The Hard Knocks School of Breeding Rabbits / Opal Flemish

[BlueGiants]

Color differences too... In the UK, certain colors are only accepted in certain breeds. Germany doesn't recognise a number of our colors, and their standard is very different than ours. (Especially in ear width!).

The description of the British and Flemish differ as well in the UK. The British and the Continental are not recognized by the ARBA in this country. In the past it was typical to try and improve the size and bone of the US Flemish by importing Continentals. Butfrom a showing/breed standard viewpoint, it took many generations to bring the color back to meetour written standard.

 

[Maukin]

Of the opal in question and his sandy brother, the dam was a sandy and the sire a steel. The kits were a mix of opal, sandy and dark sandy. I'm not sure what her gentics were up the line and at the time, I was too ignorant to ask, or know the right questions in the first place.

I was advised to "pick a color and stick to it." I've chosen sandy, which is by far the most popular and has a good solid background. I figured this:

1. Iam not experienced enough to start trying to breed a new color and fight to get it recognized. Opal comes from a goulash of colors mixed together and though you might get a few of that color in a litter, my opinion is that it would be hard to try and breed it true. It would be like trying to get the color red after you mixed it with blue, purple, brown and green. There would be many wasted animals and no guarantee that the color would ever be recognized after all the hard work.

2. My research shows that there are many in the NFGBA who are pretty high up who would fight like mad. And I have better things to do, like enjoy my farm and my rabbits. Paperwork anddiplomacy is for paperpushers and diplomats. I am neither. I'm a teacher, and I push enough paper and go through enough hassle in a day.

Fortunately, I'm not in deep enough over my head to not correct the situation quickly and learn from it.

 

[gentle giants]

pamnock wrote:

okiron wrote:

gentle giants wrote:

I have a question for you, if you don't mind, Maukin. Would you mind posting pics of your bucks, the non-showable ones? You said yours are opal? I have to say, I have never heard of/seen an opal Flemish.

I still don't get when the parents, grandparents and great-grandparents are all blues and blacks, how Teeny and Lilith came out golden fawns (though they do have blue tints and parts on them) and they had one white in the litter as well.

Opal would not be unusual in Flemish because it's a dilute (blue)Sandy. The genetics are in the gene pools.

Fawn out of blue x black isn't possible because neither blue nor black have the dominant agouti gene of the fawn. These "impossibilities" often come about due to a misidentification of the actual color or improper recording of breeding records.

Pam

Ok. Must be just something I haven't happened to stumble across then, blues are also very rare in my area. Makes sense now though, since you brought up the dilute factor, that hadn't even occurred to me.

 

[Maukin]

I'm trying to see if gentle giants will help me out posting pictures of this buck so ya'll can see the color I'm talkin' about.

 

[Bramblerose]

If I wanted to try and make an Opal Flemish I'd breed a Blue to a Sandy, then take the resulting Sandy kits and cross them back to Blue, or each other- and the result could be some Opalish kits. Then I'd take those 'Opals' and cross them to each other, hoping to improve undercolor and so forth, really a large undertaking, and probably fruitless, as the Flemish community would not be amused. Color crossing is not well looked upon among the Flemish breeders, and they aren't keen on 'new colors'. I could in theory create a 'Squirrel' the same way, using Light Grays and Blues. I think that the British and Continental Giants have larger heads and a not so mandolin body type, and they do reconize Opals. They also reconize BEW's which makes my lil' heart go pitter-pat

 

[gentle giants]

Here are pics of Maukin's opal Flemish, I'm posting them for her while she gets the hang of Photobucket.

 

[TinysMom]

Since the thread kinda got hijacked to talking about opal flemish - I added on to the title to reflect that so that when folks say months from now "I know I remember reading a thread about opal flemish..." - they'll be able to find it easier.

I'm also hoping some other breeders will share their experiences and how they prepared to be breeders or some of the lessons they've learned too...

Peg

 

[polly]

Just whil eyou have been talking about the differences between th edifferent style giants from what i have noticed at the uk shows ( and i haven't seen any flemmish yet) between the brittish and the conti's the Brittish giants have smaller ears than the conti's and flemmish

 

[polly]

So i have only been breeding a couple of years though i have had rabbits as pets for 8 years now.

I had read a few books about "why are you breeding" before i got into it and did have a really good think. I wanted to breed because a lot of people were giving up breeding nethies because lops were more popular and becauseof the netherlands attitude. I was looking for a blue otter nethie and couldnt find one anywhere.and it prompted me and my husband to take teh decision to breed netherlands. To be honest i wish i had found a forum first and realised how hard they can be to breed.

The first year was a nightmare 1 i didnt become BRC registered and tried to find the stock myself. My blue otter turned out to be a blue fox. i ended up with a few smokes and an opal in my shed They wern't great looking. I didnt have the knowledge i now have of the breed and just how they should look. We went through long labours stuck kits 2 emergency c sections resulting in spays and 1 dead rabbit that died after giving birth. It was hard, so hard and heart breaking that i considered giving up very seriously

Some of the problems i had were after i joined here and turned to Peg for a bit of help with the odd pm. She was really good and started to help me more with the genetics even helping me to get genetic books fromthe statesas i didn't know where to get them over here. I have also utilised Pam's vast knowledge and would like to give them both a big thankyou

i joined the BRC under Bruce's name and met a few good breeders up here that were helpful but not until i went to them for a showbuck did they really take us seriously. And so we got Jin. nowhere in my plan of breeding blue netherlands did a chinchilla colour fit in ( i know you class this colour different in the states) but it got us out to the shows and meeting people. I also found a couple of good UK forums and frrom there have met a lot of other breeders who have been really helpful i have been down to Wales and england for rabbits to enhance what i have.

I have just renewed our subs and joined myself and got our stud name to show under which is Cinabun stud after my first rabbit Dido who was called cinabun more than dido

Nowwe have made friends at the shows and steward at every opportunity so we can pick peoples brains and learn as much as we canIts amazing how friendly and helpful they can be. I have a friend who is a judge and is a fantastic help. I am also hoping this year to learn the books at the shows so i can get on the tables but not steward as i have problems with my hands and wrists. We have picked up so much knowledge in this last year and i am really looking forward to getting back to the shows this year and learning more. We tend to steward other tables too so we can learn about the other breeds too.

So we have gone from breeding to help keeep the breed going to breeding to show and improve the breed as well. I am the first to admit we still have a few colours in my shed but weare getting closer toour goal.

This year is exciting as it will be the first year of our babies going through to show with the litter i have just had being the first and the more we get on the show tables and the more comments we get the more we will learn

We work well as a team. Bruce tends to be the bunny MOT guy and i do all the legwork and find out what to breed to get the best colours out of it and type!! i arrange all the shows and we go together. he does all the claw cutting and teeth checking and grooming and show prep.

At this pint we are slowly working uphill. I was told that i would never win with blue rabbits as their colour is so hard and hey my blues and blacks are giving me sables But that means i just gotta work harder and i will prove them wrong in the end!!

 

[Maukin]

Just as a side note since Myra was so kind to post my pictures, (Thank you!) This guy is for sale. He's a friendly dude, five months old,who thinks with his belly and will climb all over you without shame if you have a raisen or an apple. He's not one for being picked up, but is a wonderful companion.

I'll be at the Lebanon Show and would be happy to bring him to somone who will make me an offer for him and give him a good home (and preferably neuter him).

PM me if you're interested.

Also, see the brown highlights on his feet and the back of his neck? That's the opal coming through and what will DQ him.

 

[BlueGiants]

polly wrote:

I was told that i would never win with blue rabbits as their colour is so hard and hey my blues and blacks are giving me sables But that means i just gotta work harder and i will prove them wrong in the end!!

Oh my goodness! I was told the same thing about my blue Flemish (almost 10 years ago!) It just made me work harder.... Don't give up! I still haven't won a Best in Show, but I have taken a few Best of Breeds (which means my blues beat out a lot more popular colors!). Kudo's to you for working on a rare variety!

 

[maherwoman]

Wow...this is so neat, reading everyone's stories, and how they got started, and what they've learned. Sounds like each person had to make a few blunders before really understanding what to do in the end. But, hey, that's what makes us stronger, right?

I really admire you guys for all you do, and all the patience and love you put into making such beautiful rabbits!

Hugs!

Rosie*

 

[polly]

Thanks Blue giants

Emily, one of my best friends made my avatar for me as i am useless at them. She did an amazing job :biggrin2: