The lavish lives of Lopsy and Lulu

[crystal]

I tried another bonding session this arvo. I'm feeling discouraged. Despite a bit pile of tasty grass, they lasted bairly five minutes and things started to get aggressive. I don't really know what's going on or why, which is the worst part. I guess we are sort of starting again with them. except they will sit side by side and eat no problems, which surely a new couple wouldn't do...?

I have seen Lopsy sniffing Lulu's bottom before, but today Lulu seemed like she was sniffing Lopsy's bottom. I'm not sure if that was part of the problem. I'm not even sure what else to say. I'm guessing that if I asked for advice, what I would be told is to try stressing them somehow. I think I might try to give them time out where they can see each other but not in together... cos they haven't been living next to each other for a while just because of space.

Encouragement appreciated... :expressionless

 

[SnowyShiloh]

:hugsquish: Bonding is hard and if you're like me, you keep wondering if you're doing it wrong! What exactly are they doing that's aggressive? As far as I understand, as long as they aren't fighting, whatever they do is okay and part of working out their relationship. If it makes you feel any better, Phoebs and Nedders were sitting next to each other and eating on the first day. Over a week later (and many bonding sessions later), they're still pretty much ignoring each other. So them eating together isn't necessarily a sign that they're comfortable with each other. Now that Lopsy's been neutered, his smell is totally different and he's practically a different bun as far as Miss Lulu is concerned.

We will get through bonding our bunnies!

 

[crystal]

It happens so quickly that I'm not sure why, but they seem to start nipping and circling. It's the circling that worries me. I don't think it's super aggressive, not a full on fight, but I still worry that one of them will get hurt. I think it's Lulu who has gone to nip Lopsy, but maybe it's both ways it's hard to tell. Before Lopsy was neutered though, Lulu was very submissive so it's a bit unexpected.

I think the mistake I might have made is not having them next to each other in their cages for the past 6 weeks after Lopsy's neuter. I hadn't thought about him having a totally different smell now. So I guess they just need to see a lot more of each other...? It's strange cos it still seems like they trust each other in some ways. I wonder whether it's about who is dominant. When Lopsy was mounting her regularly, he was boss. Now top spot is open again. I don't think he mounted her once today.

What do you suggest that I do with them?

 

[SnowyShiloh]

Crystal, I'm VERY new to bonding myself, you should probably make a thread over in the Nutrition and Behavior forum To me it sounds like they're trying to figure out who will be the dominant one. Lulu must have known that Lopsy wasn't neutered before and she thought he was dominant, but now that he's been fixed, maybe he doesn't "smell" or seem as dominant anymore so she's thinking maybe she'll try to be the dominant one?

What I can suggest is to put their cages so they can see each other and swap their cages every night. Phoebe Mae and Ned have been trading cages every night so they get used to each others scent and hopefully feel less territorial. The other thing to do would be to stress them out when they're together. We've been taking ours on car rides, but apparently you can accomplish the same thing with a bin on top of a washing machine or even putting them in a bin and kind of rocking it back and forth.

Where are you having their bonding sessions? Is it in neutral territory (a place neither of them goes and has claimed)? You could try having bonding sessions in the bath tub if they don't normally go there, bunnies don't usually like the slippery sides.

Good luck and keep your blog updated with bonding progress!

 

[fuzz16]

are their cages next to eachother now? ive been super lucky in the way mine are immediate bondings, and who doesnt bond never has a chance. -.-

hopefully someone with more experiance will comment. keep us updated

 

[SOOOSKA]

Hi Crystal,

Great blog. You have two very adorable bunnies. I`m no help in the bonding area that`s for sure. As you can see I have 2 single bunnies and 2 bonded pairs all living in different rooms. lol

Have you tried car ridesÉ Many people on RO suggest that.

Looking forward to many stories and pictures of your babies.

Susan

 

[crystal]

Thanks Shiloh, Brenda and Susan for dropping by

Yeah I suspect something like you said, Shiloh. Before there was no contest but now Lulu is in with a chance... so I guess my job is to help them work it out without one of them being hurt.

I was feeling discouraged at first, but when I thought about it as if these two sessions were the very first then they are actually doing very well. There was a little humping in the first but not the second session. and only a little aggression.

I have been swapping their cages for the last week or so. I don't have them next to each other because I have one in a bigger cage in my room (parents don't want it in the lounge room) and the other cage in the hall. I might need to come up with a way that they can be next to each other, I guess I could use the x pen next to the cage in my room and have one in each... I'll just have to get to my bed from the other side!

I have done the last two sessions in a corner of the lounge room. Before Lopsy was neutered this was fine, but maybe it's not neutral enough. They both spend time in here, so I will try somewhere else. Because of Lopsy's funny legs, if I use the bath I have to put a towel or something down. I don't like the car idea, I know lots of people recommend it but I'd much rather the washing machine thing. I might also try that sometime, but it's not as though they have any problems with sitting side by side...

ah gosh I am typing a lot! sorry guys. I'm going out for lunch soon but then I plan to come back and do a bonding session or have them close to each other or something. yes... it's morning here

 

[fuzz16]

have you tried readin up on house rabbits society bonding tricks and tips?

but try stressing them out...car rides...take them in the backyard and sprinkle water on them with the hose maybe...

 

[crystal]

I've read different articles over the last year. not sure about the house rabbits society exactly... I'll try track it down.

I suppose I've really done the opposite to the stressing idea. Two days ago and also today I have had them out next to each other in separate cages. The other day was only for 40 minutes (length of gilmore girls episode haha) but today they have been there 3-4 hours while I have been cooking. At the start they seemed a bit weary, particularly Lulu didn't seem relaxed. Then a while later she was lying down in the litter box. now they are both lying down looking at each other, about a foot apart. Before Lulu flopped down in front of Lopsy so I think she must be feeling comfortable
They have also been having a feast of scraps from my vegie soup- celery, carrot, parsley etc. Rather than stressing them, they get to see each other and smell each other while doing what they love - eating! I think I'll do this a few more times and then put them together again in a neutral place.

In other news, I was asked on the weekend to be a god mother! My friend's son, Archie, is 9 months old and I have babysat him quite a few times. It's such an honour to be asked! And of course I said yes. His dedication is this Sunday at our church

 

[fuzz16]

thats so wonderful that you get to be a god mother. so lucky my friend has talked about makin me a godmother, i would be super happy if she did

 

[crystal]

I slept at a friend's house last night. I went at dinner time and left the bunnies with hay and pellets, and got home this morning. Anyway I was amused by what I found when I got home...

Somehow during the night Lulu has managed to get the whole towel into her litter box. When I got home she was lying in the litter box on the towel looking very comfortable. How she got the whole towel neatly into the litter box I will probably never know!

 

[joeyC19]

Haha thats very funny. I love it when I clean the cage and then watch the buns rearrange it again the way they want it. Obviously Lulu thought that the towel went there. lol

 

[crystal]

My bunnies have been living next to each other for a few weeks now, and I swap their cages over every now and then. I didn't try any dates for a while because I was going away for a bit and didn't want to lose the momentum while I was away and didn't have enough time for them to bond before I went.

So anyway yesterday and today I have had them out together in half of the living room which is quite a big space. It seems to be working okay for them, because Lopsy is slower than the average rabbit so I'm still able to get to them and they're not very aggressive anyway.

For the most part, in this last session, it seems like Lopsy is slowly pursuing Lulu. She seems to hop into his line of site but remains just out of reach until they both put their heads down together. Neither one is grooming yet though. I'm not sure if Lopsy is more dominant because he is (slowly) chasing, or if he is submissive because he is following haha my gut instinct is that he is dominant but they both want to be groomed? and they are both stubborn?

There is a small amount of nipping but it doesn't seem to be serious. I make loud noises (of panic) and they go their separate ways. they are mostly fairly good though, will eat together and sit very close while I stroke them.

I'm not going to placement this week because my supervisor is away, so I have plenty of time at home. I plan to do another date again this evening. and hopefully once or twice a day for the rest of the week. Please keep me accountable to doing that! I do want bonded bunnies but the dating makes me so nervous!

 

[crystal]

Very long rabbit date this arvo, two hours and ten minutes!

I will try to recall what happened as best as I can... The first half hour was fairly uneventful. They were both doing some clumsy binkies, like they were both excited and nervous to be together haha. after about 45 minutes, they were both eating some pellets and then Lulu lay down right there while Lopsy kept eating. She lay with her legs straight out straight. This was pretty significant for her because she will usually only lie down next to a wall where she feels safe, but I guess she felt safe with Lopsy. Then around the hour mark, Lulu lay down and Lopsy came over and lay near her, their heads were near each other. They lay like this for about 5 minutes! They keep pushing their head into the other ones head haha I call this the head lock. This happens most freqently. Neither of them will groom at this stage.

When they were lying together, I thought yes they have made great progress. What happened next surprised me though - Lulu mounted Lopsy a few times fairly close together after they got up from lying near each other. This is the very first time I have ever seen Lulu mount him! And she did it at least 5 times I think. He wasn't bothered by it though really, I just moved her off after a few seconds. So it seems like she is wanting to be dominant, am I right? Lopsy really is a different eeer "man" since he was desexed. He has mounted only a few times since.

Gosh I am rambling a lot. well done to anyone who has got this far. During the second half, they seemed more relaxed and they lay sometimes together with me stroking them saying "won't one of you just groom the other", and sometimes they lay a few feet apart.

Umm think that's about it for what I remember now. I hope I didn't do the wrong thing by separating them after over 2 hours, but I do need to do some other things this arvo haha. tomorrow we will go again and see what happens.

I feel like they're finally getting somewhere. it really wasn't that hard, I just had to be a bit more brave. and stop making excuses. today there wasn't really any signs of nipping, so that is also a massive plus side.

well done to anyone who read this far. feel free to make any comments about what you think from what I have described.. if there is anyone out there!

 

[fuzz16]

wow that is a long session...my longest are about 20 minutes right now! lol

always seems like males are super laid back!!!

and i beleive its right to seperate them, they can still interact through a cage, but if your not gonna be there to watch then ya its best

but im glad their getting better!! i know ill be super excited for the day there is no more nippin lol

 

[crystal]

Just finished another session, two hours ten minutes again. This time Lulu started the humping early on. The first two times Lopsy kept eating haha but then after a few more times he got fed up and gave her a leave me alone noise and I think I saw teeth. It all happened quickly! It all went up hill from there though, considering that start.

Again they did some lying apart, and some lying next to each other sometimes while I stroked them. Main issue is they won't groom! They both try to put their head lower, and often put their head under each other. I did manipulate getting Lopsy to groom Lulu slightly by putting a few drops of water onto her head from the water bottle haha but it didn't continue.

I found it very cute when they were lying top to tail next to each other. Lulu stayed very still and Lopsy groomed himself a bit. Lopsy kept moving up so they went from heads near each other, to bodies still side by side with faces at opposite ends. not sure if I can quite describe it properly but it was very cute!

 

[fuzz16]

id say time, some rabbits take a long time, others not. try stick treats on the other bunnys back. lol.

sounds like maybe lopsy is wanting to be groomed but lulu just isnt givin in yet

 

[crystal]

The buns had two hours together a few days, and then two and a half hours on Saturday. I was out so much yesterday I didn't get to let them out together. I'm going to give them some more time soon and hopefully the day gap won't send them backwards at all...

They were doing very well together on Friday and Saturday, very little mounting, no nipping, lying together sometimes. Still no grooming! They are both too stubborn to be the first to start I think. Not sure what else to say. I might post some pics later on. They are very cute

 

[fuzz16]

seem to be doing better than me mine are good one day, bad the next. cant wait to see pictures

 

[crystal]

Here are some pics from the last two bonding sessions.