Snowy has just been spayed

[celineki]

snowy has just been spayed yesterday morning. the vet said it went very well and the whole surgery was done in around 20mins.

i brought her home yesterday evening. put her back to her cage and she is just huddling into a corner of her cage. i tried to feed her some herbs and vegetables.. she had a strawberry and a tiny bit of parsley, 1or 2 pellets and a bit of orchard grass hay.. and she seems disinterested, even with her favourite brocolli. she does get a tiny bit excited over the papaya tablet though. i tried not to fuss over her, but she has been sitting in the same position for hours, and i heard her grinding her teeth..

gave her a syringe of painkiller (meloxicam 1.5mg/ml) this morning at 7am. tried to get her to eat something, but she is not interested at all. i went to check on her several times, she actually moved abit and now is in the first level of her cage (she was huddled up in the second level all night). she ate 2 stalks of vegetable, a bit of parsely, some orchard grass and of cos, her papaya tablet. but she is still huddled up, just resting in her cage. not even trying to come out of her cage where in the past she sprints right out when i open the door. she did not have any water at all (i put a bowl and water bottle inside the cage).

is this normal? should i call the vet? i still have a syringe of painkiller for tomorrow. she pooped a tiny bit.. though they seem a bit mushy, i guessed thats normal. oh, and she is grooming herself (face, ears, legs and stomach!) often. i tried to see whether she is licking her stitches but i couldnt be sure.. seems to be eating her poops.. is this normal behaviour for post-surgical rabbits? i've read numerous websites on post-surgical care, i just wanted to be sure snowy is alright.

 

[dquesnel]

It does sound like she is in pain at the moment. It sounds like the procedure was done over 24hours ago- is this correct? Some rabbits have a hard time dealing with the pain after a spay and just take longer to recover. It sounds like she has had *some* food, so she hasn't shut down but what does concern me is the lack of drinking.

Actually to be honest, from you description she seems to be in more discomfort than is normal. The spay was likely done well, but every rabbit has a different threshold for pain. I think she may need a different pain medication, Buprenex would be great or even Tramadol tend to be stronger, better pain meds if the metacam doesn't seem to be doing much. I would call the vet in the morning and update them- as well as ask for either of these meds since it does sound like she is in some considerable pain.

If you are still up tonight to read this, can you check out her incision site to see how it looks? Spays should be looked at daily- the state of them can change pretty quick. Also, it would be a great idea to try and syringe as much water into her right now as she will let you do. She could be dehyrated and the water would really help make a difference in how she feels.

That is all I can recommend for now, until tomorrow when you can potentially get her into the vet if she needs it.

 

[celineki]

tried to syringe some water into her.. but she is having none of it.. struggled and jump right off.. and ran right off (or rather walked) to a corner out of reach.. left some pretty scratches on my hand.. did managed to look at her incision site, looks pretty good to me.

she had diarrhea just now... looks like melted chocolate.. :shock:

i called the vet but the assistant told me to keep a close look at snowy and called them back tomorrow morning if things have not changed..

should i be worried?:expressionless

 

[dquesnel]

I don't want you to be absolutely stressed out- but yes I would be worried. Pain + spay + diarrhea doesn't sound great right now. If she is having diarrhea she is losing more hydration too.

Can you try wrapping her in a bunny burrito with a towel? That way she cannot kick or jump out. I know it is stressful, but I am thinking the advantages of getting some water into her is better than the potential stress.

Where are you located/ what time is it where you are now? If a vet is open I wouldn't hesitate to bring her in. If it is nighttime where you are now, I would be prepared to bring her in to see the vet in the morning. Until then all you can do is watch how she is. I would wait to give her the pain meds she is due for in the a.m, since the vet will probably re-evaluate what she needs at that point and give her something else. The vets office should realize this is considered an emergency with a rabbit (diarrhea, not eating well + in pain) so they should make space for her early in the morning. Good luck- keep an eye on her for now, see if you can try again with water, keep us updated!

 

[Pipp]

That's not a lot of Meloxicam/Metacam, my vet usually gives a 'kick start' dose, than it goes back down...

NB EDIT: Taking out the dosage, due to wrong decimals (WHICH IS WHY A VET SHOULD ALWAYS BE CONSULTED (and why I shouldn't be typing important stuff without being able to see!)

Edit again - Pipp gets anywhere from .18 to .25 for her regular doses, so I'm assuming its the same suspension, your vet is just more conservative. (The latter makes her dopey, I prefer around .2). She's 2.7 lbs.

If she's nibbling and grooming, she's not critical, although I agree that especially with the bit of diarrhea (it was just a bit, right?) and the pain meds, she really needs hydration. If a vet visit is easy for you (you don't have your location listed, are you in the UK? Is there a vet open?)a shot of pain meds and a sub q infusion to hydrate her won't hurt.

You don't want to struggle with her much given the incision.

You said the bowl was empty, I'm not clear if she drank the water?

And how much diarrhea, and were there regular poops as well?

sas :?

 

[celineki]

i will try again to syringe some water in her... she is now resting in a corner under the tv console..

i'm from singapore.. its now 5 plus in the afternoon.. clinics are closed.. should be open from 10am tomorrow.. i'm scheduled to give her the pain meds tomorrow at 7am. she is still eating a little bit of hay when offered to her.. wont eat herself though.. i've been checking on her every few minutes, stressing out my family. lol..

will update again.. thanks!

 

[celineki]

i just checked the pain meds.. its actually only 0.16 Mls (1.5mg/ml, so its only 0.24??) i'm not too sure about how to calculate that.. :shock:

yeah, just a bit of diarrhea.. and she was sitting on it. wouldnt move.. i had to carry her away to clean it.. the vet clinic is just 30 - 40 mins away, but its closed now..

the bowl was full, she did not drink the water at all.. but i did changed the water twice today to make sure the water's fresh.. there were a bit of regular poops as well, some smaller than usual, some clumped together, some softer.. and she did pee, though she did not drink any water since yesterday .. :shock:

 

[ra7751]

Hi,

Couple of things...20 minutes for a spay? That is unusually fast. Next, meloxicam (metacam) is better than nothing but totally insufficient pain management after a spay. As far as dosing the meloxicam, if you could send me her weight I can calculate the dosing for you. Taking into consideration the dosing of meloxicam and the concentration of the drug, the dosing is appropriate for a rabbit of 2.4kg (5.3 pounds). It is critical to maintain hydration with this drug. You should ask your vet for a narcotic aspect....Buprenorphine is the best for rabbits....Tramadol would be an acceptable alternative. Did you withhold food prior to surgery? Do you know if they gave a large amount of fluids during surgery? If the answer is yes to either of these, that is what is causing the upset GI.

At this point, my suggestion is to get more appropriate pain control. Do not sweat the food....we have had rabbits not eat for overa week. But offer a buffet of her favorite foods....pellets, maybe some alfalfa hay and appropriate greens. Dandelions are popular around here but you may have to choose basedon what you have available. Hydration before nutrition....ask your vet to teach you to administer fluids....you need to know how to do and when to do it. Since her GI is a bit upset, if you can find a probiotic to help support the gut, it would be beneficial. I use a product called Bene-Bac, but again, you may have to make do with what you have locally. Non-dairy Lactobacillis Acidophilus will do in a pinch. This isn't the exact bacteria in the gut but it does support the pH which will help maintain a favorable envirionment for the repopulation of beneficial bacteria. And keep calm....she will be able to sense your distress and it will cause stress in her.

A side note about Meloxicam (Metacam). This drug is usually administered with a "loading dose" to speed it's entry into the system. This dose is twice the standard dosing. The loading dose is a one time dose. This drug is usually dosed at standard protocolonce a day. It now comes in three concentrations (in the US anyway). The most common concentrations used in small mammalsare .5mg/ml and 1.5mg/ml. CAUTION:If you have acquired this drug without going thru a vet...make sure you know how to dose it. Decimal points are everything. And if yougive thedosingthat has been calculated for the .5 concentration but you have the 1.5 concentration....you have given triplethe proper dose....and that will damage the liver. It also comes in an injectable used in larger animals at a concentration of 5mg/ml. This drug is brutal on the kidneys and liver (and all NSAIDs are rough on these organs in all species including humans....think Tylenol). It is so important that it be properly dosed and for a limited time. Proper hydration will help protect the kidneys and liver. This drug should not be used long term except under the advice of a vet and then the liver and kidney values should be charted.

Randy

 

[celineki]

Updates--

She had a little bit of water.. around 4ml or slighty more.. thats all she could take from me.. i just had to put the syringe in front of her a couple of times.. seems like she took it out of annoyance..

is it normal for her to groom so much?? she's grooming herself more than she does in a week.. lol. she lick her stitches too.. i checked, it still look ok.. saw her digging my marble floor.. and laying on it for a while.. guess she is feeling just a tiny bit better.. nibbled on some hay and pellets too.

 

[ra7751]

I would say those are good signs. Keep in mind that leafy greens like romaine lettuce will help hydration (in moderation of course). If you have a heating pad, a little heat for her to lie on might be helpful.....lowest setting and not direct contact with the pad. If you do this, monitor closely as the pad will get very hot even on lowest setting. Bu try to get some more aggressive pain meds if possible. I usually give narcotics fur 3-5 days post op for spays.

Randy

 

[celineki]

Hi Randy,

Snowy is 5 1/2 months old.. i do not know her weight as i don't have a weighing machine at home. will ask the vet tomorrow. as for the food, she did not have any 2 hours before the surgery.

As for the Meloxicam, the vet prescribed 2 syringe for Snowy.. each syringe is 0.16 ml and i just had to feed her the whole syringe.

i will call the vet tomorrow.. and ask her about Bene-Bac and Lactobacillis Acidophilus? :? i have no idea what these are .. i hope my vet knows..

Tthe most important thing now is to lessen her pain and get her hydrated right?? She takes what is offered to her like a baby, but refused to move about... so i'm feeding her right now.. she takes water from the bottle or syringe when i placed them in front of her month.. :biggrin2:

Thanks so much for your reply.. i hope to get the meds from the vet tomorrow first thing in the morning.. Thanks again!

 

[ra7751]

The food thing is OK. I do remove pellets about 2 hours prior to surgery but I do not remove the hay or water.

She will need more aggressive pain meds for more than 2 days. Meloxicam is an NSAID....it's a anti-inflammatory in the same family of drugs as Tylenol, Motrin or aspirin. A spay is a major surgery. I try to think of it as would I want Tylenol following removal of major body organs. I would want more aggressive stuff...narcotics.

The Bene-Bac and LA are probiotics. They help to support the digestive system in times of stress. You know when you take an antibiotic and get a bit of an upset stomach? Many doctors will tell you to eat yogurt which has active bacteria cultures to help support your digestive system. The Bene-Bac or LA will do the same thing with your rabbit....DO NOT give your rabbit yogurt. Do you have Pedialyte or something similar there? Call a human medical clinic and ask them. It is a rehydrating formula used in human infants. It contains valuable electrolytes. See if you can find some. The human infant formula does not contain sugar...and that is good for your rabbit.

Hydration and pain management would be the best course of action. Hand feed her that water. Offer her food, if she eats...that is good. As far as pain control....try the heating pad. You may see suggestions on using other drugs such as Motrin or aspirin. DO NOT use them. Certain NSAIDs are prone to causing gastric ulcers in a compromised gut. And aspirin is a blood thinner and should not be used post-op. Remember the rule of thimb.......hydration before nutrition.

Randy

 

[celineki]

Updates -->

Snowy seems to be doing fine now. Gave her the pain meds this morning.. she took it, and took whatever vegetables i gave her, plus a healthy bit of pellets and hay.. we did fed her quite a bit of water yesterday, took us quite a while.. hydration before nutrition! :biggrin2:

she is more active now, nosing about around the house.. grooming, digging, flopping on the floor, and i think i saw her tried to do a few binkies.. :shock:

as she is doing so much better this morning, the doctor suggests to monitor her closely, she is against more prescription for snowy.. at least snowy dosent seems in pain right now, she actually looks more happy and relax..

Thanks everyone for your help.

 

[ra7751]

That is good news. Usually if you only have Metacam, the first 48-72 hours post op are the worst. That is why I try to get the word out to people to ask questions and have the post-op pain meds (narcotics) agreed upon prior to surgery.

I would really suggest not letting her have too much free space. It is very easy to pull a suture. We don't have external sutures since we do laser for spays. But we still keep them confined with no jumping or running for about a week post-op.

Keep us posted.

Randy

 

[Haley]

Im so glad to hear shes feeling better! The first 24-28 hours they are usually pretty lethargic and just want to sit in one spot. They will usually begin to nibble some food my the end of the first 24 hours and some of the poop is sometimes a little mushy at first.

As Randy mentioned, I would be more conservative with her run time. I noticed you said something about her being on a second level. If possible, I would block off the upper levels of her cage for at least the next day or two. I always limit mine to one level for at least 2-3 days after surgery. And I dont let them out very much within the first 5 days or so, just because sometimes they can get a little brave (especially if theyre on painkillers) and you dont want her injuring herself while attempting binky or something.

I would keep an eye on her to be sure she's still eating and pooping, but sounds like youre in the clear Keep us posted!

 

[celineki]

I normally let her have free roam of the house for 4 hours every day when i'm back from work.. is that too much for her right now?

she does use the ramp to go to the second level from time to time though she prefers to jump right up.. but the cage is not too big actually, just 62cm in height.

one thing i noticed is how her litter habit changed tremendously after the spay.. she used to poop and pee all over the house... now she does it in the toilet only (not in her litter pan in her cage, trying to train that ).

Oh, her appetite is back to normal now.. :biggrin2: but still not drinking too much water. i'm going to mix some apple juice in her water tonight to get her to drink more. Poop is also back to the normal size, shape and colour!

Thanks!! :dude: