]

I wouldn't worry if it comes to needing surgery, he's only a year old. Recently I had a doe (Year and a half.) with an ear abscess and she's doing fine. She had her op only last week. It cost $120(AUD) she had no reaction to the anaesthetic. I think it's more of a risk on the over six year olds.

 

[Azerane]

Yep, that's why I asked about the age to check whether he was an older bunny or not. Surgery is certainly a viable option at one year old. But if you say it's getting better with meds, and the vet is pushing for surgery, then I would definitely be asking around, $2000 also seems like a lot, but it can be hard to tell sometimes.

 

[bunbunsdad]

Thanks again for the input...I gave him his medicine this morning and gave him a little salt water rinse and started to feel around.... I don't really feel anything...The little bump I felt I think was his jaw bone...As you can see I am not a complete bunny anatomy expert ; ) I was reading and speaking to a couple of pet owner friends and they have all gone to a vet in Ogdensberg that is reasonable. We also have 3 dogs that are due for their shots soon, so I may bring them all and have our little guy checked out at the same time.

 

[Chrisdoc]

My bun has an abscess under his jaw and is undergoing treatment nown. If the lump is very small, you should be able to get it under control with antibiotics or penicilin G or bicilin. My vet has said that she would prefer not to have to operate unless absolutely necessary. I would try and treat initially and depending on results go from there but it looks like you caught it very early so it should be easier to treat.

 

[bunbunsdad]

Hi Chris! Thanks for your message. I hope your bunny recovers well. Our little fella seems to be doing well. I still have him on antibiotics, but he is eating super well and running around like a little crazy guy. I have been syringing his mouth with a little salt water and everything is looking ok. The tooth he lost is coming back in nicely too. I agree he does not have the best teeth...but I would like to avoid operating if I can keep him healthy naturally and keep a close eye on him. I honestly can't really feel a bump...but am checking every day. Keep me posted on your baby's progress...fingers crossed

 

[Chrisdoc]

So glad he's eating and running about, that's so important. Mine also is still eating although mostly greens and as many as he wants and he is his usual self in spite of all the jabs and poking about his abscess. I will only opt to operate if I have absolutely no other option, there are lots of ways to treat absesses, I have been reading loads about it in the last week. I already have a thread for him on Health and Wellness under Lump under Chin and the three of them also have a bunny blog called the Three Musketeers. Our positive attitude is important as well and trying to keep their life as normal as possible. I will watch on here for more news. Good vibes and nose bonks from mine

 

[bunbunmommy]

im so nervous when it comes to surgery.. i lost my 2 1/2yr old bun a day after surgery.. but he had a mass in his tummy so it was a pretty major procedure

 

[bunbunsdad]

Hi again! I just read your other thread...poor you...that is such an ordeal!! It seems like he is doing ok, so that is good. It also appears that the abscess is on the "exterior" so much easier to access and treat. It is so funny because your little guy looks just like ours...maybe they are related! lol! I found the "critical care" was also an excellent contributor to our bunny's recovery. I gave it to him 6 times a day. The 2nd feeding of the day I would make it a bit more watery so he got some fluids. The vet was surprised he had maintained his weight during that week. Each feeding took about 20 to 30 minutes, but I made sure he took his time and got it all down. When I noticed he was not pooping as much as I would have thought he would be, I pureed some fresh pineapple and mixed it with the critical care and 24 hours later, beautiful poops!
I am glad to hear that your vet did not go straight to surgery...It does not seem like a sure fire cure...Of course, we would do anything for our furry babies, but I really felt I had to second guess the recommendation (for now anyway). I have had many animals over the years and therefore alot of experience with vets....the 1st year we had our oldest dog (who is now 15 and going strong) we found a lump and within 5 minutes the vet said surgery...well it went away! She also had a back problem and the emergency vet wanted to operate that day.....In both instances, we said let us nurse her back to health with some pain medication and natural love and care and she has been fine. Our 2nd dog had a lump and we felt suspicious of it...the vet wanted to operate right away...we decided to get a 2nd opinion and sure enough the 2nd vet said to take a sample 1st...It ended up being cancer, so we brought her to the best cancer vet to get operated...she is 14 and still going strong (as a matter of fact, she just won "oldest youngest looking dog" at a dog show...lol)! Our 3rd dog had an issue with his tail...(they call it happy tail!) and the vet we brought him too said the only solution was to amputate...I was like what??? Instead we got some corthivet and treated it ourselves (google is amazing)...2 years later, he is just fine with no issues. I know that this is a bunny forum, but you can now see why I am a bit hesitant about saying yes to operate at the 1st sign of an issue. Anisthetic is hard on humans, so on animals, especially little ones it must be even harder.
Thank you again for your responses and sharing your story - it is very helpful information! I will be following your thread to see how he progresses and also take a look at the Three Musketeers blog (awesome!!). I have attached a pic of BunBun trying to read this message

 

[bunbunsdad]

Awe, I am so sorry to hear about your loss!! It is a hard decision...for a big mass like that in his tummy, it sounds like you would not have too much of a choice.
Thank you for your response...I love hearing from other bunny owners

 

[Chrisdoc]

Oh he's adorable, yes they are look alikes. My vet said that she's never keen to operate while there are other options and I do agree. I would only agree if I really thought there was no hope with any other treatment. It's tough for him but he is doing so well and I am sure he will come through this Ok. I really do think that having different opinions put forward on here is a great help in helping to decide what is right for your bun. I am so glad that I came across this site, it has been invaluable.

 

[bunbunsdad]

Hi Everyone!
Just thought I would update you all on BunBun in case it helps anyone experiencing a similar situation.
Since my last post, BunBun has been getting his teeth trimmed regularly. I thought this was the best option vs. putting him through an operation. This guy is pretty healthy as his teeth grow so quick! I was taking him every 3-4 weeks. The cost for this is $70.00 CAD an appointment....so a little pricey to say the least (but the standard here in Ontario, Canada).
BunBun is such a good little bunny, but it was getting to be a struggle for our vet. His bottom tooth grew so rapidly as well and the pulp was very high, therefore it could not be cut down very short without bleeding.
My vet strongly recommended that we get them removed. The downside was that she does not perform such a surgery. I therefore searched for months for a vet that I could trust, that was local. Several that I contacted here in Ottawa had an estimated cost of $2000.00 fort he procedure. I found that quite high given I have read on several forums that other bunny owners paid in the hundreds. I also have several other pets and have owned animals all my life and know what I have paid for surgery for my dogs (I sent my dog to the number one cancer specialist for surgery and he did not charge that much!). In my search I finally stumbled across a bunny surgeon in Ottawa and decided to book his appointment immediately (they were friendly, knowledgeable and very reasonably priced).

I cannot say enough amazing things about Dr. Mobarak and his team. He even gave me his cell phone # in case anything happens after hours. He did an extremely thorough job, took xrays and sent me home with alot of antibiotics and pain meds to ensure BunBun's comfort. He told me if they grow back (which can happen), not to worry and come back and see him.
BunBun had his operation 5 days ago and is pretty much back to his normal self! He is eating, drinking and his digestive system is back on track.
I syringe fed him Critical Care and water the first day. I noticed he was not pooping, so therefore blended him some pure pineapple and mixed it with the critical care and by the next day he was pooping again! Such a relief for any bunny owner LOL. He is now eating his kibble and salad and drinking.
I will keep up his meds for a week, but I must say, it is a relief to know he is on the path to recovery.
Do I regret not doing it sooner? No...as a pet owner, you have to go with your gut on what is best for your pet.
If I had done it sooner, I may not have found such a great vet either.

I hope this post helps in making your decision on what to do in the case of a bunny malocclusion. I never imagined this when we adopted BunBun, but he did not ask for it and it is up to us to do what we can to help him. Many people that get bunnies do not realize the responsibility that comes with owning a rabbit -- they are sensitive little animals that require alot of love and attention.

 

[Thumperina]

you can at least get the second opinion